• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

CK2 Dev Diary #102 - About that one dead religion...


Greetings.

Well, then... Holy Fury will make Hellenism playable.

20180730093248_1.jpg


Now, now, let us be clear: there are not going to be any significant changes in the game’s history. Holy Fury will simply offer a couple of ways for a ruler to revive the religion when meeting some strict requirements.
This is no easy choice to make, of course, as doing so will likely make your character reviled by both vassals and neighbors alike and cause your realm to fall into a crippling civil war, but then again, if the cause is just...

20180730093553_1.jpg


The first opportunity to restore Hellenism will come immediately after restoring the Roman Empire as a Greek or Italian ruler. Your character will receive an event shortly after becoming Emperor where he ponders about reintroducing the old state religion.
20180730093708_1.jpg


Naturally, if you decide to do so, your Abrahamic vassals will assume that you have gone insane (which, I suppose, may very well be the case...) and likely band together in a large revolt to depose you. Be aware that defeat during this civil war could easily result in a game over: if your heir is also a pagan like you, the leader of the rebellious vassals will take over the entire Empire for himself and away from your heathen dynasty.
On the other hand, if you are successful, you will be able to remain in power and some of your less reluctant vassals might decide that embracing Hellenism is not such a ludicrous proposition after all.

20180730094033_1.jpg


While not entirely connected to the Hellenic Restoration, I would also like to talk about a few other additions that have been slipped in the old Roman Empire revival event chain.
First of all, remember how the silly Pope tends to fill Rome with Church holdings, making the city not exactly palatable as a feudal capital? Well, worry no more! For now, after restoring the Empire (and provided that Rome has two or more temple holdings), your ruler will be given the chance to emulate Nero and clean up the place a bit. It might seriously hurt Catholic Moral Authority and the local peasants might get really upset about it, but, at the end of the day, aren’t those empty slots worth it?

20180730094125_1.jpg


A second new little feature you might enjoy is the Roman Renaissance decision, which will become available after ruling the restored Empire for a few years, provided that you have moved the capital to Rome, belong to either Greek or Italian culture and are either Christian or Hellenic. This decision will allow your ruler to reintroduce Roman culture to the Empire. On a practical level, this will allow your realm to become more homogenous, as provinces and rulers belonging to any Latin culture will be very susceptible to switch to the new one and, if you are Hellenic, they will also have a chance to switch both culturally and religiously when embracing the new renaissance. On a roleplaying level, your characters will get swanky new togas to dress in.

Hellenics5.jpg


Now, let us go back to Hellenism proper. As I was saying before, there is a second way for a ruler to restore the dead religion, if conquering all of western Europe is too much of a hassle for you.
If you are a Christian, of either Greek or Italian culture, your capital is located in Southern Europe, you completely control one of the Hellenic Holy Sites (Thessalonika, Athens, Rome, Alexandria or Abydos), and you are interested in scholarly matters, or are insane, you will have access to a new decision: Delve into Classics.
If taken, this decision will allow a character to go through a short event chain during which you might become enamored enough with Hellenic mythology to decide to secretly convert to it and start your own Society of Hellenes. Whatever you wish to do after that in order to spread the religion will be up to you.

This is it for what concerns the means to resurrect Hellenism, but what about the religion itself?
You will be pleased to know that it is no longer an empty husk and has now actual flavor and mechanics to it.

20180730094306_1.jpg


First of all, the religion is no longer pre-reformed: it can make use of the new Pagan Reformation feature just like any other form of paganism (and, as a small aside, you might be happy to know that reforming it as a Greek character will give all the gods their Greek names).
As for how the religion starts, Hellenism is now strictly monogamous (no concubinage), and does not have access to Pagan Subjugation. On the other hand, all Roman and Byzantine events previously restricted to Christians are now also available to Hellenic rulers (chariot races, Imperial Reconquests, etc.). Additionally, Hellenism starts having by default the effects of the Haruspicy and Astrology Doctrines, as well as having access to a new unique mechanic: temple dedication.

As a Hellenic ruler, you will be able to dedicate any temple holding within your realm to one of the twelve main deities of your pantheon. Doing so will give your ruler a temporary boost as well as activate a special building granting a permanent bonus to the holding’s province. These dedicated shrines are permanent, merely becoming inactive when under a ruler of a different religion. The kind of boost that they grant is naturally tied to the god they are being dedicated to.

