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CK3 Dev Diary #11 - Seduction, Torture and the Intrigue Perk Trees

Welcome and welcome back to all!

This week I’m here to tell you all more about Intrigue: it's not just an act, it's a Lifestyle.

As covered in a previous dev diary, each character Skill has a Lifestyle, and each Lifestyle has three associated Focuses and three Perk trees, which is what we'll be diving into today.

Keep in mind that all values listed below are subject to change!

For Intrigue, the three focuses are:

Intrigue Lifestyle Focuses.PNG

[Skulduggery Focus — Agent Acceptance: +10, Intrigue: +3]
[Temptation Focus — Fertility: +25%, Attraction Opinion: 10, Seduction Scheme Power: +20%]
[Intimidation Focus — Intrigue: +2, Dread Gain: +10%, Natural Dread: +20]


Each perk tree — Schemer, Seducer, and Torturer — concludes with the unlocking of its namesake trait. I know this might be an insurmountable challenge, but feel free to guess which is which:
intrigue lifestyle traits.png

(Ah, is there any greater torture than the desires of the heart...)

I'll also be running down the effects of every unlockable perk that leads to those, and I'm naturally going to start by talking about the Temptation focus, that eternal vice, and the Seducer tree, but first I want to describe its closely related Seduce Scheme.


The Seduce Scheme

Seduction is a little more complicated than it was in CK2, with factors such as the target's personal preferences playing a larger part. Indeed, Scheme Power is not merely affected by your Intrigue, but who you are, and who they are.

That also means that you have to be a little careful. If a target gets annoyed rather than enticed, and you suffer a Critical Failure, they may give you a hard rejection - preventing you from attempting to Seduce them again - or even publicly out you as the lecherous villain you are!

Seduction Rejection.PNG.png



The Seducer Tree

So how will the Seduce tree help you? A few Perks offer straightforward bonuses by increasing your Scheme Power or making you more attractive to those of an appropriate gender and sexuality.

enticing opportunity tt.PNG

[Enticing Opportunity — Seduction Scheme Power: +30%]

smooth operator tt.PNG

[Smooth Operator — Seduction Scheme Success Chance: +25%]

home advantage tt.PNG

[Home Advantage — Seduction Scheme Success Chance against own Courtiers and Guests: +50%]

Others may expand your pool of... available targets.

subtle desire tt.PNG

[Subtle Desire — Removes the Incestuous penalty from your Seduction Schemes]

Just to be clear, this affects the Scheme, not the relationship. If you're caught getting too close to family, you will still suffer consequences.

Similarly, if you find your own sexual preferences getting in the way of who you can Seduce efficiently, there are ways you can overcome that:

unshackled lust tt.PNG

[Unshackled Lust — Removes your attraction penalties in Seduction Schemes]
(There’s no way of overcoming your target’s sexual preferences, though. I’m sorry, but your liege is Just Not That Into You.)


There are perks to help a different kind of “effectiveness” in your Seduce Schemes:

like weeds in a garden tt.PNG

[Like Weeds in a Garden — Fertility: +30%]

And perks to mitigate the consequences of messing up:

graceful recovery tt.PNG

[Graceful Recovery — You can no longer Critically Fail Seduction Schemes]

Ah, the number of times I have desperately needed the Graceful Recovery perk...


Bringing a Lover to your court doesn’t come entirely risk-free, of course, so we also have a Perk to minimise the risk to you, at the unfortunate cost of maximising the risk for them:

Mortal adoration tt.PNG

[Mortal Adoration — Your Lovers are less likely to join Murder Schemes against you. Lovers are more likely to save you in case of attempted Murders.]

What can I say? Not every love story has a happy ending.


The final perk in the tree is the one that grants you the Seducer trait. It comes with increases to Intrigue, Fertility, and a hefty boost to Attraction Opinion for anyone who finds themselves unfortunate enough to be of the relevant sexual orientation. Rulers of the world, lock up your wives! And husbands! And family members! Maybe also yourself for good measure!


Torture

Of course, Intrigue does not merely embody pleasure, but also pain. I'm happy to announce that the fan-favourite of "Torture" is going to be making a return for CK3.

What is it good for? Well, being Dreadful, for one thing, making your vassals fear you. Another benefit is the possibility that a victim will try to bribe you with Secrets to get you to stop. You're going to need those Secrets for leverage anyways, since the victim's family will hold you in utter disdain. Being an avid torturer also comes with a Piety penalty and a loss of Clergy opinion (unless your Faith happens to make exceptions for this kind of thing…).

torture interaction.jpg


The Torturer Tree

Now, we wouldn't let you take the pliers to flesh without giving you a way of getting really good at it, would we? The Torturer tree is all about making your vassals and peasants fear whatever might be going on in your dungeons! Or in your throne room. Or in your presence in general.

