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CK2 Dev Diary #102 - About that one dead religion...


Greetings.

Well, then... Holy Fury will make Hellenism playable.

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Now, now, let us be clear: there are not going to be any significant changes in the game’s history. Holy Fury will simply offer a couple of ways for a ruler to revive the religion when meeting some strict requirements.
This is no easy choice to make, of course, as doing so will likely make your character reviled by both vassals and neighbors alike and cause your realm to fall into a crippling civil war, but then again, if the cause is just...

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The first opportunity to restore Hellenism will come immediately after restoring the Roman Empire as a Greek or Italian ruler. Your character will receive an event shortly after becoming Emperor where he ponders about reintroducing the old state religion.
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Naturally, if you decide to do so, your Abrahamic vassals will assume that you have gone insane (which, I suppose, may very well be the case...) and likely band together in a large revolt to depose you. Be aware that defeat during this civil war could easily result in a game over: if your heir is also a pagan like you, the leader of the rebellious vassals will take over the entire Empire for himself and away from your heathen dynasty.
On the other hand, if you are successful, you will be able to remain in power and some of your less reluctant vassals might decide that embracing Hellenism is not such a ludicrous proposition after all.

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While not entirely connected to the Hellenic Restoration, I would also like to talk about a few other additions that have been slipped in the old Roman Empire revival event chain.
First of all, remember how the silly Pope tends to fill Rome with Church holdings, making the city not exactly palatable as a feudal capital? Well, worry no more! For now, after restoring the Empire (and provided that Rome has two or more temple holdings), your ruler will be given the chance to emulate Nero and clean up the place a bit. It might seriously hurt Catholic Moral Authority and the local peasants might get really upset about it, but, at the end of the day, aren’t those empty slots worth it?

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A second new little feature you might enjoy is the Roman Renaissance decision, which will become available after ruling the restored Empire for a few years, provided that you have moved the capital to Rome, belong to either Greek or Italian culture and are either Christian or Hellenic. This decision will allow your ruler to reintroduce Roman culture to the Empire. On a practical level, this will allow your realm to become more homogenous, as provinces and rulers belonging to any Latin culture will be very susceptible to switch to the new one and, if you are Hellenic, they will also have a chance to switch both culturally and religiously when embracing the new renaissance. On a roleplaying level, your characters will get swanky new togas to dress in.

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Now, let us go back to Hellenism proper. As I was saying before, there is a second way for a ruler to restore the dead religion, if conquering all of western Europe is too much of a hassle for you.
If you are a Christian, of either Greek or Italian culture, your capital is located in Southern Europe, you completely control one of the Hellenic Holy Sites (Thessalonika, Athens, Rome, Alexandria or Abydos), and you are interested in scholarly matters, or are insane, you will have access to a new decision: Delve into Classics.
If taken, this decision will allow a character to go through a short event chain during which you might become enamored enough with Hellenic mythology to decide to secretly convert to it and start your own Society of Hellenes. Whatever you wish to do after that in order to spread the religion will be up to you.

This is it for what concerns the means to resurrect Hellenism, but what about the religion itself?
You will be pleased to know that it is no longer an empty husk and has now actual flavor and mechanics to it.

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First of all, the religion is no longer pre-reformed: it can make use of the new Pagan Reformation feature just like any other form of paganism (and, as a small aside, you might be happy to know that reforming it as a Greek character will give all the gods their Greek names).
As for how the religion starts, Hellenism is now strictly monogamous (no concubinage), and does not have access to Pagan Subjugation. On the other hand, all Roman and Byzantine events previously restricted to Christians are now also available to Hellenic rulers (chariot races, Imperial Reconquests, etc.). Additionally, Hellenism starts having by default the effects of the Haruspicy and Astrology Doctrines, as well as having access to a new unique mechanic: temple dedication.

As a Hellenic ruler, you will be able to dedicate any temple holding within your realm to one of the twelve main deities of your pantheon. Doing so will give your ruler a temporary boost as well as activate a special building granting a permanent bonus to the holding’s province. These dedicated shrines are permanent, merely becoming inactive when under a ruler of a different religion. The kind of boost that they grant is naturally tied to the god they are being dedicated to.

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Finally, Hellenism has been given access to a few societies, though most of them, like the religion, will need to be recreated by a powerful ruler before becoming active.
Aside from having immediate access to Hermetics, Hellenics can now form the Stoics (a Monastic Order), the Bacchants (a Satanist society), and the Olympian Champions (a Warrior Lodge). Aside from their outlook, the Stoics and Bacchants work exactly as their Christian counterparts, with the one exception being that the Rank 4 County Conversion power of the Stoics will convert a province culturally rather than religiously.

