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CO Word of the Week #4

In the last Word of the Week, I touched upon the frequency of the expected fixes for Cities: Skylines II. For the last few weeks, we’ve been focusing on performance improvements and bug fixes at a rapid pace. As we’re continuing to work on the improvements we’ll adjust the pace of the updates slightly so we won’t see a new patch every week going forward but will have a bit longer cadence between them. We have made it through the quicker fixes and we’re now digging into the ones that require a bit more work. The next patch is not yet scheduled as it has performance improvements pending that we absolutely want to include in it.

The priorities for the team at Colossal Order are the following:

1. Performance improvements
Specifically, we are working on the level of detail models for the assets. This includes both adding missing LODs and improving the existing ones to improve the GPU performance. It might take more than one patch to address all of them, but we’ll roll out the first fixes as soon as possible. Following the asset and LOD fixes, we’ll work on improvements to CPU performance. This means focusing on the CPU stutters and simulation performance to improve simulation speed and smooth experience while scaling up the size of your cities.​
2. Bug fixing
We continue to go through your bug reports and have logged around 100 reproducible issues that have been moved to the team to look into. There are another 100 reports that we are still investigating that require more information and a bunch of duplicates, some of which add valuable information so we’ll go through all of them. We are also checking suggestions for improvement or new features, but these requests are currently at a lower priority.​
While the forum is the best place to report issues, our community team also keeps an eye on discussions outside of the forum so we can gather relevant information for the development team. Fixing gameplay bugs and issues is a high priority for us, and these can be anything from bigger overhauls of systems that are not functioning as intended to the smallest of annoyances.​
3. Editor/Modding support
The modding Beta group is testing the map editor and we’ll improve it based on their feedback before releasing it. Especially the placement of water on the map is under review since it’s currently too complicated. The UI will also receive a bit more love as it’s really difficult to find the available assets that can be placed on the map. I’ll keep you updated on the progress of the Editor and code modding and their release schedule, but the performance and bugs need to be sorted out first.​


Where we are right now
Talking about sorting, let’s talk about the Mail Service. This is a good example of a bigger overhaul caused by a few critical bugs resulting in the entire system behaving undesirably. We identified that the mail sent to the residents of the city, whether it be a citizen, a company, or a city service, is not delivered as it should. One culprit is the Post Sorting Facility as the mail is sorted in an erratic way, which makes me wonder what they are actually doing there if it’s not to sort the mail. The other issue is the Post Office vans that only seem to be collecting the mail instead of ever delivering it. Let’s see if we can get the light-fingered mail personnel under control! All jokes aside, now that these bugs have been identified and are being fixed we’ll have to test the entire system to see if it requires a rebalance. Therefore fixing the bugs takes time as we need possibly multiple QA rounds to make sure it’s working as it is supposed to.

Another issue we’re investigating on the gameplay side is the pathfinding regarding the Citizens’ ability to reserve housing even with no connection to the city. It kind of makes sense that one makes a rental agreement before moving in, so personally I wasn’t too worried about the fact that a house is assigned to a citizen when it’s being built. However, the problem appears with the companies as the citizen that has a rental agreement may also accept a job even if they have never made it to the city to begin with. So a Citizen stuck at the border of the city with no access to their house or their workplace is basically reserving those until the Citizen is deemed a lost cause and deleted from existence. We’ll look to improve this behaviour in a way that is more understandable and there’s a clear cut between the citizens that have made it to the city and those that have not.

We’re also looking at reports about export and distribution of goods in the city. Like mail, these require a deep dive to determine what is working as it should and what is not. I don’t have any details to share yet as we’re still digging into the different reports, but I wanted to let you know we haven’t missed the concerns you have raised. More on those next time!

Once the PC version is where we want it to be, we will be focusing on the console release and DLC content. We are committed to bringing the marketed DLC content to you, but it will not be landing in the originally promoted schedule. The first Asset Pack, Beach Properties, has been worked on by our artists’ and our outsourcing partner, but we’ll only implement them after the asset fix and performance work are completed to our satisfaction. I apologize for the delay, but we must not rush new content out before the base is ready for it. This also stands for the Content Creator Packs and Radio stations. Stay tuned for more information on these later!

