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Hello everyone! So finally we address the Elephant in the room, specifically the War Elephant in the upcoming Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India expansion.

When making an expansion based on India we simply couldn't ignore the elephantry that they fielded. These giants will help your Indian rulers to conquer and stampede over any opposition you face, being the heaviest cavalry you can field in Crusader Kings 2. These beasts of war will be mostly available from retinues but there will also be cultural buildings that will produce them for you. They will only exist in very limited numbers compared to other troop types but will have a devastating effect on the battlefield during the melee phase. The Indian general that makes sure to use his unique set of tactics available for these units will without a doubt be victorious.

We also fixed so that the Arabic cultures can field their own camel warriors to face the heathens with.

View attachment ck2_2.png
Showing off their mighty War Elephant Retinues

The old troop type system was very limiting, not allowing for a lot of creativity, and we had nowhere to place the new war elephants in the user interface, it was already over-crowded with the other troop types. So what we did was remake the Horse Archer with a fully script-able troop type known as Special Troops. These now represent Horse Archers, Camel Warriors and the mighty War Elephants. It will be even possible to field Camel Warriors and War Elephants in the same army in your grand pan Arabic-Indian Empire if you so desire. The most important thing is that now modders can utilize this to make their mods even more diverse and interesting, allowing them to add troop types ranging from Wizards to gunpowder troops.

View attachment ck2_3.png
The breakdown of special troops, everything is quite similar to
before except for the numbering of the horse archers.


What is the actual difference for the modders from the previous system then? Well Korbah made an excellent diagram he posted on the beta forum which I am going to borrow from him.

View attachment hkjhkjh.jpg

Previously the troop types were hard-coded in place which gave very little option with what you could actually do with them. Each regiment always had six entries: Light Infantry, Heavy Infantry, Archers, Pikemen, Light Cavalry, Heavy Cavalry and Horse Archers. This meant an army would always consist of a composition of these troop types. The new system removes the Horse Archers and replaces it with the special troop type, meaning it can be anything and every regiment can have a different composition of troop types and still function as a unified army. The only limit on this is that a regiment can only have one special troop type, so one holding can not produce several different special troop types and mercenaries and retinues can only have one special troop type assigned to them.


With the India expansion the world grows immensely giving us a good opportunity to add some common tactical problems that commanders of the time faced. First we gave the Indian subcontinent the jungle terrain type which will harshly increase your attrition and defense bonuses. But the other problem is supplies, it won't be a simple task to just walk across all of Europe with every single soldier you started with alive. You will now have to combat starvation as you march far away from your home. This means that Norse Vikings armies will have starved to death before even reaching India.

How it works is that while you are nearby your realm or your top-liege's realm your soldiers will fill up on supplies to keep themselves fed. These supplies will always last for 31 days. When they step too far away into neutral territory they will start to starve for supplies and have a ticking attrition that goes up slowly for each day. A good martial leader can of course counter-act it to a certain point. When you do finally reach the enemy territory, the troops will start foraging from their surrounding area to keep themselves supplied. The foraging builds on the pillaging from the loot bar except it goes a lot slower. When the soldiers can't take more from the loot bar they will start to starve again in 31 days. This will balance the rulers of Europe to invade their neighbors instead of happily jump over the Egypt and start carving their piece of India. Instead they will have to put a bit effort into it if they want to actually reach India.

So yes we will see a Norse India eventually, but it will be quite an achievement.


There has been some big issues with what people have dubbed "North Korea Mode", making the game way too easy to play and removing the entire feudal point of the game. So we have made playing this way a lot less rewarding by reducing the amount of levies and income they actually get from doing this. It is of course still completely possible to play like this if you still want to, but you will be a bankrupt France with only 400 troops while the strong HRE will be raising a lot more troops than that. Small counts and dukes who go over their demense limit just a little bit will be a bit penalized but not to the same degree.

Bonus: Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India Interview with Project Lead Henrik Fahraeus
http://news.softpedia.com/news/Excl...ith-Project-Lead-Henrik-Fahraeus-429067.shtml
 
Seeing the M1, Gryphons and Unicorns examples as special units makes me afraid you are not taking flaming pigs serious enough. If India gets elephants everyone else gets flaming pigs which instantly turns elephants on their own (Elephants were useless in Europe because they can be defeated by pigs).
 
