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CK3 Dev Diary #5 - Schemes, Secrets and Hooks

Greetings, dear would-be kings and queens!

I’m Voffvoffhunden (also known as Petter on the discord or even in private life), one of the game’s content designers. Most people probably haven’t seen me around a lot, since I’ve been working on CK3 in secret since the release of HoI4. It’s been a long journey, but it’s been fun to see the game develop and grow over time, and it’s even more fun now that we get to talk about it to all of you! Today, said talking will be about a handful of new features that together cover some of the most important parts of the Crusader Kings experience. So where better to start than with murder?

We’ve all been there. A united Scandinavia is within your grasp, if only it hadn’t been for your meddling siblings! In CK2, these kinds of problems were handled with the gentle application of the “Murder Plot”, as it was popularly called. That system has been expanded and replaced with our brand new Scheme system!

For Crusader Kings 3, we wanted a system that was slightly easier to predict while keeping it unreliable in its outcome, so that murder remains an… option, rather than a safe bet. We also wanted to reduce the number of agents that you need, to make it more valuable to focus on a few candidates close to the victim, rather than having to send messengers with bags of gold to every single courtier and vassal in the land.

All this is achieved through our new Scheme system, where you can use target a character with a Scheme in accordance with your plans, recruit Agents, build up your Scheme Success Chance, and finally achieve your goal. I’ll try to illustrate how it all works by referring to that most iconic of all Schemes: Murder.

ongoing murder scheme USABLE.PNG



By now, the progress bar might have caught your eye. Each month, a Scheme has a chance of progressing one step, with the odds determined by the Owner’s Scheme Power, and the Target’s Scheme Resistance. These two values are based on the relevant Skill (Intrigue in the case of Murder) but are also affected by Spymasters (in the case of Intrigue-type schemes), various modifiers, and of course - the Owner’s Agents. The closer a Murder Scheme’s Agents are to the Target (and the better their Intrigue), the more Scheme Power they add.

Once the Scheme has progressed 10 steps, it tries to execute. The chance of a successful outcome is determined by the Scheme’s Success Chance (which has a slightly different set of modifiers to Scheme Power), while its Secrecy is used to check whether you are discovered or not when you try to execute.

If you’ve gathered capable agents and you’re lucky enough to not get caught, that inheritance will be as good as yours!

As the Scheme's Owner, you are protected from discovery until you actually attempt to execute your scheme. This protection does not extend to your agents, however! And being discovered as a participant in a murder plot is rarely good for one’s reputation, or for one’s habit of seeing sunlight every day.

It is worth noting that when the existence of a Scheme is discovered in this way, its chance of success drops significantly, as the appointed victim makes every preparation possible to foil your plans.

On the other hand, perhaps you’re just not the murderous type? Thankfully the Scheme system is so flexible that it can be used for all manner of long-term interactions. On the opposite end of the spectrum, Seduction makes a return as a Scheme. Seduce does not use Agents in the way Murder does, and it’s not dangerous in the same way… unless your target happens to be married, that is. Achieving success - determined by things such as your skill at seduction, their sexual preference, and whether you get along whatsoever - can net you a new Lover.
I know where your minds are going at that thought, and yes - it’s a great way of acquiring Agents for your Murder Scheme!

Sway is another returning favourite that’s now a Scheme. Sway also doesn't use Agents but largely relies on your Diplomacy instead. It simply progresses towards its execution and then checks whether you successfully improve their opinion or not. Then it loops around and starts over, building up the target’s opinion of you until you stop it -- or commit some horrible diplomatic faux pas...

To add to the convenience, all characters can run one Hostile Scheme (such as murder) and one Personal Scheme (such as Seduction or Sway) at the same time. Unfortunately, you can only target a given character with a single scheme at a time, so you won’t be able to both murder and seduce the same person, just to see which one pays off sooner. You have to do one after the other.

