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Dev Diary #131 – CKIII University 101

Opening Remarks​

Good afternoon, and welcome to your first class of the semester! My name is Dr. Areysak, and I’ll be your “CKIII University 101” lecturer.

I already see some raised hands. You, in the first row, ask away.

“Why a University Activity? What does it have to do with Wards and Wardens?”

This is a very interesting question. During the early development of Wards and Wardens, talks of hostages’ education led us to a realization: everything that could influence a character’s education trait happens during childhood. Once a character reaches 16 years of age, they are locked out of any further improvement! And if the player character isn’t directly responsible for the education of their heir, a player can find themselves inheriting an already adult heir character with an education trait they have had no way to influence.

The University Visit activity is the solution we have chosen to open up new possibilities to the player to influence their character’s personal growth. Therefore, as a first aim, it fulfills a gameplay need; secondly, it allows us to expand upon one of the Middle Ages’ many successful inventions, Universities; thirdly, we got to add a new activity!

When we talk of Medieval Universities, we are immediately led to think of the famous names of Western Europe, such as Oxford, Cambridge, and Bologna. The name “University”, in fact, comes from Latin and was born to describe specifically the communities (= universitates) of Latin-speaking teachers and students that congregated in these European cities. However, similar institutions existed all over the Old World. Particularly famous are the Indian “universities”, such as Takshashila and Nalanda; the House of Wisdom in Baghdad was one of the most renowned centers of studies of its age, and Madrasas schools were widespread throughout the Islamic world. In this period, it’s also often difficult to separate, as we would do today, between lay and religious centers of studies, since Christian cathedrals, Muslim mosques and, in particular, Buddhist temples were themselves libraries, scriptoria (i.e., where manuscripts were copied), and educational institutions, or had these institutions develop in their immediate vicinity.

The Activity​

Let’s now have a look at the activity itself, though!

The University Visit is a minor activity that adult landed rulers can always initiate, as long as they have the gold! To keep it in line with the pre-existing decision to Go to University, it is quite expensive. To keep the challenge balanced, the final cost is dynamic (like with all activities) and changes with your tier and era.

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(Activity selection interface showing the University Visit)

The activity takes 6 months, and can only be started once every 20 years, and only once per location.

In order to Visit a University, you have to select a valid location in your diplomatic range and travel there.

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(Activity destination selection interface)

You might have noticed, however, that not all valid locations are University seats. As discussed above, large religious centers were often centers of study too, and have been included as potential destinations.

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(The tooltip of a large religious center)

Being a minor activity, the choice of intents and options is limited but flavorful.
There are only two intents available, but they represent two contrasting approaches to your university experience, and will significantly change both your approach to your studies and the results you can achieve. In fact, every activity event will have at least one special option unlocked by each intent!
“Study Hard” is quite self-explanatory: you went there to study, and study hard you will, no matter the stress cost you’ll have to pay! You try to make the most of your time at University, in order to maximize your chances of success at the end of the activity and increase your rewards.
In fact, the results (and rewards) you obtain at the end of your studies are measured by a value called “Studiousness”, which is a “success” chance similar, e.g., to a Pilgrimage’s Piousness. The activity can’t fail per se, but the entity of your rewards will depend on this value.

“Goliardic Lifestyle” is a completely different approach, inspired by the European Goliards, wandering students and clerics famous for their satirical poetry (for instance the Carmina Burana) exalting the art of drinking and carnal pleasures. With this intent, your aim is to gain as much first-hand experience of life, both inside and outside the walls of the University, indulging in so-called “Goliardic Shenanigans”. I’ll leave you the pleasure of discovering exactly what your character can get up to; the general idea of the intent, however, is to gain less success chance (and therefore less rewards at the conclusion of the activity), but more immediate bonuses such as lifestyle traits, lifestyle xp, and skill points.