20180730094406_1.jpg


Finally, Hellenism has been given access to a few societies, though most of them, like the religion, will need to be recreated by a powerful ruler before becoming active.
Aside from having immediate access to Hermetics, Hellenics can now form the Stoics (a Monastic Order), the Bacchants (a Satanist society), and the Olympian Champions (a Warrior Lodge). Aside from their outlook, the Stoics and Bacchants work exactly as their Christian counterparts, with the one exception being that the Rank 4 County Conversion power of the Stoics will convert a province culturally rather than religiously.

Well then, this should cover most of it.


Note: As we are aware that the inclusion of the Hellenic religion might break immersion for some of our players, we have included a Game Rule to go with it. If the rule is turned off, it will disable the Delve into Classics decision and the Hellenic Revival event chain following the Roman Empire’s restoration, removing any chance of the religion reappearing in a regular game (though note that the religion might still spawn in Random World, depending on what settings you use when generating its history).
 
Problem with Greenland is the Inuit didn't get to eastern north america until around 11-1200 and Greenland by 1300. The Skraelings the Vikings encountered were a now entirely extinct pre-Inuit culture we know very little about.

Okay so I'm gonna break this down:

When the Vikings landed in North America (Greenland, Newfoundland, that whole area that they colonized) they met with 3 distinct indigenous groups, although 4 cultures. These were Native Americans (Innu & Beothuk, possibly in the same language family), Inuits (Thule culture) which only got to the area quite late but not too late to meet the last few generations of the colonists, and the Paleoinuit Dorset culture. This last group was dominant in the area during the classical days of Vinland, essentially between the 9th and the 13th centuries, likely long before as well. While not too much remains of them, testing on naturally mummified remains from Paleoinuit cultures suggests they are particularly closely related to the Chukchi.
 
Way too many people expect that reforming means that you simply go back to the old ways as if nothing has changed. As if the hundreds of years of development and change since then didn't happen. That people will just go back to worshiping the old gods as in the past. That culturally people will suddenly behave like stereotypical Romans. Or that Roman legions will fight the same way as if warfare hasn't changed at all. That's not how this works

Sure they can go back and take on some ancient Roman influences, but you can't erase what happened since then. Anything Roman will be grafted on top of what already exists.
That also goes for something like temples. Maybe some churches will be burned down, but people could also leave the buildings standing and redecorate them. Instead of recreating ancient temples.

Ironically many of those churches were pagan temples to begin with

It's the ciiiiircle of liiiife
 
Regarding the Pontifex Maximus, no, Temporal Religious Heads do not get religious clothing, though you will get something else that might be discussed in the future.

As for the holy sites, that was the pre-existing setup and, looking at it, it felt reasonable enough for me: one in Italy (Rome), one in Egypt (Alexandria), and the remaining three in Greece. I suppose it might have been equally valid to move one from Greece to Sicily, but at this point they are likely going to stay as they are.
I would just like to say thank you very much for taking the time to patiently answer so many questions.
 
You clearly never heard a Sardinian speak their native language :D
It not about sounds, its about things like the syntax and grammar along with more subtle things like vowel and consonant shifts.and from that we can deduce that Sardinian was the earliest romance language and retains the most features of any romance language when compared to Latin
 
Well in the specific case of re-establishing the praetorian guard as a retinue, I would think anyone with an interest in the classics would also have an interest in and access to books about roman history, and all that's required then is be able to notice certain patterns of behavior when reading about the praetorians and the way they tended to ehh..."urge" assorted roman emperors to give up power.
Except the retinue is simply legions, not praetorians.
 
just make some more DLC okay the modders of one special mod will be maybe sad about that, and then there is still that issue with that historical religious founder in the 7th century in Arabia....

I personally would handle that via a rule thing, just as you can have the mongol invasions be turned off and so forth. (Course I'd also do rules similar to this for Christianity because why not?)

Rule 1- Historical
Mohammed arises at the time he did historically, and begins to spread the new faith as far as possible. Player CANNOT play as this character.
Rule 2- Random-Historical
Mohammed can arise 50 years after the Christian faith has first appeared, with the chance for him to spawn growing as the date of his rise to prominence nears. Player CANNOT play this character.
Rule 3- Player Control
Unlocks option for Player to chose to switch to Mohammed, to see if they can recreate the path he and his successors took. Spawning time works on Random Historical.
Rule 4- Disabled
Mohammed does not arise at all

And I'd keep to the usage of that Arabic calligraphy image for him, mainly because I think it looks awesome~! Islamic/Arabic calligraphy is always so pretty...


