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CK2 Dev Diary #88 - A Faith In My Own Image

Greetings!

Bit of a sneaky DevDiary today - this Friday (when we usually post Dev Diaries) is the time for Midsummer celebrations here in Sweden, so we wouldn't be able to answer your questions! Tomorrow we'll be busy eating pickled herring and getting rained on, but today we're here for you!

By now it’s hardly a secret that the two main focuses for the Holy Fury expansion are going to be Catholicism as well as Paganism. Playing as a Catholic is core to the game, with a grounded set of rules for you to adhere to (and abuse). Playing a Pagan, in contrast, is a more visceral and instantly gratifying experience - with a strong emphasis on dynamism compared to the more rigid christian faiths. Before going any further, it’s worth noting that the Pagan religious group will be unlocked and playable with Holy Fury.

With Holy Fury, reforming a Pagan faith is no longer a one-click type of deal. Instead you’ll be able to tailor the new religion to become exactly what you want it to be through the new Reformation interface:
ReformationDD_ReformView.png


You will be able to open and preview this screen at any point while playing an unreformed pagan, allowing you to plan ahead what type of features you want to pick. We’ve also taken this opportunity to make the Bön religion reformable, to provide equal opportunity to the eastern Pagans.
ReformationDD_FeaturePicker.png


There are three different types of ‘slots’ to be filled in, the Nature, Doctrine and Leadership of the religion. The default selection will be thematically chosen depending on what faith you’re reforming - though there’s nothing stopping you from picking wildly divergent features, such as a Pacifistic Nature for the Germanic religion.

While most features will be available to all pagan religions, they will all have one unique doctrine that only they can pick. This is to enhance the differences between the various unreformed pagan faiths. The Germanic special feature will, for example, contain Seafaring and Prepared Invasions - something the other religions must spend two doctrine slots to get.

The possibilities with reformation are near endless, you’ll be able to make a religion that suits your specific needs. For example, if you’re surrounded by other religions (very common if playing Zun or Bön for example) the Cosmopolitan Nature would be advised, as then you can intermarry with your neighbors to create non-aggression pacts. If you’re tired of the Abrahamic religions and their incessant Crusades, you can adopt a Warmongering Nature combined with a Bloodthirsty Gods doctrine to really show them what you think of their weak rituals.

As there’s too many features for us to bring up right now, I’ll save them for a future Dev Diary. Worth noting is that several of the Doctrines you can choose will contain special events and decisions tied to them, so even if you’ve already played a game once where you reform a Pagan faith - you might just want to play another one, to see what could have been different.

To round off, here’s a few of our favorite reformation setups from us in the Dev Team:

ReformationDD_ReformViewRageair.png

Starting off with my own choice, I’m all about creating chaos - and there’s no greater way to achieve that than to promote not only close-kin marriage, but also harems on top of that! Once during a multiplayer with the Dev Team I managed to reform the religion most of us was playing into something similar to this. They were confused when their children started marrying each other, to say the least!

ReformationDD_ReformViewSnowcrystal.png

@Snow Crystal I like playing tall, so I like boosts that let me control who the Heir is, as well as making sure the heir is as popular as possible. I can't stand having a Religious Head that tells me what to do, and think Autocephalous is pretty cool. I don't really care about spreading my faith outside of my borders - if anything, I’d prefer everything outside my borders to be heathenous, so that I get more of a challenge!

ReformationDD_ReformViewSilfae.jpg

@Silfae Usually upon reforming, my dynasty ends up alone against a world of infidels. The quickest way to spread the faith when in those circumstances is through military action, hence the need for a Warmongering Nature. Picking the Astrology Doctrine unlocks the Zodiac traits for my characters, giving them various attribute boosts, while Haruspicy can help me influence the morale of my armies (for better or worse). Furthermore, since Astrology and Haruspicy are synergistic Doctrines, by combining them I gain access to additional perks that would have otherwise been out of reach for me... as well as ending up with an extremely superstitious religion.

ReformationDD-CJ.JPG

@Tuscany One of my favorite reformation combinations is mixing 'Bloodthirsty Gods’ and ‘Haruspicy'. Being able to sacrifice people to your gods and get rewarded for it is great fun, and when combined with Haruspicy (the art of reading an animal's entrails to predict the future) you can even cut apart your prisoners and see whether you will be lucky in future wars. Of course I pick ‘Temporal’ to allow me to rule over all of this as the conduit between god and man, and ‘Peaceful’ because non-violence is obviously the best strategy.
 
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If you have HF, but not TOG, you'll still be able to play Pagans, basically. Would be weird otherwise when Pagan Reformations is one of the main features.
The main feature of TOG was that you got to be able to play a pagan AND thus be able to reform a pagan religion. The only exceptions to this is Bön with JD who weren't able to reform their religion (up until now) and nomads with HL who can be pagan as long as they're nomads. Now HF reintroduces playable pagans and gives you an even more awesome pagan reformation. Shouldn't TOG owners receive some sort of band-aid if they also end up owning HF?