Last Thursday we released the last weekly hotfix and it included a bunch of fixes, all of which can be found in the patch notes, but I want to highlight a few of them. The patch included a fix for the stuck “Garbage Piling Up” notifications, which didn’t clear properly after the previous fixes to the garbage collection. Now citizens will finally recognize that their bins are empty. We also took another step towards solving the issue where texture resolution drops significantly so you should see it pop up less often, though the work is still ongoing as some cases still remain. Lastly, but definitely not least, we resolved an issue that caused saves to load to a black screen when playing offline, bringing up some bad memories for some of our players. Like its predecessor, Cities: Skylines II can be played offline, so thank you for bringing this issue to light.

That’s it for this week, I’ll keep you posted!

Sincerely,
Mariina
 
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I am reading a lot of bad and negative comments here, guys stop please. People get angry cause game is "broken", people would get angry if game would be postponed....
Can you just appreciate what CO is doing working to fix the game!?
It's so annoying how people can be so stubborn. This game is really beautiful cannot be compare with CS1 this last one has 10 years c'mon and if we watch how CS1 was launched OMG it was so "indie game"
I really appreciate CO job, Thank you! @co_martsu
The game came out broken and people are angry about it?
Well, who would have expected. (sarcasm)
Do you think people would be more at the lag than at the technical condition that doesn't allow you to play?
You seem to be forgetting about console players. They delayed the release of the game and are waiting patiently.
Especially after what they've seen in PC gamers. CSII on XSX or PS5 would not be allowed to run, which is why the release was delayed to XX.XX.XXXX.
The developers were and are aware of these problems with the game, and yet they released the game. So they have to take full responsibility for the state of the game.
 
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...Once the PC version is where we want it to be, we will be focusing on the console release and DLC content...
@co_martsu Thanks for the update Mariina, I've taken the liberty of taking this quote out of your WotW as it seems to me to go to the heart of the problems you're having - the game clearly wasn't ready for release. You would have known earlier this year you couldn't get away with it on consoles (certification problems alone would have prohibited a release even if you had decided to go for it and release at the same time as the PC version) but hey, PC gamers right? They'll buy anything.
I apologize for the delay, but we must not rush new content out before the base is ready for it.
If only you'd applied that logic to the game as a whole before you released it in this buggy unfinished state, I wouldn't be rueing the fact I've spent £90 to be an unpaid beta tester for a game that by any metric should have been labelled as "early access".

It's not going to bother you now, you've got my money, but honestly I'm seriously disappointed in you and CO for this botched, rushed release.
 
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Thank you for continuing to prioritise performance issues - I do think though that you should make some of the community suggestions higher priority over DLC - there are many great quality of life improvement suggestions and expected but currently missing features that everyone playing the game can benefit from and it would be a great shame if these get pushed behind more paid content.

thanks

I also agree that integrating community suggestions for quality of life improvements and missing features would greatly benefit everyone who plays the game. It's true that these changes can significantly enhance the overall gaming experience. I wouldn't like to see these suggestions sold as DLC, but that's probably what will happen with most of them, if they are implemented at all.
 
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Can you speak more to those of us who use Nvidia GEForceNow and what will be available to us? it sounds like mods will not be available at all for us? What about DLCs like content creator packs?
Any update on the region pack and GeForce Now? Would it be possible to release the region pack as DLC also for those who are unable to access Paradox mods

The lack of variety for specialised industrial assets also stands out massively, and appears unfinished?

I am currently enjoying the game and look forward to the fixes and improvements

They mentioned something about GFN and mods last week:


So far the problem seems to be having to download all content every session (which btw is not such a big deal from the user standpoint).

At least they are officially looking into it. But unfortunately I doubt there will be further details until the release of Paradox Mods is closer, and probably even post release, as I don't think GFN is their top priority now (I'm guessing the priority is PC-consoles-GFN).
 
Hi everyone. First, I'll just leave a little reminder that being respectful is not optional. You may disagree with another commenter, but please remember to do so respectfully. Thanks! :)

Have we got any further update / timeframe for the console version ?
Unfortunately, we don't have an update, but we will share it as soon as we do have one.

True, but each of those small free updates came at the same time as larger paid DLCs. I'm just observing as a fan of No Man's Sky how after they had a rough launch, they have added so much content without any paid DLCs and it has been a tremendous success because of it. If anyone's unfamiliar with the story or the way that community has been turned around, you should check it out.

-snip-
With Cities: Skylines we bundled updates together as each update meant mods would often need to be updated as well. To minimize the disruption for players who mod the game and to avoid putting our modders through too many updates, we bundled content together in larger patches as much as possible. We'll have to see how things turn out with Cities: Skylines II modding and whether that still makes sense. Our goal is always to strike a good balance between delivering updates for our games and supporting the modding efforts that take place in the community.

