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CK2 Dev Diary #88 - A Faith In My Own Image

Greetings!

Bit of a sneaky DevDiary today - this Friday (when we usually post Dev Diaries) is the time for Midsummer celebrations here in Sweden, so we wouldn't be able to answer your questions! Tomorrow we'll be busy eating pickled herring and getting rained on, but today we're here for you!

By now it’s hardly a secret that the two main focuses for the Holy Fury expansion are going to be Catholicism as well as Paganism. Playing as a Catholic is core to the game, with a grounded set of rules for you to adhere to (and abuse). Playing a Pagan, in contrast, is a more visceral and instantly gratifying experience - with a strong emphasis on dynamism compared to the more rigid christian faiths. Before going any further, it’s worth noting that the Pagan religious group will be unlocked and playable with Holy Fury.

With Holy Fury, reforming a Pagan faith is no longer a one-click type of deal. Instead you’ll be able to tailor the new religion to become exactly what you want it to be through the new Reformation interface:
ReformationDD_ReformView.png


You will be able to open and preview this screen at any point while playing an unreformed pagan, allowing you to plan ahead what type of features you want to pick. We’ve also taken this opportunity to make the Bön religion reformable, to provide equal opportunity to the eastern Pagans.
ReformationDD_FeaturePicker.png


There are three different types of ‘slots’ to be filled in, the Nature, Doctrine and Leadership of the religion. The default selection will be thematically chosen depending on what faith you’re reforming - though there’s nothing stopping you from picking wildly divergent features, such as a Pacifistic Nature for the Germanic religion.

While most features will be available to all pagan religions, they will all have one unique doctrine that only they can pick. This is to enhance the differences between the various unreformed pagan faiths. The Germanic special feature will, for example, contain Seafaring and Prepared Invasions - something the other religions must spend two doctrine slots to get.

The possibilities with reformation are near endless, you’ll be able to make a religion that suits your specific needs. For example, if you’re surrounded by other religions (very common if playing Zun or Bön for example) the Cosmopolitan Nature would be advised, as then you can intermarry with your neighbors to create non-aggression pacts. If you’re tired of the Abrahamic religions and their incessant Crusades, you can adopt a Warmongering Nature combined with a Bloodthirsty Gods doctrine to really show them what you think of their weak rituals.

As there’s too many features for us to bring up right now, I’ll save them for a future Dev Diary. Worth noting is that several of the Doctrines you can choose will contain special events and decisions tied to them, so even if you’ve already played a game once where you reform a Pagan faith - you might just want to play another one, to see what could have been different.

To round off, here’s a few of our favorite reformation setups from us in the Dev Team:

ReformationDD_ReformViewRageair.png

Starting off with my own choice, I’m all about creating chaos - and there’s no greater way to achieve that than to promote not only close-kin marriage, but also harems on top of that! Once during a multiplayer with the Dev Team I managed to reform the religion most of us was playing into something similar to this. They were confused when their children started marrying each other, to say the least!

ReformationDD_ReformViewSnowcrystal.png

@Snow Crystal I like playing tall, so I like boosts that let me control who the Heir is, as well as making sure the heir is as popular as possible. I can't stand having a Religious Head that tells me what to do, and think Autocephalous is pretty cool. I don't really care about spreading my faith outside of my borders - if anything, I’d prefer everything outside my borders to be heathenous, so that I get more of a challenge!

ReformationDD_ReformViewSilfae.jpg

@Silfae Usually upon reforming, my dynasty ends up alone against a world of infidels. The quickest way to spread the faith when in those circumstances is through military action, hence the need for a Warmongering Nature. Picking the Astrology Doctrine unlocks the Zodiac traits for my characters, giving them various attribute boosts, while Haruspicy can help me influence the morale of my armies (for better or worse). Furthermore, since Astrology and Haruspicy are synergistic Doctrines, by combining them I gain access to additional perks that would have otherwise been out of reach for me... as well as ending up with an extremely superstitious religion.

ReformationDD-CJ.JPG

@Tuscany One of my favorite reformation combinations is mixing 'Bloodthirsty Gods’ and ‘Haruspicy'. Being able to sacrifice people to your gods and get rewarded for it is great fun, and when combined with Haruspicy (the art of reading an animal's entrails to predict the future) you can even cut apart your prisoners and see whether you will be lucky in future wars. Of course I pick ‘Temporal’ to allow me to rule over all of this as the conduit between god and man, and ‘Peaceful’ because non-violence is obviously the best strategy.
 
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I hope everything's going great for you on the new project, but I can't help but feel sad. You gave CK2 so much... and your enthusiasm for moddability is a boon to any project you work on.
I'm having a lot of fun on the new project, though I do still miss CK2 at times. It'll always have a place in my heart.
 
Holy crap, this is like one of the things i wanted most in CK2! Even more reasons to play a pagan that is not germanic!


Is it possible to increase the amount of doctrines and stuff with modding? That would be pretty neat
 
I was doubting this expansian a bit, but I'm starting to get more and more interested.

Minor flavor that is tied specifically to a religion, such as the Zunist Feast, is always retained, main features can be overridden depending on choice (as I mentioned above, if, for example, the original religion is Warmongering and you reform it to be Peaceful, it will not obtain the features of Peaceful on top of its warlike bonuses, but instead lose one thing for the other.

