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CK2 Dev Diary #53: Time to pay Tribute

Greetings!

Today I’d like to talk to you about a part of the game that we’ve chosen to overhaul and improve - the Tributary system! Introduced in Horse Lords, the ‘Make Tributary’ CB allowed you to go to war with a neighboring realm to make them pay you 40% of their income until the death of your current character. It was quite a simple system that didn’t always fit the intended purpose very well, so we decided to make it more advanced and capable of diverse use!

Tributaries can now come in a lot of flavors, as they are entirely definable in a new ‘tributary_types’ file. You define a name and then you set the parameters for how you would like the Tributary to work. You are able to customize a lot of things, for example; the various tribute percentages, if the Tributary should be set free on death or if the Suzerain must defend the Tributary in wars.

With this new system we have lots of ideas on where we could add new types of Tributaries, i.e. Permanent Tributaries or Nomad Tributaries. If you have any ideas for a type of Tributary (and when it would make sense to have it/when to gain access to the CB) feel free to post a suggestion in this thread!

To demonstrate, here’s the script for an example Tributary type:

Code:
example = {                                # name used for that type of tributary. "default" is the standard type, replacing the old tributaries, and "none" is reserved and should not be used
    tributary_name = TRIBUTARY_DEFAULT_NAME        # localization string used for tributaries of that type (ie "Tributary" for the default type, "Permanent Tributary" for the Permanent type, etc)
    tributary_plural = TRIBUTARY_DEFAULT_PLURAL    # localization string used for tributaries of that type, when there is more than one (ie "Tributaries" for the default type, "Permanent Tributaries" for the Permanent type, etc)
    suzerain_name = SUZERAIN_DEFAULT_NAME        # localization string used for suzerains of that tributary type (ie "Suzerain" for the default type, "Permanent Suzerain" for the Permanent type, etc)
    tribute_name = TRIBUTARY_DEFAULT_TRIBUTE    # localization string used for "paying $TRIBUTE$" for that tributary type
    breaks_at_suzerain_death = yes        # yes/no value determining if the tributary relationship is dissolved when the suzerain dies.
    breaks_at_tributary_death = no         # yes/no value determining if the tributary relationship is dissolved when the tributary dies
    suzerain_must_defend = no             # yes/no value determining if the suzerain is forced to accept calls to arms from tributary in defensive wars (wars were the tributary is the defender)
                                        # if they decline anyway, they will lose the tributary and an amount of prestige defined in defines.lua, called SUZERAIN_DEFENDER_CALL_DECLINE_COST
    tributary_can_be_summoned = yes     # yes/no value determining if the suzerain can calls the tributaries to war (as tribal vassals / allies)   
    tributary_must_defend = yes            # yes/no value determining if the tributaries are forced to accept defensive calls to arms
    tributaries_can_infight = yes        # yes/no value determining if the tributaries can fight against each others, if both tributaries are of the same type
                                        # if tributaries are of different types, they will always be allowed to fight each other, even if they have the same suzerain
    suzerain_can_join_infighting = yes    # yes/no value determining if the suzerain can join a tributary in a war against another
    tributaries_can_unite = no             # yes/no value determining if, when trying to break, the tributaries can band together against the suzerain, à la major revolt
    breaks_on_realm_change=yes            # yes/no value determining if the tributary relationship is dissolved when the tributary's titles change realms
    cbs_against_suzerain = {            # list of CBs tributaries can use against their suzerain
        free_tributary_cb
    }
    income_tribute_percentage = {        # how much of their monthly income the tributary must pay to their suzerain.
                                        # THIS IS ONLY EVALUATED WHEN THE TRIBUTARY RELATIONSHIP IS FORMED
                                        # and is not reevaluated afterwards
                                        # this value is an MTTH and should compute a value between 0 and 1, inclusive
                                        # in case the total is less than 0, it will be counted as 0
                                        # in case the total is more than 1, it will be counted as 1
                                        # current scope is the tributary, FROM is the suzerain
        value = 0.10
        additive_modifier = {
            value = 0.05
            FROM = {
                is_merchant_republic = yes
            }
        }
    }
    reinforce_tribute_percentage = {    # How much of the tributary's reinforcement rate will go to the suzerain's instead.
                                        # THIS IS ONLY EVALUATED WHEN THE TRIBUTARY RELATIONSHIP IS FORMED
                                        # and is not reevaluated afterwards
                                        # this value is an MTTH and should compute a value between 0 and 1, inclusive
                                        # in case the total is less than 0, it will be counted as 0
                                        # in case the total is more than 1, it will be counted as 1
                                        # current scope is the tributary, FROM is the suzerain