@co_martsu Hi Mariina,

keep up the good work, I can't wait to see further gameplay fixes. I've two questions:
1) WoW4 didn't mention the problems with traffic explicitely - I assume we can expect them to be on priority as well?
2) The bug reports and suggestions have a voting mechanism. Are the votes included in your decisions about what has to be fixed?

Regards
1) We're investigating several reports related to traffic, though I'm afraid we don't have an update on the situation, hence why it wasn't included in this WoW.
2) The votes help us get a sense of how many people are affected or how much a particular issue affects players, which we take into account when determining priority.
 
lol, This must be lowest priority of all the listed issues probably, a few lights or 3 millimeter of muddy texture in the background
For me its the only problem. Game runs good on my pc and the smaller bugs will be patched anyways. Complete buildings vanishing while zooming or have NO lights in cities at night with even the smallest zooms is terrible. But stopped anyway with the game and play Anno now hoping that someday it will be fixed. . They said they work further on the LOD to increase performance so it will decrease even more.
 
1-Animations for city services are they coming???
I do also have suggestions that PD & FD should have a few animations for example PD when responding to robbery should walk out with said criminal in handcuffs to patrol car
You know what's funny? Right now I've noticed that captured "robbers" aren't even transported by the police. I've actually clicked on the robber walking down the street after the police have responded and it says he is "walking to jail". I think the same might be true with ambulances not ever transporting people to the hospital.

I know everyone plays CS differently, but seeing a living, breathing city of my own creation is what inspires me and I was hoping would be taken to another level in this game. I hope it's something that they plan to get to in what seems to be a rushed/unfinished game.

One other suggestion to add to yours... Please let there be some service vehicles actually visibly parked in all that parking at the service buildings. Like police cars at the police station, ambulances at the hospital, buses at the bus depot.
 
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One other suggestion to add to yours... Please let there be some service vehicles actually visibly parked in all that parking at the service buildings. Like police cars at the police station, ambulances at the hospital, buses at the bus depot.
One of the things I really like about <the soviet game that I will not name> is that vehicles don't come from nowhere. The employee has to go to the police station, get in one of the police vehicles parked in the lot, and use it for patrol.

Some of the systems in CS2 do seem to be partially inspired by the systems in that game. I wish patrol vehicles was one of them. ;)
 
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In the last Word of the Week, I touched upon the frequency of the expected fixes for Cities: Skylines II. For the last few weeks, we’ve been focusing on performance improvements and bug fixes at a rapid pace. As we’re continuing to work on the improvements we’ll adjust the pace of the updates slightly so we won’t see a new patch every week going forward but will have a bit longer cadence between them. We have made it through the quicker fixes and we’re now digging into the ones that require a bit more work. The next patch is not yet scheduled as it has performance improvements pending that we absolutely want to include in it.

The priorities for the team at Colossal Order are the following:

1. Performance improvements
Specifically, we are working on the level of detail models for the assets. This includes both adding missing LODs and improving the existing ones to improve the GPU performance. It might take more than one patch to address all of them, but we’ll roll out the first fixes as soon as possible. Following the asset and LOD fixes, we’ll work on improvements to CPU performance. This means focusing on the CPU stutters and simulation performance to improve simulation speed and smooth experience while scaling up the size of your cities.​
2. Bug fixing
We continue to go through your bug reports and have logged around 100 reproducible issues that have been moved to the team to look into. There are another 100 reports that we are still investigating that require more information and a bunch of duplicates, some of which add valuable information so we’ll go through all of them. We are also checking suggestions for improvement or new features, but these requests are currently at a lower priority.​
While the forum is the best place to report issues, our community team also keeps an eye on discussions outside of the forum so we can gather relevant information for the development team. Fixing gameplay bugs and issues is a high priority for us, and these can be anything from bigger overhauls of systems that are not functioning as intended to the smallest of annoyances.​
3. Editor/Modding support
The modding Beta group is testing the map editor and we’ll improve it based on their feedback before releasing it. Especially the placement of water on the map is under review since it’s currently too complicated. The UI will also receive a bit more love as it’s really difficult to find the available assets that can be placed on the map. I’ll keep you updated on the progress of the Editor and code modding and their release schedule, but the performance and bugs need to be sorted out first.​