Now, as I indicated earlier, trying to murder someone is usually illegal. (Fun fact: according to Paradox’s legal department this is also the case in real life.) However, if you’re not discovered when you do it, you’re off the hook, right? Not so! Let me introduce you to something that will change the way you nervously glance over your shoulder forever: Secrets!

hooks and secrets USABLE.PNG



Characters can acquire Secrets when they do something that is frowned upon or outright illegal. You want to keep your own Secrets close to your chest, while it can be of great benefit to uncover the Secrets of others. By sending your Spymaster to… well, spy, it’s possible to find out what is going on with your annoying vassals, your threatening neighbour, or even at your own court!

So what do you do when you discover a Secret? One possible course of action is to expose it for the world to see, of course! This will apply various effects depending on how serious the Secret is. Being the King’s secret lover will cause a scandal, being a Secret Deviant will leave you with the Deviant trait, while being exposed as a secret murderer is exactly the excuse your Liege has been waiting for to throw you in the dungeon. Not to mention those horrible Kinslaying penalties (“Hey, they’re my family, and I choose what to do with them, okay?”).

The other possible course of action ties into our new evolution of CK2’s Favors. This is now a generalised system called “Hooks”, which come in various flavours. Favors is one of these, while another might represent the loyalty that a House member owes to the House Head.

A Hook is used to force characters to do what you want them to, such as accepting marriage offers, changing your Feudal Contract, or forcing them to join your Scheme as an Agent…

forcing prince bishop to accept USABLE.png



There are Weak and Strong Hooks, where weak Hooks are used up once expended, while Strong Hooks only get a cooldown, ready to be used again later. The source of a Hook determines its strength, and the strongest Hooks come from Blackmailing someone over their most horrible secrets…

blackmail over incest USABLE.PNG



You might want to keep hold of a Hook once you have it, though, rather than spending it. Having a Hook on someone can prevent them from taking hostile actions towards you -- particularly useful when dealing with pesky vassals. Be warned, however. While having a strong Blackmail Hook on someone really gives you the upper hand, it will be lost if the Secret you are blackmailing over is exposed.

There are many types of Schemes, Secrets and Hooks in the game, and while it would be entirely possible to list them all, I think it would be way more fun for you to gradually discover them through future dev diaries or once the game is released.

Hopefully, it’s clear by now how everything I have talked about hangs together. Maybe you want to murder someone, so you need some Agents. However, no one wants to join, so you dig for Secrets that can be converted into Blackmail Hooks. Meanwhile, you’re running a Personal Scheme (such as Sway) to increase another potential Agent’s opinion of you, so that you can convince them that -- yes, their Liege really is that bad.

But what if everyone hates you (on account of all the murderin’) and you’re unable to find a single blackmail-worthy speck of dirt on anyone?

Well, in Crusader Kings 3 there might be something you can do about that…

Fabricate Hook teaser USABLE.PNG
 

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There should be some way to ask your liege for justice, murder was quite a big deal during the time period that could lead to serious consequences.

Even unlawful executions could be seen as murders.


I absolutely agree. One thing that was always largely missing in CK2 was the judicial function of a medieval ruler, and I really hope that CK3 will incorporate more of this particular aspect. For example, it would be great if there were certain crimes defined by law and custom (murder, adultery, breach of feudal obligations etc) that should have judicial consequences, with the liege usually holding judgement over his direct vassals. Of course, this should ideally be modelled as a dynamic relationship, depending on the relative strength of the crown. For example, when King Robert II of France wished to put Foulques Nerra on trial for his alleged murder of Count Hugues de Beauvais in 1008, Foulques simply refused to appear in court - and, given the weakness of the French kings at the time, poor King Robert could do absolutely nothing about it. Similarly, powerful vassals in the game might be able to refuse trial, unless subdued by their liege (think Henry the Lion!).

Other interesting aspects would be the benefit of the clergy (which could result in a conflict with the church similar to that between Henry II Plantagenet and Thomas Becket), or the reinterpretation of the corpus iuris civilis as a prerequisite for legal reforms in the late game. Plus, baillis/sheriffs/vogts as characters could play a role in establishing controle over your realm etc.