                                        # this is applied by subtracting the percentage, as is, from the tributary's reinforcement rate
                                        # and adding a scaled (based on demesne size= version of the percentage to the suzerain
                                        # So, for example, the tributary loses 10% of reinforcement rate, but the suzerain gains 10% * (tributary's demesne size) / (suzerain's demesne size)
        value = 0.10
        additive_modifier = {
            value = 0.05
            FROM = {
                is_merchant_republic = yes
            }
        }
    }
    prestige_to_suzerain = {            # how much of prestige the suzerain gains every month per tributary (of that type) he holds
                                        # this value is an MTTH and the raw value will be added to the suzerain's prestige every month.
                                        # current scope is the suzerain, FROM is the tributary
        value = 0
    }
    prestige_to_tributary = {            # how much prestige the tributary gains every month
                                        # this value is an MTTH and the raw value will be added to the tributary's prestige every month.
                                        # to make them lose prestige, return a negative value
                                        # current scope is the tributary, FROM is the suzerain
        value = 0
    }
    piety_to_suzerain = {                # how much of piety the suzerain gains every month per tributary (of that type) he holds
                                        # this value is an MTTH and the raw value will be added to the suzerain's piety every month.
                                        # current scope is the suzerain, FROM is the tributary
        value = 0
    }
    piety_to_tributary = {                # how much of piety a tributary gains every month
                                        # this value is an MTTH and the raw value will be added to the tributary's piety every month.
                                        # to make them lose piety, return a negative value
                                        # current scope is the tributary, FROM is the suzerain
        value = 0
    }
}

I’d also like to expand upon something we touched upon in the last DD; the new ‘unjust conquest’ CB (now renamed to Border Dispute). When declaring a Border Dispute over a County you first and foremost have to pay an upfront cost of Piety and Gold scaled to your tier (in the case of Pagans, prestige is used), but you also take an opinion hit from both your religious head (if you have one) as well as any landed characters of the targeted religious group in both your realm and the one you’re attacking. Note that these opinion modifiers stack! This makes the border Dispute CB dangerous to use on characters of your own religion, especially if you have a religious head capable of excommunicating you. You will primarily want to use this CB to expand early on when drawing the ire of your co-religionists is worth the risk, or against characters not of your religion.

Border_dispute_tooltip.png

Example is of an Irish Count wanting to conquer another Irish Count.


Note that Muslims, Nomads and in certain cases Pagans do not have access to this CB, as their current CB’s are already superior. It is also possible to turn the CB off entirely by using Game Rules.
Border_dispute_GR.png


Note that we’ve also decided to leave Fabricate Claim as it is right now.
 
He's not giving you a hard time because you're complaining, but because you are being overly dramatic about it.

Because they haven't talked about it yet, they clearly don't care? Because they are skipping a dev diary because they're on holiday, they don't care? That's them treating us like garbage? You sound like an entitled child. Calm down.

Unless you haven't noticed, the devs always respond to player issues. They even created an entire new (moddable!) system so that people can custom tailor the experience to their own styles (I am referring to the game rules, of course). I am confident they will address the rampant secret religious societies problems and add some new societies to increase character choices, just as they have made a good effort to fix many other issues.
 
I am really looking forward to differnet tributary systems!

As someone who doesn't like conquering it all but more projecting dominance, I would welcome some type of "sphere of influence" where you get some tribute and it isn't lost upon the ruler's death, but you have to join their defensive wars or lose your status. Your tributaries should also be able to support each other or join an offensive war against you in order to obtain their full souvereignty (if they are unhappy with your rule).
 
They finally decide to get rid of the horrible sit and wait fabricate claims mechanic and people riot over it? I don't understand the people who play this game, everything that drives me away from it seems to be some high important and untouchable pillar to this community.
 
Well, we will be careful with the balance, and what the AI will do, etc. The Fabricate Claim job is bad for three main reasons:
  • Unpredictable Time
  • Unpredictable Cost
  • Unpredictable Outcome
In this case, I prefer a solution that gives more direct player agency.

Note that we’ve also decided to leave Fabricate Claim as it is right now.

One wonders where all these arguments have gone to.
 
They finally decide to get rid of the horrible sit and wait fabricate claims mechanic and people riot over it? I don't understand the people who play this game, everything that drives me away from it seems to be some high important and untouchable pillar to this community.