Where we are right now
Talking about sorting, let’s talk about the Mail Service. This is a good example of a bigger overhaul caused by a few critical bugs resulting in the entire system behaving undesirably. We identified that the mail sent to the residents of the city, whether it be a citizen, a company, or a city service, is not delivered as it should. One culprit is the Post Sorting Facility as the mail is sorted in an erratic way, which makes me wonder what they are actually doing there if it’s not to sort the mail. The other issue is the Post Office vans that only seem to be collecting the mail instead of ever delivering it. Let’s see if we can get the light-fingered mail personnel under control! All jokes aside, now that these bugs have been identified and are being fixed we’ll have to test the entire system to see if it requires a rebalance. Therefore fixing the bugs takes time as we need possibly multiple QA rounds to make sure it’s working as it is supposed to.

Another issue we’re investigating on the gameplay side is the pathfinding regarding the Citizens’ ability to reserve housing even with no connection to the city. It kind of makes sense that one makes a rental agreement before moving in, so personally I wasn’t too worried about the fact that a house is assigned to a citizen when it’s being built. However, the problem appears with the companies as the citizen that has a rental agreement may also accept a job even if they have never made it to the city to begin with. So a Citizen stuck at the border of the city with no access to their house or their workplace is basically reserving those until the Citizen is deemed a lost cause and deleted from existence. We’ll look to improve this behaviour in a way that is more understandable and there’s a clear cut between the citizens that have made it to the city and those that have not.

We’re also looking at reports about export and distribution of goods in the city. Like mail, these require a deep dive to determine what is working as it should and what is not. I don’t have any details to share yet as we’re still digging into the different reports, but I wanted to let you know we haven’t missed the concerns you have raised. More on those next time!

Once the PC version is where we want it to be, we will be focusing on the console release and DLC content. We are committed to bringing the marketed DLC content to you, but it will not be landing in the originally promoted schedule. The first Asset Pack, Beach Properties, has been worked on by our artists’ and our outsourcing partner, but we’ll only implement them after the asset fix and performance work are completed to our satisfaction. I apologize for the delay, but we must not rush new content out before the base is ready for it. This also stands for the Content Creator Packs and Radio stations. Stay tuned for more information on these later!

Last Thursday we released the last weekly hotfix and it included a bunch of fixes, all of which can be found in the patch notes, but I want to highlight a few of them. The patch included a fix for the stuck “Garbage Piling Up” notifications, which didn’t clear properly after the previous fixes to the garbage collection. Now citizens will finally recognize that their bins are empty. We also took another step towards solving the issue where texture resolution drops significantly so you should see it pop up less often, though the work is still ongoing as some cases still remain. Lastly, but definitely not least, we resolved an issue that caused saves to load to a black screen when playing offline, bringing up some bad memories for some of our players. Like its predecessor, Cities: Skylines II can be played offline, so thank you for bringing this issue to light.

That’s it for this week, I’ll keep you posted!

Sincerely,
Mariina
Thank you Mariina!
Really appreciate reading this weekly posting of the progress and what the team prioritises.
Right now I feel the game's not fun without traffic management, movit, bugs and real consequences for mistreating the city.
But I hope you guys get there
 
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Are you high? There are hundreds of bugs in the system. Also there are at least a dozrn of them which completely breaks the software and another dozen that renders it basically unusable. These are not typo kind of bugs but complete issues. They have fixed like 50 very small bugs in the month since release.
For all you know they are typo kind of bugs, lots of bugs are that way. Of course there are hundreds of bugs, this is a software product. I can think of any large piece of software that shipped without hundreds of bugs.

Also for being unusable, it sure seems pretty usable. Seeing as I’ve played it for like 150 hours at this point and it has worked alright.


They need to fix several software breaking issues, rewrite entire sections of code. It is going to take them months if not a complete year until the software is in an actually working phase.
Objection: speculation. You don’t know what the fixes or changes entail. I don’t know either.


If a railway security software company released something like this, the whole bunch of them would be in jail answering for hundreds of deaths.
I have got real bad news for you about the state of infrastructure and industrial software. It’s often complete buggy garbage. I work in aviation, every part of that sector is plagued by horrible software.

I’m not saying it’s right, or that it’s good. Clearly it isn’t. But you don’t seem to have good scope on how this stuff works. Where there is code, there are bugs.

This thing was not even close being ready or releasable. And then we haven't mentioned the performance...
I don’t really disagree that the release was too early. But that ship has sailed. Now it’s released. You can’t wind back the clock and un-release it. So what do you want to happen now?