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(Intents view)

On the other hand, we only have one option with 3 levels, which represent how much money you plan to invest in study materials. The option chosen will influence your success chance and final rewards, including an Illustrious artifact! (cost values are still wip)

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(Options view)

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(Arrival event)

As you can see, your level of Studiousness is easily traceable from the activity view. To make the interactions more impactful, we have limited the number of guests, which are only a handful of students and teachers, which will be among the wisest minds on the map!

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(Activity view and teacher’s character view)

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(Event with Study Hard option)

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(Event with Goliardic Lifestyle options)

Be ready to gain a whole bunch of stress! Nobody said that getting a degree was easy…

I did mention that your teachers will be among the most brilliant minds around, and I’d like to stress it again because if you manage to make a very good impression on them…

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(Conclusion event)

You will be able to invite one of them to move back to your court with you!

But hold on, there is something weird with this teacher… What is that?!

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(Teacher’s character view with education trait tooltip)

Is that… A fifth level of the Education Trait?!

YES!

Concurrently with the University Visit activity, we have added a new level to all education traits. This final level will be super rare, and mostly reserved for University teachers and University graduates who already started with the fourth-tier trait.

Rewards​

As you might have guessed from what has been discussed so far, the main reward for the activity is increasing your education trait one level up. However, there is only a chance to succeed in this endeavor! This chance is higher the lower you current level is (i.e., it’s easier to get from tier 1 to 2 than it is from 2 to 3) and the higher your Studiousness level is.

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(Tooltip of Tier 4 of Studiousness with the rewards)

However, even if you were to fail at improving your education, you are ensured to gain a number of Perk points that increases with your achieved Studiousness, an assortment of xp and skill points depending on your event choices, and even an Illustrious book if you chose the most expensive option during the activity setup (and therefore went splurging on rare manuscripts)!

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(A randomly generated Illustrious book)

Conclusions​

This concludes today’s lecture. I hear some buzzing from the end rows, are there any questions?

“But that’s not how Universities worked! No ruler would go to University like a commoner!!”

You are, of course, correct. We are perfectly aware of it. However, we believe that the combined bonuses offered by new gameplay possibilities (i.e., improving your character’s education and skills) and the historical flavor of showing a slice of the life at Medieval Universities more than warranted the exception!

I hope you are excited to Visit a University soon!

This is the last Dev Diary before the July break, so it seems fitting to just say:

School’s out! Have a nice summer! And see you all back in August!
 
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Wouldn't it make sense to have a university visit last longer, say up to several years? This isn't really that long of a time in the game, and better reflects the amount of time needed to learn. The best approach would probably be to let the player decide how long to stay and offer better rewards for longer stays.
 
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So, have you considered putting the university events behind a game rule (the kind of all / only player / only AI / none rule), so that if someone wants to play with full historical immersion can disable it?

No, we haven't. As with all activities, engagement is optional: if you want "full historical immersion", you don't start the activity!

And there are so many opportunities for player involvement in this. Letters from your relative reporting that they're studying hard... or that they need money to cover their gambling debts... Letters from their rector suggesting that they should stay on for a doctoral degree, or in danger of failing (but that endowing a scholarship might make their teachers more sympathetic), or inviting you to endow a professorship for a suitably eye-watering sum... Returning home with a friend they've made (perhaps someone who shares their scholarly interest, or perhaps someone who shares their bed). The player visiting their protege to see how they're doing (now that's actually a more realistic justification for a Visiting University activity...).


I agree with your basic point. But if the game is ever expanded to the Sinosphere (which I am opposed to but we know is planned), then it might want to engage with the Confucian tradition of the ruler-teacher, or in the usual jargon 'scholar-official': not teaching classes in a university, but engaging in scholarly activity such as writing erudite books as part of the ruler's work.

I think Areysak is saying that player relatives have the same chance as any other NPC to become a university teacher (low). That's disappointing, as it's something that medieval rulers would have been able to influence pretty easily. It should be well within the scope of Wards & Wardens to add a version of Ask to take vows that sends someone to a university province/large religious centre province, even if the devs can't guarantee that they stay there.

