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CK2 Dev Diary #88 - A Faith In My Own Image

Greetings!

Bit of a sneaky DevDiary today - this Friday (when we usually post Dev Diaries) is the time for Midsummer celebrations here in Sweden, so we wouldn't be able to answer your questions! Tomorrow we'll be busy eating pickled herring and getting rained on, but today we're here for you!

By now it’s hardly a secret that the two main focuses for the Holy Fury expansion are going to be Catholicism as well as Paganism. Playing as a Catholic is core to the game, with a grounded set of rules for you to adhere to (and abuse). Playing a Pagan, in contrast, is a more visceral and instantly gratifying experience - with a strong emphasis on dynamism compared to the more rigid christian faiths. Before going any further, it’s worth noting that the Pagan religious group will be unlocked and playable with Holy Fury.

With Holy Fury, reforming a Pagan faith is no longer a one-click type of deal. Instead you’ll be able to tailor the new religion to become exactly what you want it to be through the new Reformation interface:
ReformationDD_ReformView.png


You will be able to open and preview this screen at any point while playing an unreformed pagan, allowing you to plan ahead what type of features you want to pick. We’ve also taken this opportunity to make the Bön religion reformable, to provide equal opportunity to the eastern Pagans.
ReformationDD_FeaturePicker.png


There are three different types of ‘slots’ to be filled in, the Nature, Doctrine and Leadership of the religion. The default selection will be thematically chosen depending on what faith you’re reforming - though there’s nothing stopping you from picking wildly divergent features, such as a Pacifistic Nature for the Germanic religion.

While most features will be available to all pagan religions, they will all have one unique doctrine that only they can pick. This is to enhance the differences between the various unreformed pagan faiths. The Germanic special feature will, for example, contain Seafaring and Prepared Invasions - something the other religions must spend two doctrine slots to get.

The possibilities with reformation are near endless, you’ll be able to make a religion that suits your specific needs. For example, if you’re surrounded by other religions (very common if playing Zun or Bön for example) the Cosmopolitan Nature would be advised, as then you can intermarry with your neighbors to create non-aggression pacts. If you’re tired of the Abrahamic religions and their incessant Crusades, you can adopt a Warmongering Nature combined with a Bloodthirsty Gods doctrine to really show them what you think of their weak rituals.

As there’s too many features for us to bring up right now, I’ll save them for a future Dev Diary. Worth noting is that several of the Doctrines you can choose will contain special events and decisions tied to them, so even if you’ve already played a game once where you reform a Pagan faith - you might just want to play another one, to see what could have been different.

To round off, here’s a few of our favorite reformation setups from us in the Dev Team:

ReformationDD_ReformViewRageair.png

Starting off with my own choice, I’m all about creating chaos - and there’s no greater way to achieve that than to promote not only close-kin marriage, but also harems on top of that! Once during a multiplayer with the Dev Team I managed to reform the religion most of us was playing into something similar to this. They were confused when their children started marrying each other, to say the least!

ReformationDD_ReformViewSnowcrystal.png

@Snow Crystal I like playing tall, so I like boosts that let me control who the Heir is, as well as making sure the heir is as popular as possible. I can't stand having a Religious Head that tells me what to do, and think Autocephalous is pretty cool. I don't really care about spreading my faith outside of my borders - if anything, I’d prefer everything outside my borders to be heathenous, so that I get more of a challenge!

ReformationDD_ReformViewSilfae.jpg

@Silfae Usually upon reforming, my dynasty ends up alone against a world of infidels. The quickest way to spread the faith when in those circumstances is through military action, hence the need for a Warmongering Nature. Picking the Astrology Doctrine unlocks the Zodiac traits for my characters, giving them various attribute boosts, while Haruspicy can help me influence the morale of my armies (for better or worse). Furthermore, since Astrology and Haruspicy are synergistic Doctrines, by combining them I gain access to additional perks that would have otherwise been out of reach for me... as well as ending up with an extremely superstitious religion.

ReformationDD-CJ.JPG

@Tuscany One of my favorite reformation combinations is mixing 'Bloodthirsty Gods’ and ‘Haruspicy'. Being able to sacrifice people to your gods and get rewarded for it is great fun, and when combined with Haruspicy (the art of reading an animal's entrails to predict the future) you can even cut apart your prisoners and see whether you will be lucky in future wars. Of course I pick ‘Temporal’ to allow me to rule over all of this as the conduit between god and man, and ‘Peaceful’ because non-violence is obviously the best strategy.
 
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I think this all sounds great, but I have one concern - that I will never be able to try this!
I have tried to play as a pagan many times, but it seems SO impossible to get all the necessary provinces to reform, so I have never tried it.
Will the DLC give me a way of reforming without having to conquer a vast area?
 
I think this all sounds great, but I have one concern - that I will never be able to try this!
I have tried to play as a pagan many times, but it seems SO impossible to get all the necessary provinces to reform, so I have never tried it.
Will the DLC give me a way of reforming without having to conquer a vast area?

Try playing Romuva and start in Lithuania. There are 3 holy sites inside the kingdom that you can grab easily by picking the ambition to become king of Lithuania and subjugating all your neighbors. Baltic cultures are also pretty good because the cultural building gives a bonus to Heavy Infantry, which is the predominant component of feudal armies.
 
I think this all sounds great, but I have one concern - that I will never be able to try this!
I have tried to play as a pagan many times, but it seems SO impossible to get all the necessary provinces to reform, so I have never tried it.
Will the DLC give me a way of reforming without having to conquer a vast area?