It has a series of Dread-increasing effects, as well as adding bonuses to various sources of dread.

dreadful tt.PNG

[Dreadful — Dread Gain: +30%]

divine retribution.PNG

[Divine Retribution — You do not lose Piety or Clergy Opinion from Torturing or Executing others]

prison-feudal complex tt.PNG

[Prison-Feudal Complex — Imprison Chance: +50%]

And of course there are ways of making sure you keep that hard-earned Dread for as long as possible:

forever infamous tt.PNG

[Forever Infamous — Dread Decay: -100%]

Of course, once you start "going off the rails" (as my fellow developers assure me my playstyle should be described as) you need to make sure that it doesn't go unnoticed. Keep the faint of heart in line, and all that.

malice implicit tt.PNG

[Malice Implicit — Dread Gain Per Tyranny: +0.5]

It’s not all about Dread, however. Intimate familiarity with human anatomy can help in other ways, too:

dark insights tt.PNG

[Dark Insights — When you Torture someone: 50% chance to gain either 1 Intrigue or 1 Prowess]

While it’s not a relief for Stress per se (unless you’re particularly sadistic), the Perk tree offers additional side benefits for your poor coping methods:

thriving in chaos tt.PNG

[Thriving in Chaos — Martial and Intrigue Per Stress Level: +1. Prowess Per Stress Level: +2]

Dread (and the actions that give it) is quite powerful on its own, offering alternative ways of controlling your vassals, but what if we could make it even better?

fear tax tt.PNG

[Fear Tax — Increased tax and levy contributions from Intimidated and Cowed vassals]

The last Perk in the tree grants the Torturer trait, which offers a slight Levy and Prowess boost, along with an additional improvement to your Dread gain. This will allow you to keep your Dread exceptionally high as you imprison, revoke, torture and execute to your heart’s content.


The Schemer Tree

Some of you out there are less bombastic in your methods, which brings us to our last tree for this diary. Skulduggery rules the shadows, keeping potential threats in line by more subtle tricks.


It provides a number of different bonuses to your Hostile Schemes, and to your Spymaster’s tasks:

swift execution tt.PNG

[Swift Execution — Murder Scheme Power: +30%]

a job done right.PNG

[A Job Done Right — Hostile Scheme Success Chance: +25]
(Hostile Schemes does not mean Schemes hostile against yourself, but rather Schemes that are categorised as Hostile instead of Personal.)

digging for dirt tt.PNG

[Digging for Dirt — Find Secrets Progress Speed: +25%]

Find Secrets is the Spymaster Council Task you might remember from a few diaries ago.

There are also a handful of defensive measures, should your enemies come looking for revenge:

court of shadows tt.PNG

[Court of Shadows — Disrupt Schemes Effectiveness: +50%]
Disrupt Schemes is another —very useful— Spymaster Task.

prepared for anything tt.PNG

[Prepared for Anything — Enemy Hostile Scheme Success Chance: -25. Enemy Hostile Scheme Success Chance against your Courtiers: -10.]

Once you've unlocked this collection of perks, it will be very hard to turn your own methods against you. You will only really have to worry about people who are your equal as a Schemer. But you should be worrying about those people anyways.

In the previous dev diary about Schemes, you already got a sneak preview of a Scheme to Fabricate Hooks, which becomes available in the Schemer tree, and it's not the only scheme to be unlocked this way:

Truth is relative tt.PNG

[Truth is Relative — Enables the Fabricate Hook Scheme. Find Secrets may also fabricate Hooks.]

kidnapper tt.PNG

[Kidnapper Enables the Abduction Scheme]

Abduction is a criminal scheme, and therefore secret. However, if you succeed, you’re automatically discovered. They're not going to wonder for long whose dungeon they're locked in. You have nothing to worry about, though. The victim will be entirely at your mercy, after all.


But with all these Schemes, and only a single hostile scheme slot, what is a poor little Power Behind the Throne to do? Why, get yourself a second Scheme slot, of course!

twice schemed tt.PNG

[Twice Schemed Max Hostile Schemes: +1]

Lastly, this Perk tree offers up the Schemer trait. Not only does it grant a major bonus to your Intrigue in general. It also significantly boosts your Scheme Power, speeding up the inevitable success of your ingenious plans.


And with that we conclude this week's dev diary. I hope you're already daydreaming about all the ways you can grasp for power, and how to hold on to it once you've got it.

Next week we’ll be diving into the perk trees for the Stewardship lifestyles, so adieu until then!
Just remember to watch your back.
 

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Okay, but isn't it a bit strange that a sadist should not take the full Dread tree as him losing stress while torturing does not work well with Thriving in Chaos?
We don't know what negatives stress have so even with that perk it may still be better to have no stress. It is probably ment to make torture more reasonable path for characters with other personality traits.
 
Wow, um... Have you tried buying them flowers occasionally? Cliched, I know, but something a lot of people actually enjoy. It's about showing that you care, and think about them as much as you did when you first got married. Maybe go on a date somewhere slightly unusual for the two of you, and experience some new things together? And of course, showing them that you're putting in some effort to look good and be desirable for them, even after such a long time together, is sure to be appreciated.

I meant in-game.
 