Though either way it'd obviously be something one would want to check with people who know a fair bit about Islam first, figure out if there's a way they could do that wouldn't upset too many people.

They sold the product so they will be updating it to work with new versions of CK2 and EU4. It is just that their experiences in doing so means they are unlikely to make a new one.

Well, obviously they don't have to make one immediately :p I'd only recommend they make one once they get to a point where their drawing closer to 769, or whatever the next earliest CK2 bookmark ends up being.
 
Why would you drop the Thessaloniki Holy Site though? It's there to represent the location of Mount Olympus which is far more important to Hellenism than most of the places you've mentioned.
I'm not sure it's true. Pythagor was very important figure for hellenic theology (and, actually, his society was the first, I believe, organized theology group in hellenic world). Alexandria became a center of Hellenic thought (including religious) from 4th century BCE. Rome is Rome. Athene is the "school of Attica", the center of phylosophy (including religious one) and culture (and let's not forget that Hellenism in-game isn't just religious denomination, but cultural as well). Delphi was the most important oracle in Attica.
Dion was notable, but not so notable, and had mostly regional importance.
 
Except the retinue is simply legions, not praetorians.
I know, but some people were discussing having the praetorians as a special retinue(or a vassalized mercenary unit like the varangians are now, maybe?)and I merely wanted to point out that any given hellenic ruler with some degree of knowledge of the classical era would have some good reasons to let that particular military unit stay in the history books.
 
Well, obviously they don't have to make one immediately :p I'd only recommend they make one once they get to a point where their drawing closer to 769, or whatever the next earliest CK2 bookmark ends up being.
You misunderstand, I don't think they are going to make one at all even if they launch a new game that ends in 769(or a new bookmark though I rate the chance of them making an earlier one as near zero considering everything). It is just too much work to keep updating a converter each time either game does compared to what they earn with it, especially since the community will make one anyway.
 
I'm not sure it's true. Pythagor was very important figure for hellenic theology (and, actually, his society was the first, I believe, organized theology group in hellenic world). Alexandria became a center of Hellenic thought (including religious) from 4th century BCE. Rome is Rome. Athene is the "school of Attica", the center of phylosophy (including religious one) and culture (and let's not forget that Hellenism in-game isn't just religious denomination, but cultural as well). Delphi was the most important oracle in Attica.
Dion was notable, but not so notable, and had mostly regional importance.

Wth the risk of being a jerk pedant, I'm pretty sure that Delphi was not in Attica. I think that you mean that it was the most important oracle in the Greek world, not just Attica.
 
Wth the risk of being a jerk pedant, I'm pretty sure that Delphi was not in Attica. I think that you mean that it was the most important oracle in the Greek world, not just Attica.
You right twice. First, I meant Ellada, not Attica; second, I believed Delphi actually is in Attica, but it's a little more to west.
Edit: Still, my points stands. :)
 
You right twice. First, I meant Ellada, not Attica; second, I believed Delphi actually is in Attica, but it's a little more to west.
Edit: Still, my points stands. :)

I never meant to challenge your actual point only the localization of Delphi. Hence my comment that it was perhaps a bit "jerk pedant" over my post.

But anyway I'm pretty sure that Delphi was not in Attica as the whole of Attica was in the Athenian state but Athens could never claim control over Delphi.
 
Actually reforming Rome can be done in well under 100-150 years in 769 first thing to do in invite the Merovingian convert him to orthodox then land him, then declare a great invasion for Jerusalem, after winning that wait for Charlemagne to inherit karlomans kingdom and get his claim on Lombardy. then press the Merovingian claims and once Charlemagne is a vassal press his claim on Lombardy, from there its sniping duchies at opportune times via holy wars. but by this time you've snowballed so much even the Abbasid's are a pushover.

How to Conquer the World -

1) Beat the largest empire on the map at the peak of its power.
2) Beat the second biggest power on the map and the greatest military ruler of the early middle ages just as they expand from small nation to continent spanning empire
3) ...
4) PROFIT !