CK2 Dev Diary #112 - Wonderful News

[Patriarch of Bub]

My mum was an egyptologist and she suggested the tomb of queen Hatshepsut. Do not disappoint my mum. Oh yea, I'm making this personal

 

[Patriarch of Bub]

I tried to explain that we were mostly talking architecture, but she insisted i proposed the portraits of Fayum.

At least they are beautiful.

 

[Ixalmaris]

Listing historical building which might or might not be considered wonders is all fine and well, but the feature will hopefully not be limited to build existing wonders on specific places but instead allows us to build our own wonders wherever we want.

So instead of a huge list of temple wonders with slight variations we need more generic ones.

So apart from religious wonders (cathedrals, mosqs) and burial sites (pyramids) I can think of great baths and aqueducts for a large disease resistence and giant statues (no idea what they should do besides prestige)

What other wonder categories would there be besides what was already mentioned?

 

[YaumeLepire]

I’m thinking there should be a wonder available to the reformer of a pagan religion, one that should obviously be affected by the choices made during said reformation. For example, if you reformed the Zunist faith, you could be able to build a large sun temple-complex and, if you picked a secular leadership, be allowed to reign from within it. Then, once it is built, the upgrades available could be a stable set with a single one or a few affected by doctrines and nature, so reforming with the Bloodthirsty Gods doctrine might allow you to build a large and ostentatious sacrificial altar from where to do your sacred murdering in style, while reforming with the Peaceful nature could grant a grand meditating garden!

 

[sreckom92]

I've posted an idea long time agoago called Great Cities.
Basically, certain provinces would have unique map graphics, like a few famous monuments and actual walls.

Constantinople would get Hagia Sophia, Hippodrome and Theodosian WallsWalls for example.

Other great cities with unique graphics would be Rome, Jerusalem, Baghdad, Mecca, Cordoba, Kiev...

It would be amazing if you could look at those cities and recognize the historical shape of their walls.

 

[Gnorrosch]

What other wonder categories would there be besides what was already mentioned?

The wondrous gardens, like the Hanging Gardens, Irminsul or Sacred Groves.

 

[Jimmyfeellucky]

So the next update is about wonder. Can I
1. Rebuild ancient wonders?
2. Hired Chinese engineers to build Chinese style wonders e.g. The great wall to protect against incoming mongols?
3. Repair and use the Colosseum if Roman culture is revived?
4. Build the Great statue of myself if I was so GREAT, e.g. trajan's column of myself?
5. Build my own Great tomb and hide treasure there and bobby traps? Also become infamous tomb raider of AI's tomb and other ancient kings's tomb?
6. Be able to build Aztec Pyramids for sunset invasion owners?

 

[DaJay42]

One thing I think worth mentioning here is that the Acropolis in Athens survived far longer than most people realize.

For example, the Parthenon survived the rise of Christianity by being re-purposed as a church at towards the end of the the sixth century, and remained that way until being turned into a mosque in the 1460s by the Ottomans. It wasn't actually destroyed until a Venetian bombardment in 1687.

 

[Jimmyfeellucky]

The Suez Canal was theorized for centuries before the game's start, but never made. Perhaps a very expensive canal could be created by Egyptian emperors? The ability to send boats from one side of the map to the other would be a huge change, since the map currently has two oceans that will never connect.

I strongly argee as a must for rich merchant republic empire.

 

[Orphalesion]

I love it! I wanted something like this for a while.

Still weird though, Cleopatra's lived closer to the present day than to the construction of pyramids, to picture how old those really are...

It's crazy isn't it? Though that specifically relates to the Great Pyramids of Gizeh, other pyramids pyramids were built a little bit closer to Cleopatra's lifetime and while they had fallen out of fashion in Egypt, pyramids directly inspired by them continued to be constructed in Nubia during and after Cleopatra's lifetime (though they were smaller):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nubian_pyramids

 

[42dustman]

Suggestions:

The Palaces of Persepolis
The Caravanserais of Petra
The Mahabodhi Temple
The Mosque of Mecca
The Dome of the Rock
The Holy Sepulchre
The Buddhas of Bamiyan
The Lighthouse of Alexandria
The Mausoleum at Halicarnassus
The Taj Mahal
The Hagia Sophia

 

[Coalsack]

It has little to do with wonders, but since we're going to add more graphics to the provinces, I'd like to suggest that some elements could be reduced in size, so the generic building miniatures don't collide with the wonder models.

 

[TheDungen]

Can they fall into ruin? I seem to recall Saladin took the outer layer of the pyramids to build the citadel in Cairo.

 

[Patriarch of Bub]

Can they fall into ruin? I seem to recall Saladin took the outer layer of the pyramids to build the citadel in Cairo.

Saladin (tm) ... The ultimate healthy snack. Available at your local crusader camp.

 

[bitmapmedivh]

'Forbidden City' for Chineese Imperial?

Or Terracotta Army Tomb for your ruler?

 

[TheDungen]

Saladin (tm) ... The ultimate healthy snack. Available at your local crusader camp.