Because the internet is full of meddlers who whine about things that don't actually effect them. To be fair I've no interest in NK mode, I've never done it. I don't think people should be penalized for doing it though, especially as cultures that did not have a feudal system anyways. In the poll that was held here recently only something like 7% of the community actually cared and their reasoning was an apparent lack of self-control.

Well NK mode isn't a pure exploit in my opinion. It's more like a balance issue. Like if you accumulated 1000 aggressive expansion and overextension in EU4 and nothing bad happened.

Self-control is one thing, but when I start as a small duke and conquer new territory I want to have a good reason to hand it out to vassals, not feel like I'm purposely crippling my realm. A weaker realm can be fun and challenging to play, but it is NK mode that should weaken your realm, not the other way around.
 
Hopefully, the converter needs a lot of more love in other areas though.

A thing that struck me recently is the lack of releasable cores. I have an exported save I'm really hesitant to continue because it features a huge united HRE (about the size of three empires probably) which contains nothing but pure HRE cores (besides those of a couple bordering nations). That's a bit problematic and I'll maybe end up modding in releasable nations manually :/

Do you think something can be done to improve this? Like add cores based on de jure kingdoms, vassals, etc. ?
 
Seeing the M1, Gryphons and Unicorns examples as special units makes me afraid you are not taking flaming pigs serious enough. If India gets elephants everyone else gets flaming pigs which instantly turns elephants on their own (Elephants were useless in Europe because they can be defeated by pigs).

I want war goats and llamas.
 
I like the new Dev Diary, though I must say that I really hope the curb on North Korea mode isn't rediculous hard cap where going a few over the limit means you get bombarded with bad stuff like the old days. Being hated by your vassels is punishment enough on that, also main reason to use NK mode is because Feudalism was crippled levy wise. Anyway all the crying about it reminds me of the "Nerf Wars" of the early days, I don't find it all that bad really and if someone doesn't want to follow house rules in multiplayer then stop playing with them. I mean really who plays multiplayer that often and with total strangers? Most Paradox games focus on single player anyway.
 
There has been some big issues with what people have dubbed "North Korea Mode", making the game way too easy to play and removing the entire feudal point of the game. So we have made playing this way a lot less rewarding by reducing the amount of levies and income they actually get from doing this. It is of course still completely possible to play like this if you still want to, but you will be a bankrupt France with only 400 troops while the strong HRE will be raising a lot more troops than that. Small counts and dukes who go over their demense limit just a little bit will be a bit penalized but not to the same degree.

Case study: if I join a crusade, win and are rewarded with a hundred personally held holdings at once, then immediately pause and give them away, will I be punished for being so far above the limit for a day?
 
How it works is that while you are nearby your realm or your top-liege's realm your soldiers will fill up on supplies to keep themselves fed. These supplies will always last for 31 days. When they step too far away into neutral territory they will start to starve for supplies and have a ticking attrition that goes up slowly for each day. A good martial leader can of course counter-act it to a certain point. When you do finally reach the enemy territory, the troops will start foraging from their surrounding area to keep themselves supplied. The foraging builds on the pillaging from the loot bar except it goes a lot slower. When the soldiers can't take more from the loot bar they will start to starve again in 31 days. This will balance the rulers of Europe to invade their neighbors instead of happily jump over the Egypt and start carving their piece of India. Instead they will have to put a bit effort into it if they want to actually reach India.

Thanks SO MUCH for this--we desperately needed a supply system in ck2. Looking forward to the patch and dlc!:happy:
 
Case study: if I join a crusade, win and are rewarded with a hundred personally held holdings at once, then immediately pause and give them away, will I be punished for being so far above the limit for a day?

You may be until you are done distributing the titles, but as that can be done on one particular day if you pause I think that you should be good ;)
 
Look at the crown. This IS the empire tier frame.

Oh oops. You're right. In that case, I'm a little disappointed. The empire frames for Aztecs, Tengri, and Norse that have been introduced in the latest DLCs look significantly cooler. This frame is rather underwhelming, though it'd be cool as a kingdom one.

Minor issue but still one that can't ever be modded so I suppose of say something in case anybody noticed. :p
 
So if some european count manage to switch its culture to an idian one, he will magically be able to field elephants in his army ?!

