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CK2 Dev Diary #88 - A Faith In My Own Image

Greetings!

Bit of a sneaky DevDiary today - this Friday (when we usually post Dev Diaries) is the time for Midsummer celebrations here in Sweden, so we wouldn't be able to answer your questions! Tomorrow we'll be busy eating pickled herring and getting rained on, but today we're here for you!

By now it’s hardly a secret that the two main focuses for the Holy Fury expansion are going to be Catholicism as well as Paganism. Playing as a Catholic is core to the game, with a grounded set of rules for you to adhere to (and abuse). Playing a Pagan, in contrast, is a more visceral and instantly gratifying experience - with a strong emphasis on dynamism compared to the more rigid christian faiths. Before going any further, it’s worth noting that the Pagan religious group will be unlocked and playable with Holy Fury.

With Holy Fury, reforming a Pagan faith is no longer a one-click type of deal. Instead you’ll be able to tailor the new religion to become exactly what you want it to be through the new Reformation interface:
ReformationDD_ReformView.png


You will be able to open and preview this screen at any point while playing an unreformed pagan, allowing you to plan ahead what type of features you want to pick. We’ve also taken this opportunity to make the Bön religion reformable, to provide equal opportunity to the eastern Pagans.
ReformationDD_FeaturePicker.png


There are three different types of ‘slots’ to be filled in, the Nature, Doctrine and Leadership of the religion. The default selection will be thematically chosen depending on what faith you’re reforming - though there’s nothing stopping you from picking wildly divergent features, such as a Pacifistic Nature for the Germanic religion.

While most features will be available to all pagan religions, they will all have one unique doctrine that only they can pick. This is to enhance the differences between the various unreformed pagan faiths. The Germanic special feature will, for example, contain Seafaring and Prepared Invasions - something the other religions must spend two doctrine slots to get.

The possibilities with reformation are near endless, you’ll be able to make a religion that suits your specific needs. For example, if you’re surrounded by other religions (very common if playing Zun or Bön for example) the Cosmopolitan Nature would be advised, as then you can intermarry with your neighbors to create non-aggression pacts. If you’re tired of the Abrahamic religions and their incessant Crusades, you can adopt a Warmongering Nature combined with a Bloodthirsty Gods doctrine to really show them what you think of their weak rituals.

As there’s too many features for us to bring up right now, I’ll save them for a future Dev Diary. Worth noting is that several of the Doctrines you can choose will contain special events and decisions tied to them, so even if you’ve already played a game once where you reform a Pagan faith - you might just want to play another one, to see what could have been different.

To round off, here’s a few of our favorite reformation setups from us in the Dev Team:

ReformationDD_ReformViewRageair.png

Starting off with my own choice, I’m all about creating chaos - and there’s no greater way to achieve that than to promote not only close-kin marriage, but also harems on top of that! Once during a multiplayer with the Dev Team I managed to reform the religion most of us was playing into something similar to this. They were confused when their children started marrying each other, to say the least!

ReformationDD_ReformViewSnowcrystal.png

@Snow Crystal I like playing tall, so I like boosts that let me control who the Heir is, as well as making sure the heir is as popular as possible. I can't stand having a Religious Head that tells me what to do, and think Autocephalous is pretty cool. I don't really care about spreading my faith outside of my borders - if anything, I’d prefer everything outside my borders to be heathenous, so that I get more of a challenge!

ReformationDD_ReformViewSilfae.jpg

@Silfae Usually upon reforming, my dynasty ends up alone against a world of infidels. The quickest way to spread the faith when in those circumstances is through military action, hence the need for a Warmongering Nature. Picking the Astrology Doctrine unlocks the Zodiac traits for my characters, giving them various attribute boosts, while Haruspicy can help me influence the morale of my armies (for better or worse). Furthermore, since Astrology and Haruspicy are synergistic Doctrines, by combining them I gain access to additional perks that would have otherwise been out of reach for me... as well as ending up with an extremely superstitious religion.