You know what they should do instead of removing the wait time on Fabricating Claims? Give us something to do in game while waiting for the fabrication to happen.
 
If you have any ideas for a type of Tributary (and when it would make sense to have it/when to gain access to the CB) feel free to post a suggestion in this thread!
Could you have the game make a vassal a permanent tributary when a vassal of lower rank suddenly becomes the same rank and gains Independence this would make sense for people like William the Conqueror so he would be both "vassal" of France and Independent king. Also could you allow any lord ranked king or emperor access to a semi-permanent tributary CB on any one lower rank (Christians have a piety cost added of course). After death of the Suzerain any tributary can declare independence if they desire and the Suzerain must join any outside wars. Also can we have a few new interactions with tributaries for example a demand tribute diplo option that can turn weaker realms into tributaries, demand artifact (takes artifact for a opinion hit but may also cause the tributary to declare independence), pay for land (you can take a County if you have a claim on it but you must pay a cost of gold), and make demanding vassalage for a tributary easier than normal.
 
Could you have the game make a vassal a permanent tributary when a vassal of lower rank suddenly becomes the same rank and gains Independence this would make sense for people like William the Conqueror so he would be both "vassal" of France and Independent king. Also could you allow any lord ranked king or emperor access to a semi-permanent tributary CB on any one lower rank (Christians have a piety cost added of course). After death of the Suzerain any tributary can declare independence if they desire and the Suzerain must join any outside wars. Also can we have a few new interactions with tributaries for example a demand tribute diplo option that can turn weaker realms into tributaries, demand artifact (takes artifact for a opinion hit but may also cause the tributary to declare independence), pay for land (you can take a County if you have a claim on it but you must pay a cost of gold), and make demanding vassalage for a tributary easier than normal.

Wouldn't make much sense for William. He was independent. He wasn't a tributary of France with whole England. That wouldn't represent the situation better than the current setup.
 
Wouldn't make much sense for William. He was independent. He wasn't a tributary of France with whole England. That wouldn't represent the situation better than the current setup.
but it would be better than him being totally independent like he is now.
 
but it would be better than him being totally independent like he is now.

He is still part of France de jure. Tributary would mean that WHOLE England would be dependent of France which would be way more ahistorical than making him completelly independent. William was more independent than vassal.
 
I hope the new system makes it easier for huge swath of land occupied nations to crumble into bits. As I crank up rebellion to the max strength and gimp demesne and vassal limit down to 1 quarter in order to force this in my games (go away HRE and abbasids no one likes you!).
 
I want an option for something like:

Do_Homage = Yes
or
Annual _Homage = Yes

Meaning once each year a liege can summon his vassals to do homage and the vassal or tributary receives an event with multiple options they can chose from. Potential to expand into larger event chains and/or restrictable based on legalism level.
 
What would make the game more interesting for me would be the option of "peaceful expansion/secession" or something of the like. For example If my economy is far more powerful than that of my liege (so i pay him in exchange for independence), a more powerful military (so in order to avoid an expensive war I'm allowed independence), or a combination of these factors. In short: more options instead of cb/war to reach goals of expansion or independence would be nice to have.
 
What would make the game more interesting for me would be the option of "peaceful expansion/secession" or something of the like. For example If my economy is far more powerful than that of my liege (so i pay him in exchange for independence), a more powerful military (so in order to avoid an expensive war I'm allowed independence), or a combination of these factors. In short: more options instead of cb/war to reach goals of expansion or independence would be nice to have.

Factions for Independence? You can also expand peacefully very easily through marriage and factions for claims. It's actually fairly easy to expand and play peacefully in CK2.
 
Not sure if this has been suggested already but here goes:

Protectorate Tributaries (not sure if some of the things I describe below are doable but here goes)
A realm may, if it has 40% less realm size than the target, request to become a protectorate of a larger realm through a diplomatic action targeting the leader of that realm. The protector state would receive a certain amount of income and prestige from this relationship, whereas the protectee would benefit from the larger defense forces of the larger realm. It would break on the death of the Protectee ruler, but not on the death of the Protector ruler, unless of course the protectee tried to. Still working this out but this is my rough idea.
 
Fabricating requires money as, much like the (target lord's) event says, your Councillor has been bribing officials and announcing to anyone that will listen about your "rightful" claim to the territory until it had enough support to grant a strong claim.

you lose prestige cause everyone knows it's probably bullshit, but as long as you've got the strength to prove it, they're willing to give you the chance to do so.

for the border dispute claim, just think of as you hiring some brigands to run a false flag operation.