So, yeah, long story short: There's a lot of interesting things that could be done with a more involved judicial system, especially now that scheming and plotting has been greatly expanded. :)
 
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This is a worryingly specific need :eek:
(There's always the chance of getting a progress-boosting event, though...)
It also makes the intro clip with the baby and the snake rather difficult to accomplish.



Will it be possible to find out that someone else is trying to murder your murder target during your scheme? Like if I'm trying to "improve" the world by ridding it of my rotten brother, and I notice agents which I'm sure work for my other brother are trying to steal my kill. Naturally I shelve my scheme at this point (letting brother #2 finish the job) while immediately scheming to get rid of brother #2, as he is clearing a kinslaying bastard who's coming after me next...yeah, it's self defence.
 
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Seduce does not use Agents in the way Murder does, and it’s not dangerous in the same way… unless your target happens to be married, that is.
It should be for more than just married people. For instance, if a king has one of his young unwed daughters seduced by some bloke, that bloke should be in for a lot of trouble. Seducing a ruler's female relations should definitely be a bad idea (maybe less so for some rulers). Also, will we be able to turn seduce plotting off for ai in gamerules like in ck2 or is it permanently on now? If it is permanently on, how will you handle all the cheating that created in ck2?
 
My only real worry with this system is the fact that you can only have one thing going on at a time. This would seem to limit player action. For instance, to get a murder plot going, you first have to sleep with the guys wife, then sway someone from his court, then finally get the scheme active. This will increase "dead time" where you are just fast forwarding with nothing to do, but waiting for actions to get their result. Especially if there is a 12 month minium for murder plots... Maybe adding the ability to have multiple scheme (based upon intrigue level/traits) could be a way to fix this...
 
I agree that it's a cool concept, but it also causes a number of issues that we haven't found any good solutions to. I think it'll make a lot of sense when you see it in play, but we'll have to see once you no longer have to take my word for it!
What about only agents with a high intrigue having a chance of getting a secret on the mastermind of the plot?, like they're the only ones with the skill to make use of this knowledge, and it would make it a double-edged sword to use high-intrigue agents that may not be entirely trustworthy.
 
No, so far we've limited it to AI only, since it can be such a huge risk that you don't really have any control over...
But if they can't force you to be agents of their plots through hooks, what are the biggest risks of other characters getting hooks on you? In other words, what sort of blackmail can they do on you if they can't force you to participate in their plots?
 
They can see sunlight every day from the safety of the Oubliette.

I was thinking more of Swaying and Murdering...keep your friends close, your enemies closer.
I encourage the people in my dungeon to see sunlight to let them know what they're missing. That's why I face all my dungeon windows towards the sunrise.
 
Will the chance of discovery of secrets depend on the traits and stats of the characters involved in the scheme? In other words, should we be careful about who we ask to join our schemes?
 
Can we use multible hooks to ensure, someone joins your plot. Right now i saw there were propabilty to join, plot, maybe one secret is to small to accept joining a murder plot but if you have another on someone you could ensure he/she accepts.
 
"By default" is a key phrase in the sentence you've quoted ;)
I hope the trait Cynical is involved in this. It can be done in two ways even, the first being: when a character seduces someone they're not attracted to and discard them after getting what they wanted then seducer would gain Cynical. This one would be likely easy to cheese tho, as it could be difficult for the game to decide how cynical the players intent was.

The other option is that only cynical characters can seduce people they're not attacted to. This would work perfectly IMO, downside being it's somewhat restrictive.
Ooooh, this one would be very controversial. Some players like the vagueness, and some players absolutely hate not knowing exact dates of durations...
I second the notion that this could be a Game Rule option, if it's no too hard to implement the feature itself.

Great DD, thanks Petter!
I encourage the people in my dungeon to see sunlight to let them know what they're missing. That's why I face all my dungeon windows towards the sunrise.
From my experience sunset works better. Let them catch the last few glimpses of a dying day before a long, lone, lightless night... Sunrise tends to give them some weird ideas like this whole 'hope' thing.:rolleyes:
 
Can we have our secret agents who join other people plots to discover who is part of them and who have strted them. Agents who falsely act as they are angry with you, but its as act for biting plotters. Thouse agents should be made by plots and be only known to you and them.