ReformationDD-CJ.JPG

@Tuscany One of my favorite reformation combinations is mixing 'Bloodthirsty Gods’ and ‘Haruspicy'. Being able to sacrifice people to your gods and get rewarded for it is great fun, and when combined with Haruspicy (the art of reading an animal's entrails to predict the future) you can even cut apart your prisoners and see whether you will be lucky in future wars. Of course I pick ‘Temporal’ to allow me to rule over all of this as the conduit between god and man, and ‘Peaceful’ because non-violence is obviously the best strategy.
 
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I just wonder what’ll happen if I make a Republic we’re the leader is the religion head
Same thing that happens to a reformed Norse merchant republic. Fylkirate passes on to the reformer's heir regardless of whether or not the republic's primary title does. It pretty much always stays in the same dynasty until it can't.
 
Now Taoism is no longer one of the worst religions but it is the only one

Yeah, I noticed that Taoism is only remotely fun if you're playing with Umbra Spherae or any other sort of china mod that I don't know of. On one hand that -2 revolt risk school of thought is pretty powerful. On the other hand, the other schools of thought are terrible, and the religion is lackluster at best.
 
Personally, I wouldn't be mad if DLC release would be delayed couple of months because devs decided to work on heresies or other religious stuff. However, I'm afraid that they have deadlines to accomplish :(
 
Also if anyone is interested we just did a bit of an estimate and it seems like there are around 3000 possible combinations. Our maths might be a bit off though as some doctrines exclude others but either way its quite a few! :)

Edited to be a more accurate number because our programmer can't math.

*throws all zhe monies at you*

I want this. I want it now.
 
Given unlimited development resources, sure.

Sadly we don't live in a world with unlimited development resources. For instance, I did not get the chance to clone myself before I got moved over to <REDACTED> two months ago, so I'm no longer on the CK2 team.

Could that be something that's worked on in time? A sort of long term patch sort of deal?
 
Yes, Aztec Reformation will use this new system if you own Holy Fury.

This actually reminds me, and it may be slightly off topic- are there any plans to give the Aztec Emperor and their invasion a treatment sort of like that of the Jade Emperoer? When that expansion came out that seemed like a possibility or something to be explored.
 
Reforming religions is a bit difficult, especially Germanic. It's not very plausible to have to take a large chunk of Scandinavia just so that you can "organize" your pagan religion. Perhaps more holy sites? Or split Germanic and Norse so that Germans and Scandinavians can do their own thing without being forced to cross paths?
 
Reforming religions is a bit difficult, especially Germanic. It's not very plausible to have to take a large chunk of Scandinavia just so that you can "organize" your pagan religion. Perhaps more holy sites? Or split Germanic and Norse so that Germans and Scandinavians can do their own thing without being forced to cross paths?

Splitting Norse and Germanic makes absolutelly no sense. They are one and the same faith with just some flavours. Otherwise you would have to split Slavic Paganism in South Slavic, East Slavic etc. Or Baltic Paganism in Lithuanian and Prussian,.
 
What about having the option for a reformed religion to excommunicate, beatify, and canonize?

Beatify and canonize are depending on the characters piety level. Canonize is global, beatify is fixed location.
 
Will any of those features also work for unreformed religions / non-pagans. For example, does unreformed Aztec religion start with the effects of bloodthirsty?
 
Feels odd that polygamy is treated as the exception, when it was the norm; the Christians were pretty much the only religious group who championed monogamy.
The Roman Empire was where Christianity spread the most and the Greeks and Romans already widely practiced monogamy before Christianity. The pre-Christian Northern-European tribes usually weren't very strict about it one way or the other but usually had one wife with several concubines and this practice continued even when they became Christian, in particular among the Germanics.
 
Why not take advantage of the system, to add the possibility to reform monotheist heresies with the same system ? We would have,, then, is a choice between trying to flip the heresy to becomef the mainstream religion, or just create a new one.