• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

CK2 Dev Diary #88 - A Faith In My Own Image

Greetings!

Bit of a sneaky DevDiary today - this Friday (when we usually post Dev Diaries) is the time for Midsummer celebrations here in Sweden, so we wouldn't be able to answer your questions! Tomorrow we'll be busy eating pickled herring and getting rained on, but today we're here for you!

By now it’s hardly a secret that the two main focuses for the Holy Fury expansion are going to be Catholicism as well as Paganism. Playing as a Catholic is core to the game, with a grounded set of rules for you to adhere to (and abuse). Playing a Pagan, in contrast, is a more visceral and instantly gratifying experience - with a strong emphasis on dynamism compared to the more rigid christian faiths. Before going any further, it’s worth noting that the Pagan religious group will be unlocked and playable with Holy Fury.

With Holy Fury, reforming a Pagan faith is no longer a one-click type of deal. Instead you’ll be able to tailor the new religion to become exactly what you want it to be through the new Reformation interface:
ReformationDD_ReformView.png


You will be able to open and preview this screen at any point while playing an unreformed pagan, allowing you to plan ahead what type of features you want to pick. We’ve also taken this opportunity to make the Bön religion reformable, to provide equal opportunity to the eastern Pagans.
ReformationDD_FeaturePicker.png


There are three different types of ‘slots’ to be filled in, the Nature, Doctrine and Leadership of the religion. The default selection will be thematically chosen depending on what faith you’re reforming - though there’s nothing stopping you from picking wildly divergent features, such as a Pacifistic Nature for the Germanic religion.

While most features will be available to all pagan religions, they will all have one unique doctrine that only they can pick. This is to enhance the differences between the various unreformed pagan faiths. The Germanic special feature will, for example, contain Seafaring and Prepared Invasions - something the other religions must spend two doctrine slots to get.

The possibilities with reformation are near endless, you’ll be able to make a religion that suits your specific needs. For example, if you’re surrounded by other religions (very common if playing Zun or Bön for example) the Cosmopolitan Nature would be advised, as then you can intermarry with your neighbors to create non-aggression pacts. If you’re tired of the Abrahamic religions and their incessant Crusades, you can adopt a Warmongering Nature combined with a Bloodthirsty Gods doctrine to really show them what you think of their weak rituals.

As there’s too many features for us to bring up right now, I’ll save them for a future Dev Diary. Worth noting is that several of the Doctrines you can choose will contain special events and decisions tied to them, so even if you’ve already played a game once where you reform a Pagan faith - you might just want to play another one, to see what could have been different.

To round off, here’s a few of our favorite reformation setups from us in the Dev Team:

ReformationDD_ReformViewRageair.png

Starting off with my own choice, I’m all about creating chaos - and there’s no greater way to achieve that than to promote not only close-kin marriage, but also harems on top of that! Once during a multiplayer with the Dev Team I managed to reform the religion most of us was playing into something similar to this. They were confused when their children started marrying each other, to say the least!

ReformationDD_ReformViewSnowcrystal.png

@Snow Crystal I like playing tall, so I like boosts that let me control who the Heir is, as well as making sure the heir is as popular as possible. I can't stand having a Religious Head that tells me what to do, and think Autocephalous is pretty cool. I don't really care about spreading my faith outside of my borders - if anything, I’d prefer everything outside my borders to be heathenous, so that I get more of a challenge!

ReformationDD_ReformViewSilfae.jpg

@Silfae Usually upon reforming, my dynasty ends up alone against a world of infidels. The quickest way to spread the faith when in those circumstances is through military action, hence the need for a Warmongering Nature. Picking the Astrology Doctrine unlocks the Zodiac traits for my characters, giving them various attribute boosts, while Haruspicy can help me influence the morale of my armies (for better or worse). Furthermore, since Astrology and Haruspicy are synergistic Doctrines, by combining them I gain access to additional perks that would have otherwise been out of reach for me... as well as ending up with an extremely superstitious religion.

ReformationDD-CJ.JPG

@Tuscany One of my favorite reformation combinations is mixing 'Bloodthirsty Gods’ and ‘Haruspicy'. Being able to sacrifice people to your gods and get rewarded for it is great fun, and when combined with Haruspicy (the art of reading an animal's entrails to predict the future) you can even cut apart your prisoners and see whether you will be lucky in future wars. Of course I pick ‘Temporal’ to allow me to rule over all of this as the conduit between god and man, and ‘Peaceful’ because non-violence is obviously the best strategy.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions:
Looking forward to this immensely, but I've got one final question that will decide whether or not I get this DLC:
Will we be able to make incestuous religions?
When I saw this topic, I had one question, and you just answered it:
It took seven pages.
 
