CK2 Dev Diary #112 - Wonderful News

[Prince Ire]

Oh god, please have this not mean Egyptian paganism is being added. Hellenic pagan was bad enough, we don't need more ridiculous revivals of dead religions added.

 

[Coalsack]

The white pillars on the last image of the Pyramid are of Islamic creation.

Ehrm, no. Obelisks originated in ancient Egypt. Albeit their construction started a little later than the Pyramids. Most of them come from the Middle Empire - New Empire period.

 

[Finn Mason]

This is wonderful news indeed. So we will have some "generic, ahistorical vanity projects" and "historical prebuilt monuments" that can be converted into EU4 (at least thought occured), and buildable cathedrals, pyramids, upgradeable towers and decorations. Have you considered "monarchs personal palace" type monument, like upgrade your capital holding into Medieval Versailles, or something along those lines? And here I thought Holy Fury couldn't be topped.

 

[The_Fylkir]

It's a very minor thing, but shouldn't the graphics of the restored/built-up Pyramids have a white outer case? The present colouration of the Pyramids is due to all the fine white limestone sourced at the quarries at Tura having been stripped away for the most part, leaving the duller coloured core-stones exposed. As a HUGE Egypt nerd, I would love it if I could somehow restore the ancient Egyptian religion and have white pyramids <<

 

[Manbearpig]

So... Can we become insane and become Kemetics after we finish the Pyramids?

 

[withche.07]

You can use these models for Turkish culture at Rise of the Sultanate of Rum period:
Great Mosque and Hospital of Divriği - https://whc.unesco.org/en/list/358
Alanya Castle and Shipyard - http://www.visitalanya.com/discover-alanya-castle/
Yivli Minaret & Mosque (Antalya) - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yivliminare_Mosque
Gök Madrasa (Sivas) - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gök_Medrese_(Sivas)
Sultanhanı Caravanserai (Aksaray) - http://www.tourmakerturkey.com/sultan-hani-caravanserai.html
Alaeddin Mosque (Konya) - https://www.beautifulmosque.com/Alaeddin-Mosque-in-Konya-Turkey
Karatay Madrasa (Konya) - http://islamicart.museumwnf.org/database_item.php?id=monument;isl;tr;mon01;7;en
Twin Minarets Madrasa (Erzurum) - https://archnet.org/sites/1947

And from early Ottoman period:
Great Mosque of Bursa - http://www.thebestofbursa.com/ulu-camii-bursa-grand-mosque/

 

[james24eagle]

Not currently planned, it would probably work better as an upgrade but medieval healthcare is not an expert topic of mine.

I want the hospital to be one of several “special” holding types that can be built in the current hospital spot. Only one special holding per province. Options other than hospital could be monastery, convent, university, etc. The options should be quasi settlements in themselves that have several buildings.

 

[Licarious]

This is a bit of a long shot, but the ancient Canal of the Pharaohs would be a good choice. It was the historical forerunner of the modern Suez Canal, and it linked the Nile river to the Red Sea. It was actually still in use until 767 (two years before the earliest start date!), when it was closed during the ongoing civil war in the Caliphate.

If you could rebuild or re-open it in-game, it would provide a sea link between the Mediterranean and Red Sea regions, expanding the game area for players in those areas. It would also make India and China more reasonable long-term objectives for players that start in the Mediterranean. The "Suez Canal" mod that does this is pretty popular, so there is certainly interest.

Grazie!

As much as I want this. I would imagine that it would be very difficult to merge Ocean regions and add portages while the game is running.

 

[Bookwyrm1357]

I see it's already been suggested, but I too would VERY much like to be able to build a medieval Suez canal. My Viking characters are always very disappointed that they can only pillage half the world... moreover, its always seemed kinda weird to me that the Vikings (and now other reformed pagans, potentially) can port their boats between the different rivers in Russia, yet can't do so over the (to judge from the map) much narrower strip of land cutting them off from the other half of CKII's oceans. (not to mention all those major rivers into India...). An achievement-compatible change (even it costs lots of money and time, or requires special conditions, even) would be just wonderful.
(I see you guys said "its possible to build canals", but can I take that to mean they'll be some way to connect the oceans? or is it just a province bonus/cosmetic feature?)

Also, I see that several people mentioned how cool it would be to be able to restore the Seven Ancient Wonders of the World (though I think more than just the Pyramids were still standing during at least part of CK II's time frame, weren't they?) and I quite agree, but, except for the Pyramids, I haven't seen any of the others mentioned specifically. Can we expect to see the other 6 too? or is it at least being considered? I'm very curious .