People are complaining incessantly that it was released early, and not ready. Okay, we hear that, but that’s not really constructive or interesting. That doesn’t help us get from now to a state where you’re happy.

I want a great city building game. Do you want a great city building game? Or do you just want a reason to complain? If the former, great, let’s be constructive about it. If the latter, I’m kinda just over it.
 
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I don’t really disagree that the release was too early. But that ship has sailed. Now it’s released. You can’t wind back the clock and un-release it. So what do you want to happen now?
Accurately labeling the game as early access until it's done and offering refunds to people beyond the two weeks that they let us think that mod support was fairly imminent would be a start.
 
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You know what's funny? Right now I've noticed that captured "robbers" aren't even transported by the police. I've actually clicked on the robber walking down the street after the police have responded and it says he is "walking to jail". I think the same might be true with ambulances not ever transporting people to the hospital.

I know everyone plays CS differently, but seeing a living, breathing city of my own creation is what inspires me and I was hoping would be taken to another level in this game. I hope it's something that they plan to get to in what seems to be a rushed/unfinished game.

One other suggestion to add to yours... Please let there be some service vehicles actually visibly parked in all that parking at the service buildings. Like police cars at the police station, ambulances at the hospital, buses at the bus depot.
Definitely would love to see prop vehicles parked at their respective service building or even let us eventually get access to prop service vehicles ourselves to place anywhere around our cities
 
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Are you high? There are hundreds of bugs in the system. Also there are at least a dozrn of them which completely breaks the software and another dozen that renders it basically unusable. These are not typo kind of bugs but complete issues. They have fixed like 50 very small bugs in the month since release.
They need to fix several software breaking issues, rewrite entire sections of code. It is going to take them months if not a complete year until the software is in an actually working phase. If a railway security software company released something like this, the whole bunch of them would be in jail answering for hundreds of deaths.
This thing was not even close being ready or releasable. And then we haven't mentioned the performance...
Completely agree with this. I make software for a living. My software accompanies products often costing over $1 million. My latest software, issued in July has had not one single patch to it. Sometimes I get 5 to 10 bugs per year, and sometimes ship minor updates quarterly, but never 50 bugs per week.
 
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Completely agree with this. I make software for a living. My software accompanies products often costing over $1 million. My latest software, issued in July has had not one single patch to it. Sometimes I get 5 to 10 bugs per year, and sometimes ship minor updates quarterly, but never 50 bugs per week.
Is your software brand new? Does your software have huge platform diversity? Does your software have millions of users? Does your software have regular feature updates? Is the process for reporting hugely difficult?

Do you work on shitty industrial software that nobody reports bugs for because the software being shitty is just part of life?

If you have mature software, that runs on a limited number of controllers, and never receives new features, then I’m not surprised there’s not many new bugs. You’re just slowly whittling down at the existing undiscovered bugs.

If you have complex software, that is widely used, that gets feature updates regularly, and you have 5-10 bugs per year. Then you have other major problems in your organization.

Where there is code, there are bugs. Full stop.
 
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I feel like I paid for being a beta tester to find out bugs which are evident after few hours of playing the game. This is not what was advertised in the dev videos before release. At least not for me. I feel like a fool for trusting them.
 
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I don’t really disagree that the release was too early. But that ship has sailed. Now it’s released.
Quick thought experiment for you - if you were CO, what would you do if you were Mariina right now?
You can’t wind back the clock and un-release it.
You sort of can - you can refund the two or three gamers who pre-ordered the game and aren't happy with the reality of the released game against the pre-release marketing, leaving the 99.999% of gamers who are happily playing the game to continue enjoying it as is their right while I and the other two unsatisfied consumers can go back to CS1.
 
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I feel like I paid for being a beta tester to find out bugs which are evident after few hours of playing the game. This is not what was advertised in the dev videos before release. At least not for me. I feel like a fool for trusting them.
Indeed, that beta testing is a thing. I'd have been grateful if they had a beta program prior to release (and asked me if I want to participate ;) ) I bought the ultimate edition, so I paid much for being a beta tester. On the other side, I have to say that I enjoy reading the bug reports and seeing how other players are doing things. This way I'm learning much more about the game mechanics and how to do things (or how to not doing them :D ) and also I see other cities and how they're planned. I think this wouldn't be the case without the bugs, so at least for me there's a positive side. Yeah, it would be more joy if there weren't any bugs on release, but... Anyway, I trust them that they'll get the things to work like they should.