Thats easy. Just conquer them. In 1 maybe 2 Generations this is possible. As 769 Ludolfinger I can do this by 40 or even earlier if I’m lucky.
 
1. At first im intrested how it plays out with mods like, Gods mod where you are God or demigod or something, Intrested how it plays out can organizer of faith decleare him/herself as divine, is it moddable to do so.
2. Also is there change to declere himself/herself a prophet or messias like in islam and lead a religion, does it have fylcure mechanic or some other mechanic
3. will christianity be unique or can pagan reform themself to adopt christianity mechanics and have same election system as them with cardinals and pope.
 
I wonder if there's a doctrine that makes your religion like Islam with Secular temple holders/decadence.
Also I wonder how good these religion specific doctrines are, are they generally better than normal doctrines or a combination of 2 other doctrines, etc.

ALSO, will we be able to view a reformed religion's choices even if we aren't part of that religion?
 
Religious features are entirely moddable. They can be added, changed, removed, the AI's behavior to select them can be modified, etc. Although, naturally, changing the Reformation interface itself is a bit harder than simply adding new Doctrines to the available list.
Would it be possible, though, just dependent on creating an actual interface and whatnot, or is that shorthand for the structure as a whole isn't moddable?
 
Too bad the Crusader Kings era doesn't include the time of the Protestant Reformation. That would've...

...

Nah, on second thought, that still wouldn't get me to play Catholics again.
 
I wonder if there's a doctrine that makes your religion like Islam with Secular temple holders/decadence.
Also I wonder how good these religion specific doctrines are, are they generally better than normal doctrines or a combination of 2 other doctrines, etc.

ALSO, will we be able to view a reformed religion's choices even if we aren't part of that religion?

That would fall under leadership. Most likely all the options that are availible for the already existing religions exists, so Pope-wannabe, Caliph-wannabe (like fylkir in TOG), patriarch wannabe and no leader like the indian religions.
Adding decadence to your religions would be interesting though, but they would have to re-do all the events around it since they are islam-specific. You decadent viking dynasty wouldn't have tribes from the desert kicking them out for example.
 
You decadent viking dynasty wouldn't have tribes from the desert kicking them out for example.

To be fair, that event already doesn't make a whole lot of sense if you're based well away from any desert as a Muslim ruler (e.g. you're a Sunni Russia)...
 
To be fair, that event already doesn't make a whole lot of sense if you're based well away from any desert as a Muslim ruler (e.g. you're a Sunni Russia)...

True, but atleast that event makes some kind of sense in 85% of non-weird situations. Honestly it doesn't even make sense for iberian muslims, or indian muslims either. Most of the reforamble, with the possible exception of zunism, religions are distinctly non-desert aligned though. I don't know how hard it would be to just make a check which region you live in and make it "tribal warriors from the forest/mountains/steppes", but I can't imagine it would be impossible, so maybe they have a dogma that gives you decadence, but you get the superior in every way muslim inheritance system for your trouble.

Although even then it's a crappy tradeoff if the buddhist "choose your heir"-system is availible, but it would still be fun for roleplaying purposes. I can imagine a viking republic having "old school tribal warriors" coming out of the deep forests to overthrow the decadent family that is to concerned with peaceful profit to raid for example.
 
Im thinking of the wrong dates. The attempt was in around 980. For the most part, Slavic Paganisim got wiped out in 1200.

(Pulled from Wikipedia, "Slavic Paganisim")

"In 980 CE,[39] in Kievan Rus', led by the Great Prince Vladimir, there was an attempt to unify the various beliefs and priestly practices of Slavic religion in order to bind together the Slavic peoples in the growing centralised state. Vladimir canonised a number of deities, to whom he erected a temple on the hills of the capital Kiev.[40] These deities, recorded in the Primary Chronicle, were five: Perun, Xors Dazhbog,[41] Stribog, Simargl and Mokosh.[42]Various other deities were worshipped by the common people, notably Veles who had a temple in the merchant's district of Podil of the capital itself.[43] According to scholars, Vladimir's project consisted in a number of reforms that he had already started by the 970s, and which were aimed at preserving the traditions of the kins and making Kiev the spiritual centre of East Slavdom.[44]"
Thanks. I'll have to read around it.
 
I can understand why we can't reform non-Pagan religions (outside of the game timeframe?) but it would have been neat if the reformer function could have been used to make (or tweak) custom heresies.
 
I can understand why we can't reform non-Pagan religions (outside of the game timeframe?) but it would have been neat if the reformer function could have been used to make (or tweak) custom heresies.

New scripting commands will make it possible to change features of existing religions through events, so it will be possible to mod in a limited version of that.
 
With the reformation mechanics could it be possible for there to be some sort of schism mechanics too? For example if the reformed pagan religion has come to grow way beyond it's "natural" region (for example north germanic spreading to the steppe or suomenusko to the Mediterranean) there could be a split in the religion. And the splitting faith would change 1 or 2 out of the 4 aspects of the reformed religion, but not something too radical, like going to warlike from peaceful. And the new faith could have holy sites based on the reformed religion and the original religion of the region. The split could also require for a certain amount of time to have passed since reformation, like 100 or 200 years and that there is a priest powerful enough to gain the support for the split and who doesn't like the current religious head.
This would add a lot of depth to the new reformed religions since almost every other major religion has multiple versions of it, beyond just heresies; christianity has catholism, orthodox, nestorian and miaphysite + heresies, and islam has sunni, shiite and ibadi + heresies.