Lastly, I believe you mentioned that there will be "prebuilt" wonders like the pyramids of Giza and the Colosseum, but you also mentioned that there will be "a" (which I take to mean ONE) special holding slot for wonders (like forts, and trade posts, I presume?). does that mean it won't be possible to build your own, new, wonders in those counties?
And (one more thing, sorry), can we choose what wonders we build where (besides specific historical ones) or are we limited to certain choices (or just one choice) in each county? Will any historical restorations be in addition to, or in place of, any "custom" wonders you can build?

Right. That's it (for the moment), I promise!
Thanks in advance to anyone who answers all that!
In the meantime I'll try to keep my curiosity from doing any irreparable damage as it EATS me...

 

[TheudoaldTheBurner]

Man.... Almost got tears of joy, seeing that you haven't given up on CK2 yet. Hope the pyramids means that the Kemetic religion is under development. It'd be pretty bad ass to throw those filthy neket iadets down into a pool of Sobek's children.

 

[Farabi]

We will also be adding some prebuilt historical wonders to the game, to represent already existing buildings, such as the Pyramids of Giza and the Colosseum of Rome. (Maybe you can even add an upgrade or two).

The Colosseum was essentially a neglected relic of paganism in the medieval era, and was for a time used for housing. In the 1500s, Pope Sixtus V even tried to turn it into a wool factory. As much as we might (quite rightly) admire it today, I think it would be wrong to use it as a touristic 'wonder' that buffs medieval Romans, especially if Rome is only getting one wonder. The old Papal Basilica of St Peter was really what every pilgrim to Rome came to see.

The same isn't quite true of the pyramids, which astounded all who saw them; but all the same were not entirely safe from being plundered for stone and were threatened with destruction numerous times before the would-be vandals came to their senses (mostly because demolition would be no small task). If I were to choose an enduring symbol of Islamic Egypt, I would pick the al-Azhar, which exerted a far greater effect on the Islamic world as Cairo rose to become the greatest city in the Dar al-Islam. Indeed, under the Mamluk Sultanate it became the leading university in the Islamic world and a symbol of Cairo's intellectual and cultural prestige.

Nevertheless, out of the more ancient wonders I would still very much like to see the (damaged) Pharos of Alexandria. And if we are actually rebuilding Bronze Age monuments I would like a nuraghi in Sardinia!

 

[Manbearpig]

If you have fun ideas for any of this please let us know. I can’t promise it will get in, but it just might.

Modifications specific to culture/religion would be great if they aren't already a thing.
One example would be Norseman covering Giza with Runes.

 

[Zeired Scoffa]

Has anyone else suggested being able to dedicate cathedrals to Saints the game generates, possibly with a bonus for doing it with a saint in your libeage

 

[ademonlikeyou]

Event integration!

Let’s say you are able to build a University as a wonder, and somebody builds one. If a character in the world is apart of the Hermetic Society or has the scholarship focus, they could receive some sort of event to visit the famous university which was constructed.

If you are trying to sway a vassal or a ruler, then you could get an event to invite them to your Palace! If they are humble they may like you less for your palace being so grandiose, if they are ambitious they could become impressed and get an opinion boost, if they are envious they could get an opinion malus and possibly rival you!

 

[Snake_Squeezins]

Here are some ideas and links to further reading:


CASTLES:

Council Chamber / Seat of Power: increased Diplomacy and Intrigue, increased opinion from Council members. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Palace_of_Constantinople

Decorative Moats and Gardens: minor defensive bonus, increased Prestige, chance to gain Gardener trait. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodiam_Castle

Round Keep: large increased fort level, larger garrison, Martial bonus. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Château_de_Coucy or

Tower: prestige, moderate increased fort level. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcázar_of_Segovia or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Château_de_Vincennes

Epic Walls: large increased fort level, larger garrison, chance to gain Defender commander trait. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castles_and_Town_Walls_of_King_Edward_in_Gwynedd or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ávila,_Spain

Royal Hunting Grounds: increased chances of success during hunts, higher chance of White Stag event. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jagdschloss or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palace_of_Fontainebleau

Observatory: tech bonus, ties to Scholar.

Laboratory: tech bonus, ties to Scholar and Hermetic.