Ṣalāḥ ad-Dīn

 

[Riekopo]

That very popular buildings mod is a good place to get ideas for the devs.

 

[Thanium]

I don't know if this can be considered completely relevant here, but seeing as we are on the topic of buildings like these, perhaps it is time to reconsider the art for Norse cultures buildings? Because I am from Denmark and know that after the christianization we built castles of stone like everyone else, rather than the wooden forts that the art shows. One example would for instance be Vordingborg Castle at which construction started around 1160. Now there are only ruins left, but parts of the walls and such remain, including a tower and it is mostly a type of reddish stone used there. Any thoughts? Also, apologies if this post is not relevant here

Thanium

 

[Displacement]

FINALLY MY BELOVED LUCIFER WILL GET THE PYRAMID HE DESERVES

 

[TheDungen]

Perhaps wonders should replace holy sites. Essentially every former holy site has a wonder that is mostly just effective for them. But those are not the only wonders that can exist, if you are rich and powerful you can build your own ones. And these are what you need for MA and pagan reformations. Making it possible if more difficult and expensive to reform a branch of paganism without going wide.

I'm guessing the Egyptian Pagan religion will make a comeback... Still weird though, Cleopatra's lived closer to the present day than to the construction of pyramids, to picture how old those really are...

Hence why building pyramids are such an odd incusion, as would kemetic paganism, much better to recognize that hellenic egypt (first ptolmaic then prechristian roman egypt) lasted a thousand years and left a mark on the region that simply cannot be dialed back.

We have atleast one 'lunatic' wonder planned.

However it will be easier for us to add upgrades for lunatics.

The Pyramids?

A many-towered citadel or fortress (Camelot, or the sort of thing that Neuschwanstein was imitating, or that Viollet-le-Duc ended up creating at Carcasonne)

Thpse aren't in this era. But the Cave de Tyrone and the Château de La Roche-Guyon are, and also in the game as possible holdings.

Will we be able to make canals?

Pharao's canal and also the Rhine Danube Canal were both inside the timeframe of this game.

Restoring the Roman aqueducts for prosperity/disease resistance boosts could be fun.

They are already in the game if you go city builder bloodline.

Will we get a game rule to turn these off ?
Please

Atleast some of the more crazy ones.

Fruit - economy upgrades?

I think those are roses...

An Egyptian Cultured Reformed African Paganism, perhaps?

Hellenism would make much more sense, egypt existed under hellenic rule for a thousand years.

You can already build pyramid for your dead pets when you character is a lunatic. =p

I never figured those were full sized ones. The ones in Giza are... rather big...

Oh god, please have this not mean Egyptian paganism is being added. Hellenic pagan was bad enough, we don't need more ridiculous revivals of dead religions added.

Should just be a localisation of Hellenic if you ask me.
On the other hand "I am Horus the avenger, I have risen to avenge the divine Pharao Osiris and restore the rule of Ma'at (law and order) to this world! Beware me followers of the cross and the crescent moon, and other agents of Isfet, for I am your doom!"

The Colosseum was essentially a neglected relic of paganism in the medieval era, and was for a time used for housing. In the 1500s, Pope Sixtus V even tried to turn it into a wool factory. As much as we might (quite rightly) admire it today, I think it would be wrong to use it as a touristic 'wonder' that buffs medieval Romans - especially if Rome is only getting one wonder. The old Papal Basilica of St Peter was really what every pilgrim to Rome came to see.

The same isn't quite true of the pyramids, which astounded all who saw them - but all the same were not entirely safe from being plundered for stone and were threatened with destruction numerous times before the would-be vandals came to their senses (mostly because demolition would be no small task). If I were to choose an enduring symbol of Islamic Egypt, I would pick the al-Azhar, which exerted a far greater effect on the Islamic world as Cairo rose to become the greatest city in the Dar al-Islam. Indeed, under the Mamluk Sultanate it became the leading university in the Islamic world and a symbol of Cairo's intellectual and cultural prestige.

Nevertheless, out of the more ancient wonders I would still very much like to see the (damaged) Pharos of Alexandria. And if we are actually rebuilding Bronze Age monuments I would like a nuraghi in Sardinia!

Perhaps there should be more than one wonder per province but only one can be in use at any one time. Building anew one means staling materials from the old oen and reducing it to a ruin which confers no advantages.

I think Hellenic would be closer

Yes egypt has been greatly impacted by the ptolmaic kingdom and by the roman empire It makes no sense that there is a restoration for Kemet but no restoration of Aegyptus/os.

What special wonders would ducks build? 'The Grand Pond of Quackington'

What wonder a duck would build? Isn't that obvious?
A "little" shining something on a hill

I just wondered: is the patch that adds this going to be the next one, or can we expect some fixes before these additions? I'm still eagerly awaiting the Hellenic gods getting their Greek names if you reform as Greek fix and hoping it isn't delayed just so it can be added at the same time as the Wonders.

As I have said previously I think this would also be the best way to add "Egyptian Paganism", by making it so that egyptian or coptic reformers reform it to use the counterpart gods instead.