Last edited:
When I saw this topic, I had one question, and you just answered it:
It took seven pages.
It's written in the dd
Starting off with my own choice, I’m all about creating chaos - and there’s no greater way to achieve that than to promote not only close-kin marriage, but also harems on top of that! Once during a multiplayer with the Dev Team I managed to reform the religion most of us was playing into something similar to this. They were confused when their children started marrying each other, to say the least!
That's the Divine Marriage
 
I couldn't find if it was asked earlier in the thread so apologies if I missed it. Will there be any negative effects on the ability of the AI to reform, I love seeing Pagans reform when I'm playing so I would be sad if that happened a lot less because of the update.
 
While I'm not opposed to the idea of "Divine Marraige" becoming a very viable thing for reforming a religion. Why implement it?

It seems to make Zoroastrianism less attractive, especially since in pretty much all starts it almost doesn't exist. It it done just to preserve the mechanics outside of Zoroastrianism?

Also, was this even considered (that we know of) in the talks of "actual" attempts at pagan reformation?
 
While I'm not opposed to the idea of "Divine Marraige" becoming a very viable thing for reforming a religion. Why implement it?

It seems to make Zoroastrianism less attractive, especially since in pretty much all starts it almost doesn't exist. It it done just to preserve the mechanics outside of Zoroastrianism?

Also, was this even considered (that we know of) in the talks of "actual" attempts at pagan reformation?
How many examples of trying to reform pagan religions can you think of?
I honestly can't think of any that come to mind.
 
How many examples of trying to reform pagan religions can you think of?
I honestly can't think of any that come to mind.
I could've sworn there was an attempt in modern Yugoslavia where a Slavic king tried to standardize the religion. Though I think that was around the late 1200s, when it was mostly too late to ebb the flow of the Christian influence.
 
I could've sworn there was an attempt in modern Yugoslavia where a Slavic king tried to standardize the religion. Though I think that was around the late 1200s, when it was mostly too late to ebb the flow of the Christian influence.
It's possible.

I'd be fascinated to read up on it if you can find a good English language report or source on it.
 
It's possible.

I'd be fascinated to read up on it if you can find a good English language report or source on it.
Im thinking of the wrong dates. The attempt was in around 980. For the most part, Slavic Paganisim got wiped out in 1200.

(Pulled from Wikipedia, "Slavic Paganisim")

"In 980 CE,[39] in Kievan Rus', led by the Great Prince Vladimir, there was an attempt to unify the various beliefs and priestly practices of Slavic religion in order to bind together the Slavic peoples in the growing centralised state. Vladimir canonised a number of deities, to whom he erected a temple on the hills of the capital Kiev.[40] These deities, recorded in the Primary Chronicle, were five: Perun, Xors Dazhbog,[41] Stribog, Simargl and Mokosh.[42]Various other deities were worshipped by the common people, notably Veles who had a temple in the merchant's district of Podil of the capital itself.[43] According to scholars, Vladimir's project consisted in a number of reforms that he had already started by the 970s, and which were aimed at preserving the traditions of the kins and making Kiev the spiritual centre of East Slavdom.[44]"
 
Last edited:
Also if anyone is interested we just did a bit of an estimate and it seems like there are around 3000 possible combinations. Our maths might be a bit off though as some doctrines exclude others but either way its quite a few! :)

Edited to be a more accurate number because our programmer can't math.


Holy Fuc... Fury.
 
Is it possible to get a cardinal college System for pagan religions. Also would it be possible to combine it with the feudal head of Religion. With an Anti-Fylkir Mechanic. So if some other King is elected Fzlkir I declare myself Anti-Fylkir and go to war to press it.
 
Feels odd that polygamy is treated as the exception, when it was the norm; the Christians were pretty much the only religious group who championed monogamy.
 
Damnit, so now i need to wait to this being released on top of the compatibility patch from WTSMS to finally start my AAR.

Its like Paradox wants me to play other games until then xD
 
If the reformer of a pagan faith happens to be the head of the devil worshiping society for that faith, can he make the devil worship mainstream, and a new angel worship society is created?
 
My guesses:

Proselytizing - Christianity
Dogmatic - Islam
Cosmopolitan - Eastern
Warmongering - Offensive Pagan Religions
Unyielding - Defensive Pagan Religions
Peaceful - Jain?
 
Are the requirements for reforming going to stay the same? If so, can I suggest that it should require your family to own a certain amount of holy sites rather than you personally? Generally CK2 is pretty good at putting you into the shoes of a medival ruler, but pagan reformations is a big exception. Most kings were okay with their lands being split among their heirs as they saw the amount of land owned by their family as the most important part, but the pagan reformation requirements force you to struggle against this mechanic and try to avoid it at all cost.