Incest should definitely be a side perk. Yes, you don't have to use it, but forcing people to take it to get the final perk is not good. From both a game mechanical and RP point of view

And if the AI takes it will probably mean all seducers will be attracted to their siblings. We'll trade all the pregnant 16-year-old princesses for a whole lot of seducers banging their sisters. At least it will make for plenty of blackmail, and keep them away from our daughters and spouses.
 
Have you considered something to make intrigue be used in warfare, stuff like propaganda and spreading disinformation would Obviously be very useful in times of war.
 
Welcome and welcome back to all!
[Subtle Desire — Removes the Incestuous penalty from your Seduction Schemes]

Welcome and welcome back to all!
[Subtle Desire — Removes the Incestuous penalty from your Seduction Schemes]

Oh my! Good to see CK2's primary theme making a comeback.

Not really sure about the complaints people are making about being 'made' to be incestuous to be honest...methinks the perk doesn't automatically say much of anything about the character, just opening an additional option up. Besides, do we even know what the incestuous penalty is yet?

I hope all Lifestyles are like this:)

"Yaaaah! I, for one, have my vassals live in fear and dread of my awesome learning skills!" ;)
 
"Yaaaah! I, for one, have my vassals live in fear and dread of my awesome learning skills!" ;)
Well you can use religion as a tool here and Learning in CK2 do represent how well a character understand it.

Stewardship could represent how well the character understand details and thus discourage vassal missmanagement of their realms and that kind of stuff.
 
I don't even want to know why that's important to you :|
if someone assassinates my genius strong heir and I manage to catch em i dont want to let them go after just one round ;)
 
Excellent...
 
I think the most important question is will we be able to visit their jail cell and give them a tumble? What's the use of having my liege's female hair kidnapped if I can't get back at him for increasing my taxes?
 
Are the hard barriers for schemes gone (like not being able to plot to kill your children, or not being able to try to seduce your parents or children in a religion without divine marriage) and replaced with soft ones, making it harder to successfully pull off but not impossible to even attempt?

Incest should definitely be a side perk. Yes, you don't have to use it, but forcing people to take it to get the final perk is not good. From both a game mechanical and RP point of view
I think you are misunderstanding the perk. All it seems to do is take the incestuous factor out of attraction during a seduction attempt. It doesn't seem like it will make the AI any more likely to seduce their relatives, only be more successful if they do, and you can take the perk and simply choose not to seduce your relatives.
 
Not sure that is a good idea since the risk is that eventually all your characters become good and that remove some flavor and perhaps make the game easier in the long run. I could see some ability to gather items but more for flavor and add history to the dynasty, rather than boosting the characters.

Like stuff such as Crowns of kings you have defeated which would perhaps not do anything other than make what you did more memorable.

My post was a little vague, items like "Grandfather's Favorite Pliers" granting a minor boon, but locked behind prerequisites. Not everyone would have what it takes to pick up their ancestors art form.

Or being able to furnish a work area. Title, flavor text, and small boosts to certain aspects.
 
I see things like the incest perk as being a progression of a character. Some people are naturally able to cross that line, while some cross more and more lines as they grow in both ambition and experience. So, even though you might not like it, you suddenly see enough reasons to sometimes break your own moral codes to get what you want/need.
 
Can we seduce the seducer? Can this be a form of critical failure during a seducing attempt, may be with an associated perk in the seducer tree skill?
Well, it's really a question of who's truly seducing who, isn't it?

Are we finally going to see religion mechanics that allow us to build a religion that can favor intrigue?
No comment :cool:

are characters now able to obtain multiple lifestyle traits?
Yes!

If you torture a character with no secrets for too long, will he drop false secrets just to save him/herself? Making you go after the wrong people?
Not for now at least, unfortunately. The way Secrets currently works means that it's actually more work to set up false Secrets than real ones, and there's no good way for a player to evaluate which may be real and which may be false (except for where you got them from). It's a cool idea we've even talked about internally in the past, but we've prioritised adding more "real" Secrets.

I meant in-game.
Oh! Silly me. It will never be adulterous (or illegal) to seduce your spouse, of course, and you won't critically fail, but apart from that it works similarly to a regular seduction, with some slight bonuses. The events you can get are a little more selective, too, since certain things wouldn't make sense. Climbing the balcony to their chambers, for example.

Have you considered something to make intrigue be used in warfare, stuff like propaganda and spreading disinformation would Obviously be very useful in times of war.
We have thought about this at times, although it's not here in these perk trees. But we do try to focus on how skills in other areas can be used cross-disciplinary, to put it that way. It's also important to us to make sure that the key skill is always the most important one for a thing, though. (For example, Diplomacy might be helpful in certain schemes, but it shouldn't be more useful for than Intrigue is.)
 
I think you are misunderstanding the perk.
No misunderstanding here

and you can take the perk and simply choose not to seduce your relatives
That makes a wasted perk if you aren't into incest. I don't think it's good design to force the player to pick things that have absolutely no use. Things don't have to be perfectly balanced, but they should have some use.
And from an RP perspective some players may view perk picks as things the character is actually interested in. Rather than abstract options