It seems overpowered because this count can then roflstomp his neighbours with a unit that should only be unable to survive in the jungle, and not in some snowy european environment.

does anyone agree?
 
You can already do that with Haesteinn. Swear fealty to the Turks, change culture, and all of a sudden, Vikings magically field Horse Archers.
 
These beasts of war will be mostly available from retinues but there will also be cultural buildings that will produce them for you.

This could be a good moment to address the proportion between the number of troops generated by a fully upgraded building and a single retinue, e.g. how a single knight retinue unit will contain more knights than a fully decked out barony (max stables, max %% buildings) can spawn, which takes some fun away from building upgrades.

We also fixed so that the Arabic cultures can field their own camel warriors

Kewl, there's camels now. Is there going to be any fun interaction between them and horse cav?

It will be even possible to field Camel Warriors and War Elephants in the same army in your grand pan Arabic-Indian Empire if you so desire.

But they won't just add up straightforwardly like 2 elephants + 3 camels = 5 units? Even this:

The new system removes the Horse Archers and replaces it with the special troop type, meaning it can be anything and every regiment can have a different composition of troop types and still function as a unified army. The only limit on this is that a regiment can only have one special troop type, so one holding can not produce several different special troop types and mercenaries and retinues can only have one special troop type assigned to them.

... isn't really full clear, as in what happens when there are multiple types of (regiments with) special units in an army? How will the number be calculated? It doesn't make sense to add HA and elephants together in a 1:1 proportion, but there's probably not enough room in the interface to accommodate all the different special unit types participating in the battle on the same side.

Also, are you planning on adding some troop types for western cultures, mercs and so on? (Crossbowmen, mounted crossbowmen, heavy-armoured missible troops... I can think of some.)

You will now have to combat starvation as you march far away from your home. This means that Norse Vikings armies will have starved to death before even reaching India.

What about buying food or running some on ships alongside a marching army or whatever else was used historically?

Plus, I think it's probably time to look at the problem of crossing borders freely. For example the Zirids march all the way round through Gibraltar, Barcelona, Provence, Genoa, even Rome itself, to get to Sicily. The Fatimids are not incapable of marching overland from Egypt through Palestine, Syria, Armenia and Constantinople to the same destination. Food problems would be a good start, still.

How it works is that while you are nearby your realm or your top-liege's realm your soldiers will fill up on supplies to keep themselves fed.

Does the top liege really matter so much when some two counts on the opposite ends of the HRE or BYZ are duking it out?

And it should cost some money... You either pay for it take it away by force and risk the wrath of the owner of the land (or his liege)... but the peasants belonging to some count along the way won't line up on the kingsroad with free lunch for your guys. ;)
 
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Case study: if I join a crusade, win and are rewarded with a hundred personally held holdings at once, then immediately pause and give them away, will I be punished for being so far above the limit for a day?
Probably not, it usually takes a day or two for penalties from demesne limit to kick in and realistically, you will pause the game anyways to hand out titles of that amount.
 
Does this mean we'll see Moose Cavalry as the special retinue for the Swedes?

I hear Lappland is getting reindeers XD
 
Probably not, it usually takes a day or two for penalties from demesne limit to kick in and realistically, you will pause the game anyways to hand out titles of that amount.

My only thought is multiplayer though, when it would seem inappropiate to pause.

That said, the penalties only seem to effect levies and that shouldn't be too much of a problem at peace.
 
You can already do that with Haesteinn. Swear fealty to the Turks, change culture, and all of a sudden, Vikings magically field Horse Archers.

Yeah. But horses can survive pretty much everywhere, unlike elephants... Not to mention the magical aquisition of elephants taming know-how.

It took centuries to idians to learn how to tame elephants. Teaching men how to throw arrows while on horses, is not comparable.
 
Yeah. But horses can survive pretty much everywhere, unlike elephants... Not to mention the magical aquisition of elephants taming know-how.

It took centuries to idians to learn how to tame elephants. Teaching men how to throw arrows while on horses, is not comparable.

It will be even possible to field Camel Warriors and War Elephants in the same army in your grand pan Arabic-Indian Empire if you so desire.

That quote makes it sound like special units are restricted geographically.