Do I read this correctly that the unreformed pagan religions already have some features (Nature? Doctrine?) of this system?
I would love for this to mean that there's going to be more to differentiate the different (non-Germanic) pagans.
 
I have 2 question :
  1. Apparently, it's the nature who decide if the religion have acces to the "great holy war cb", and the leadership is independant of this. Does that mean that you can have an autocephaly and the great holy war ? And that the Orthodox/Miaphysite will finally have it too ? (god it would be awesome)
  2. Is the new crusade still a great holy war ? And is it possible to have something similar on a pagan religion ?
Love your works guys.

Orthodx is missing the Great Holy War because it makes no sense historically for them, not because of autocephaly.
 
I was doubting this expansian a bit, but I'm starting to get more and more interested.

Do I read this correctly that the unreformed pagan religions already have some features (Nature? Doctrine?) of this system?
I would love for this to mean that there's going to be more to differentiate the different (non-Germanic) pagans.
The base features of unreformed religions are largely unchanged. In the example above, unreformed Germanic (in the current public version of the game as well) have higher aggression, no raised levy penalty, etc., if you reform the Norse faith to be Pacifist though, you will lose these boosts in exchange for the ones given by the Peaceful Nature, given that they are incompatible with each other.
 
The base features of unreformed religions are largely unchanged. In the example above, unreformed Germanic (in the current public version of the game as well) have higher aggression, no raised levy penalty, etc., if you reform the Norse faith to be Pacifist though, you will lose these boosts in exchange for the ones given by the Peaceful Nature, given that they are incompatible with each other.
I really wonder what the Peaceful nature does... You have to tell us! Or at least to tell me if that's representing Jain behaviour like I think
 
Yeah I know what Polygamy is, I was just wondering whether it and concubinage have two different doctrines and whether concubinage is even still obtainable by reformed religions or whether it gets replaced by polygamy.

Given how all unreformed pagan religions feature concubinage I expect it will be a standard feature of all pagan religions except those that specifically take the polygamy doctrine.
 
Hopefully it's not too late to change this (and that it hasn't already been requested 100 times), but please let us be coronated by the high priest/council (or local leader if we choose autcephaly) once we reform our pagan religion. Would be a bit strange to only have a special crowning thing by the pope if there's someone equivalent in our faith.
 
About modding? is there possible to add more slots and modify doctrines even add new?
Religious features are entirely moddable. They can be added, changed, removed, the AI's behavior to select them can be modified, etc. Although, naturally, changing the Reformation interface itself is a bit harder than simply adding new Doctrines to the available list.
 
Religious features are entirely moddable. They can be added, changed, removed, the AI's behavior to select them can be modified, etc. Although, naturally, changing the Reformation interface itself is a bit harder than simply adding new Doctrines to the available list.


Thanks? but still possible? or its hardcoded feature?
 
@Silfae

I have a question regarding the reformation.

Suppose an "aggressive style germanic AI character" manage to set his/her own german pagan reformation. Then you manage to crawl your way to the top or take enough land to "start" a german reformation of your own.

In this sceanrio can you change the the reformation's nature/doctrine/leader to something else? For example, change warmongering to cosmopolitan?
 
@Silfae

I have a question regarding the reformation.

Suppose an "aggressive style germanic AI character" manage to set his/her own german pagan reformation. Then you manage to crawl your way to the top or take enough land to "start" a german reformation of your own.

In this sceanrio can you change the the reformation's nature/doctrine/leader to something else? For example, change warmongering to cosmopolitan?
Looks like it's permanent, so no. Each faith currently only gets one reformation and that's it.
 
A bit late to the party (didn't think there would be a dev diary at all this week, and certainly not a day early...), `but a few questions:

- Have there been any changes to the moddability surrounding the requirements for reforming (50 % MA and at least 3 holy sites under your control in vanilla right now), e.g. making it possible to script in a way for sufficiently large realms to reform even if they don't have any holy sites?

- Will the "Marry neighbouring infidels" stuff be added to any non-pagan religions (possibly with some limits) so that you could have e.g. the Jewish rulers in Abyssinia intermarry with the Christians around them?

- Will the chance for your co-religionists to convert to your new faith depend on how close it is to the expected reformation, e.g. Tengri rulers largely refusing a reformation that promotes peace?

- Have there been any changes to heresies for reformed religions? The Old Whatevers are rather boring, and you pretty much never want to convert back because you lose so much stuff (good succession laws, holy wars, etc.)...

- Will Zealous pagans work a bit more towards reforming than they currently do (e.g. by actually trying to secure holy sites)?
 
The base features of unreformed religions are largely unchanged. In the example above, unreformed Germanic (in the current public version of the game as well) have higher aggression, no raised levy penalty, etc., if you reform the Norse faith to be Pacifist though, you will lose these boosts in exchange for the ones given by the Peaceful Nature, given that they are incompatible with each other.
Hmmm, so choosing a nature opposite to the unreformed faith will cancel out those bonuses, but what about not incompatible natures?
As an example (taking Germanic), I understand choosing the Peaceful nature will remove those bonuses. I assume the unreformed nature is Warmongering, so I guess choosing Warmongering at reformation will maintain those bonuses or improve them? If that's the case, what happens when you choose Cosmopolitan or Proselytizing nature? Will you lose those unreformed bonuses because you picked a different nature, or will you keep them since the new nature is not opposite to the original?