Drawbridge: increased Fort level, chance of gaining Strategist trait. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citadel_of_Aleppo

Glacis: increased Fort level, chance of gaining Architect trait. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krak_des_Chevaliers


MONASTERIES:

Library: +1 level for books composed by liege, increased Learning. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abbey_of_Saint_Gall

Defensive Tower/Citadel: increased Martial, increased garrison size and fort level. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convent_of_Christ_(Tomar) or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stavronikita

Murals and Artwork: liege and clergy based here have high chance to gain Poet, increased Learning. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_John_Abbey,_Müstair

Reliquary: allow liege to select an artifact, permanently attach it to the church, and create a minor Bloodline giving that bonus to the liege and his/her dynasty. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vézelay_Abbey

Fountains: small Health bonus, small Disease Resistance, Clergy based here gain faster Piety. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fountain#Medieval_fountains


CATHEDRALS / BASILICAS:

Belfries or Minarets: Piety, Prestige, increased conversion bonus for adjacent 1-2 counties. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belfries_of_Belgium_and_France

Ornate Facade: Piety, chance to attract Architect or Master Builder. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reims_Cathedral

Sculptures: Piety, resistance to heresy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reims_Cathedral

Stained Glass: Piety, chance to attract Bards. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sainte-Chapelle

Altarpiece: Piety, chance to attract Holy Men. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Mary's_Basilica,_Kraków

Tomb of a Saint: if we have a Saint in the family, give us a chance to make him/her the focal point of the cathedral and increase piety further, and maybe increase the bonuses received from their bloodline by 50-100%.

Reliquary: (same effect as above in Monasteries) allow liege to select an artifact, permanently attach it to the church, and apply its bonus to all living lieges within a 1-2 province radius. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shrine_of_the_Three_Kings

Baptistery: large increased Piety and Relations bonus for people baptized here, higher chance of attracting Master Builders. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pisa_Baptistery or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florence_Baptistery


TOWN SQUARE / TOWN HALL:

Administrative Hub: increase tax, decrease revolt risk, increased vassal opinion. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kraków_Town_Hall

Clock Tower: tech bonus, small tax bonus. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zytglogge or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prague_astronomical_clock

Market Square: moderate to large tax increase, increased Burgher opinion, increased Stewardship. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Square,_Kraków

Landmark Square: increased vassal opinion. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Place

Landmark/Symbolic Statue: prestige bonus, decreased revolt risk. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Trinity_Column,_Olomouc

or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bremen_Roland

Jewish Quarter: increased wealth equivalent to a Trading Post, increased chance of Ashkenazi courtiers appearing, high chance of Sympathy for Judaism for liege and noble family members, small decrease to relations with Church, moderate increase to relations with Burghers. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_quarter_of_Toledo or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kazimierz


PRE-EXISTING WONDERS:

For all existing wonders, a longtime owner (10+ years?) should be able to spend prestige and incur an opinion loss to destroy a structure and loot the stone for a long-term discount to construction costs within 1-2 counties.

Tower of London in London, England. William the Conqueror’s legendary structure is already on the CK2 map. Big bonus to Prestige, increase for Martial and Intrigue, reduced revolt risk, increased Plot Power. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tower_of_London

Diocletian's Palace in Split, Croatia. Roman-era imperial retirement home. Upgrade/convert it into your own palace, mausoleum, or monastery for a choice of Piety or Prestige. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diocletian's_Palace

Aachen Cathedral in Aachen, Germany. Burial place of Charlemagne. Liege can maybe kick out Charlie and use it for a big Prestige bonus at the expense of a negative relation modifier for Frankish descendants/culture, or instead maybe use it to bind their dynasty bind his and re-form his Bloodline. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aachen_Cathedral

Mosque of Cordoba in Cordoba, Spain. Center of Andalus. Huge Piety bonus. Upgrade available as Muslim but also let a Christian King with high prestige do what happened later and convert it to a cathedral. Would increase Piety but decrease opinion heavily with Muslims and Andalus culture. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosque–Cathedral_of_Córdoba

Umayyad Mosque in Damascus, Syria. Center of religion in the Levant. Christian with high Prstige who owns it 10+ years should be able to re-dedicate it to John the Baptist for a huge relations malus to all neighboring Muslims but a huge relations bonus for Christians and a massive Piety bump. Mystic Muslim liege should be able to provoke the End of Days here. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umayyad_Mosque

Zytglogge in Bern, Switzerland. Multipurpose 13th Century clocktower. Martial, Economic, and Culture tech bonus. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zytglogge

Wawel Cathedral in Krakow, Poland. Focal point of Polish monarchy and coronation. Massive bonus for liege’s relations with Polish culture, increased chance of culture conversion to Polish among court members. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wawel_Cathedral