Edit: To clarify, TOG has the following features, playable pagans and zoroastrians, new start date, revolt-risk induced revolts with a character with a war goal, adventurers. 2 of these are just flavour, there is little you as a player can do about them, you can't give support to an adventurer and the revolt character is randomly generated when the revolt triggers. New start date is nice, but not essential to gameplay. Thus, if you are looking to expand your gameplay in CK2, you'd get TOG for the playable pagans and zoroastrians.

HF will have the following features, shattered and random worlds, warrior lodge society for pagans, bloodlines, custom pagan reformation, new succession laws, etc., and playable pagans. There are so many features with HF that will expand the gameplay in CK2, and one of them is essentially making TOG redundant.

To make it simple, here is what you get when you combine different DLCs after HF comes out:
  • HL+HF, playable pagans even if you're not nomadic (playable pagans are not the main draw of HL)
  • JD+HF, playable pagans even if you're not Bön (being able to play Bön characters is not the the main draw of JD)
  • TOG+HF, playable pagans and zoroastrians (being able to play pagans is part of the main draw of TOG)
 
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Why would Cosmopolitan nature allow Great Holy Wars? It looks like quite a religion without religious reasons for conquering kingdoms.
 
Why would Cosmopolitan nature allow Great Holy Wars? It looks like quite a religion without religious reasons for conquering kingdoms.
I'd imagine most setups will allow GHW. Any that don't will be the exception and have really good reasons for disabling it.
 
I'd imagine most setups will allow GHW. Any that don't will be the exception and have really good reasons for disabling it.
Well, for now I can imagine only one nature with better reasons - Peaceful.
 
Bah, nothing will stop me from declaring the Suomenusko Great Peaceful Holy War for Anatolia! It's the only logical course of action!
 
This is, hands down, shaping to be one of the best expansions! Oh, how I want to reform into a proselytizing West African Temporal woodoo shaman and convert everyone to one true faith of desert spirits and SHIKAKA!
 
What is the difference between nature and doctrine? (From a rp perspective.)

My impression is that "nature" is what the religion is, while "doctrine" is what it espouses. I think, anyway.
 
Same new mechanics (as in not already in the game) as :
Allowed citie holdings (kings of the people) . (with maybe lower holding limit)
Oldest secular rouler as religious head. (elder council)
Could be fun too.
As well some more storie like version.

Also heresies based on "a doctrine snap" would be clearly a nice addition.
(Cristian heresies are often like this in the game)
 
Same new mechanics (as in not already in the game) as :
Allowed citie holdings (kings of the people) . (with maybe lower holding limit)
Oldest secular rouler as religious head. (elder council)
Could be fun too.
As well some more storie like version.

Also heresies based on "a doctrine snap" would be clearly a nice addition.
(Cristian heresies are often like this in the game)
Elder council might be "oldest land holding priest" as religious head, or even a lack of a religious head as such, but some sort of boost for hosting one of the oldest X priests.

I strongly look forwards to seeing all of the options, and I expect it to be very moddable.
 
So if HF unlocks playing as pagans, is TOG essentially just deprecated now?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems as though TOG now just will cost a similar amount but give you less.
To round off, here’s a few of our favorite reformation setups from us in the Dev Team:
@Silfae
Wait, how long has Silfae been an employee of Paradox? I thought he was just a modder.
 
So if HF unlocks playing as pagans, is TOG essentially just deprecated now?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems as though TOG now just will cost a similar amount but give you less.

Wait, how long has Silfae been an employee of Paradox? I thought he was just a modder.
The start date for TOG won't be included. Though if you have Charlemagne, chances are that you're using that start date for the quantity of playable pagans.
 
Sorry, was so excited after seeing this that I didn't read through the thread other than dev responses: somewhere in any of the available options, can I get uhhhhhhhhhhh
communal property/land ownership
or something akin?

Edit: not the perfect analogy given these aren't in the ck2 pagan grouping here, but for comparing and contrasting, the Mazdaki, by some accounts the Qarmatians (yes I realize they were something rather different (and also slaves were involved and- look this is why I mentioned comparing and contrasting okay)) and some others (admittedly also not in ck2's definition of pagan) come up, for the sort of thing I'm wondering about


Different edit: didn't think think this was going to be noticed/responded to quickly enough that it would significantly alter the message quoted, sorry RBF
 
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Sorry, was so excited after seeing this that I didn't' read through the thread other than dev responses: somewhere in any of the available options, can I get uhhhhhhhhhhh
communal property ownership
or something akin?

What.
 
I just wonder, why everyone is talking about 5 years old expansion? :) Everyone who cares, already have it for eons. Everyone who didn't buy it yet...well they will not buy it.
As for new players...well, it is hard to understand what to buy and what not already, but I think Paradox can really start bundling expansions efficiently - like creating a base bundle with base game and everything up to, but not including the Conclave, with discounts on every expansion in a pack. Wait, they already have it I assume. I just checked - there is a
Crusader Kings II: Dynasty Starter Pack
on Steam which is currently on sale for overall 60% discount or so. It currently costs less, than base game by default. And it includes TOG, WoL, SoI, LoR and eve 'usless' designer (who needs it if it breaks achievements anyways :p)
Quite a way to start!
 
The hype is real, and I couldn't be more excited for it.

However, I was disappointed to see that every feature in the much-anticiapted Reform Religion dialog was present. You showed us the Nature menu, but what of Features and Leadership?