Well then, this should cover most of it.


Note: As we are aware that the inclusion of the Hellenic religion might break immersion for some of our players, we have included a Game Rule to go with it. If the rule is turned off, it will disable the Delve into Classics decision and the Hellenic Revival event chain following the Roman Empire’s restoration, removing any chance of the religion reappearing in a regular game (though note that the religion might still spawn in Random World, depending on what settings you use when generating its history).
 
Either that, or be an Italian Emperor.

Really cool to see the attention being given to the Roman Empire. I may have to re-consider trying to finish my current playthrough aiming to get the SPQR achievement!

On which note... Will the unavailability of the Imperial Conquest CB against titles in the Kingdom of Corsica and Sardinia be fixed in the upcoming patch, by any chance?
 
So if I burn Vatican and also manage to erase catholism as landed religion, does that mean catholic Moral Authority will plummet so low that pope won't be able to declare crusade? becasue in my old games, no matter what I did, Catholic MA always stuck around 20 to 30, which was just enough for 50 crusades for Italy (and this was when only catholics were pope and his holy order drinking buddies).
 
I don’t think anyone but the people who were actually in it really know what it was about

I can tell one thing: scholars know quite a bit, and it doesn't seem that the developers have taken much care to check what's been written on the topic over the past twenty years.
 
"This is the home of a kind deity"

So your saying we can have temples for the Kindly Ones?
 
One thing is sure, though: Paradox developers have no idea whatsoever on what the Bacchic cult was all about.

Whatever it was, it certainly wasn't about Satanism
I can tell one thing: scholars know quite a bit, and it doesn't seem that the developers have taken much care to check what's been written on the topic over the past twenty years.
Not like devil worship or Kali cults are represented with any accuracy. Not sure they meant it to be documentary-accurate to 8th-15th century Bacchus worship in post-Christian Hellenic Europe :p

I suspect that they just might be a gameplay feature.
 
I would love a resurrection of Olympic games event every 4 years will be a sweet flavour
Realm Peace wouldn't work since it's on a 5 year cycle but if the Olympics were revived I'd love to see a negative opinion modifier from all Hellenics for having levies raised at any point during the games (either as liege or vassal).
 
Whatever it was, it certainly wasn't about Satanism

I agree and I think it's a real pity that Dionysus gets forced into the "Satan" role. Kronos (not Saturn, but Kronos) or Typhon would have been better choices.

But well, I guess it works for the context of a theoretical, Medieval revival of Helenism and if you consider that the cult of Dionysus was initially persecuted in Ancient Greece. Maybe the revival decides that Dionysus is too Middle Eastern and too much like that Christ guy to fit into their version of Hellenism, or the revival associates him with Christ, who in turn becomes the "enemy" and drags down Dionysus with him.
 
One little complaint that I have now that I've calmed down a bit. I'm pretty sure that burning down the vatican and all the other christian religious sites in Rome should give you more then a mere 30 piety.

Since you are sort of betraying Christianity here, that should really be 30 gold instead.
 
Just giving people everything they want, huh?

Not that I'm complaining.
I wouldn't say that.
The first opportunity to restore Hellenism will come immediately after restoring the Roman Empire as a Greek or Italian ruler.
Exciting as it sounds it is the opposite of what I see CKii as, an open world RPG that is player choice driven that can lead to many possible scenarios. This blog shows the utter 180 of that concept without having any variances or open ended options other than pigeonholing a player into having to play as 1 specific Empire (with 2 cultures). I say BOO
 
The only thing that would make CK2 way better than this would be introduction of "The Great Old Ones" . I am not talking about paganism *wink*.
 
Awesome, sure, it might not be historical, but non-historical stuff that are well worked out and balanced are actualy very fun to do sometimes :), also, who doesn't want to recreate a Hellenic Roman Empire spawing over most of Europe?

I mean it was historically considered by the Imperial court. Egged on by a Papal ambassador (a secret Hellinist obviously) no less. In our timeline the idea was rejected but the fact that it was seriously considered gives this a historical opening to go in the other direction.
 
Already in the game:
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/cit...l?sid=7d24af235941945142055e95ca7a7e1b#p43931

Pics are from the Game of Thrones mod, but the event is vanilla (different event picture though)

Heh, and you get the opportunity to start worshiping them from owning that copy of the Necronomicon from the observatory event....

I was thinking along more like a "supernatural" cult that perform insane ritual, even more nutty than satanist ones, and grow extra appendage etc...
 
@Silfae
I'd love to see an achievement for bringing hellenism to India, Alexander style.

Honestly I'm surprised there isn't an Alexander Achievement yet for conquering all of india as a greek.

Also have you thought of applying this new god name change to the Germanic Saxons?