Roskilde Cathedral in Roskilde, Denmark. Focal point of Danish monarchy. Bonus with Danish culture, Culture Tech bonus. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roskilde_Cathedral

Thingvellir in Iceland. Focal point of Icelandic culture and site of parliament. Big relations bonus to all vassals in Duchy of Iceland, Culture tech bonus. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Þingvellir

Sherwood Forest in England. Give Robin Hood some extra events and make him either a true antagonist or eventually a trusted lieutenant depending on your traits. The forest itself could then either give you a tax and rebellion bonus, or a tax and rebellion penalty depending on your relations with the Merry Men. Even after Robin dies the forest can retain legendary status and either continue to be an economic boon or a curse for lieges. I suppose someone who wants a definitive end to the Merry Men could just burn down the forest and be done with it, though that should spawn a Bloodline with a permanent relations malus for all of the cultures in Britannia. (“Enemy of the Forest” or whatever.)

Acropolis in Athens, Greece. The Byzantines made a lot of upgrades and mods to it during their reign. Prestige bonus, Culture tech bonus, relations bonus with Greek culture. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acropolis_of_Athens

Alhambra in Granada, Spain. Prestige, Sympathy with Christians/Muslims/Judaism for liege, Minor Health bonus (the water system and climate are great there!), probably a small Fort bonus. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alhambra

Roman Walls of Lugo in Lugo, Spain. Fort bonus for all Castles and Cities in county. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_walls_of_Lugo

Citadel of Aleppo. Increased Martial, Fort bonus for Castle, attracts Commanders. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citadel_of_Aleppo

Carcassonne Fortress in Carcassonne, France. One of the few places to not endure Black Death. Effects for Hospital structures increased by 100%, additional Disease Resistance bonus, extra Fort level. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cité_de_Carcassonne

Palmyra in Palmyra, Syria. Tech bonus for Culture, tax bonus equivalent to a Trading Post, small chance of liege to gain Architect trait. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palmyra

Waterwheels in Hama, Syria. Waterwheels/aqueducts called Norias. Prosperity gained at increased rate within 1 county, minor bonus to Disease Resistance. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hama

Petra in Petra, Jordan. Ancient Nabatean capital. Culture bonus for Levantine culture, tech bonus for Culture, small chance of liege to gain Architect trait. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petra

Axum in Tigray, Ethiopia. Ancient site of Axum culture. Sympathy for Christians/Orthodox increased chance for liege and family based here, Culture tech bonus. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axum

Lalibela Underground Churches in Lalibela, Ethiopia. Pilgrimage site for Miaphysite. High piety bonus, high same-religious bonus for Miaphysites, higher chance of Saint bloodline forming, non-Miaphysite owner has nigh chance of Sympathy for Miaphysite. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lalibela

Meroe Pyramids near Shendi, Sudan. Whatever bonuses you decide to give to the Pyramids in Giza, give a version of those for this, too. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meroë


SUPERNATURAL SITES YOU COULD DISCOVER / SITES LUNATICS COULD BUILD:

Atlantis. Maybe have a chance to discover it on the Canary Islands or the Balearic Islands if you have Superstitious events on, offer a big tech bonus I guess.

Tower of Babel. If you go insane or become a Mystic, start an event chain to try to succeed where they failed in the past. If you succeed maybe you have a shot to become Immortal? Not sure if it would be more appropriate to give piety, or take it away…

Monument to Glitterhoof/Dog/Cat. Obviously.

 

[Andrekh]

Could it be possible to rebuild Hadrian's wall?

 

[Manbearpig]

An Egyptian Cultured Reformed African Paganism, perhaps?

I think Hellenic would be closer

 

[PabloSugo1991]

I'd like more ancient religion flavor and a random pagan world option

Gimme roman units after Imperator Rome like you did for EU4
I'd love more overhaul on the Roman flavor, so please give those to me!
Also holdings could use a rework, like turks and mediterranean cultures

 

[MonzUn]

Could we have a log recording all of the people who contributed to building a wonder, its build dates, etc. somewhere on the province window?

And don't forget to put it into the dynastic chronicles as well.

This is something that we would like to do and hopefully it will get in in one form or another

 

[Prince Ire]

I'd like more ancient religion flavor and a random pagan world option

Gimme roman units after Imperator Rome like you did for EU4
I'd love more overhaul on the Roman flavor, so please give those to me!
Also holdings could use a rework, like turks and mediterranean cultures

Or, or, they could instead work on religions that actually existed in CK2's time period.