I love to see so much involvement with the feature and so many cool ideas! :cool: Unfortunately, as with all activities, the focus is on landed characters, both for technical and flavor-related limitations, so only a landed character can initiate the activity of visiting a University.
That said, I do agree that there is plenty of space to expand the idea of University in other directions too, and I really like the idea of sending relatives and getting "reports" back! It is definitely out of scope for Wards and Wardens now, but it would certainly be cool to expand on the already existing decision to Send Child to University at some point.

You are correct, that is what I meant.
Considering that a University teacher needs to have very high education and skills, and that - as someone else has mentioned - usually you send relatives to take the vows because they are pretty useless and just an inheritance hazard, perhaps you wouldn't want to send these good characters away that often... And currently the way that wanderers work is a bit random, so we can't make them stay or go anywhere in particular, so it would be just a pretext to toss out good characters. So, to cut the story short, it is a good idea, but not something we can implement as we would want to right now.

-What happens if you have a Tier 5 education and you go for another visit to the university and get max studiousness?

-I know others have asked this a lot, but will there be interactions to send family members to improve their education (or alternatively, bringing them with you when you do)?

If you have no room for improvement, you can't go to University anymore.

As said above, it is a very cool idea, but something that was beyond the focus and scope of Wards and Wardens. I can't promise anything, and it doesn't depend on me, but it is something that I would like to see too!

If i understand well, if we take our teacher back to our kingdom, he will give our character a XP bonus in its mastering attribute?

No, if you take the character back with you, you just gain an unlanded unassuming character with great stats that is either your friend or really likes you and that is ready to take up any court position or councillor position at your court!
 
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Wouldn't it make sense to have a university visit last longer, say up to several years? This isn't really that long of a time in the game, and better reflects the amount of time needed to learn. The best approach would probably be to let the player decide how long to stay and offer better rewards for longer stays.
Do you really want to send your ruler away for several years in game?
 
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This looks awesome! But one thing I'd like to see is to be able to fund someone in your court to go to a university (since I imagine nonlanded characters won't be able to afford these prices). For example, your heir is an adult and hasn't gotten as good of an education as you hoped and rather than waiting for your current character to die you can send them to a university.
 
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If characters can improve education traits by studying, should they be able to gain multiple education traits as well? Nothing stop you from studying different subjects after all. :D
And should characters with learning education be better at raising studiousness? That would make sense.
 
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If characters can improve education traits by studying, should they be able to gain multiple education traits as well? Nothing stop you from studying different subjects after all. :D
And should characters with learning education be better at raising studiousness? That would make sense.
I would think that they could improve their stats in other areas, but a different education trait should really be out of the question.
 
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While I love the idea of universities and improving one's level of education even after becoming 16, but I'm worried that this will be another "all gain, no pain" mechanic.

I believe that an interesting and organic way to expand CK3's gameplay would be if non-noble characters held titles. If each university had a Rector, and that Rector's opinion of their liege mattered, then that could be one way CK3 could introduce universities in a way that comes with both costs and benefits.
 
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No, if you take the character back with you, you just gain an unlanded unassuming character with great stats that is either your friend or really likes you and that is ready to take up any court position or councillor position at your court!

Thanks for the precision.
 
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If characters can improve education traits by studying, should they be able to gain multiple education traits as well? Nothing stop you from studying different subjects after all. :D
And should characters with learning education be better at raising studiousness? That would make sense.
I understand where this idea comes from but honestly I think it would just make stat inflation even worse.
 
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For me all that changes looks great, though I've got few questions some of them are more conected to topic, some less.

1. Is there going to be a way to spend your surplus livestyle points for example when you finish all three learning paths and you have nothing to do with aditonal points got from events ( I was wandering about some repeatable finishers in each livestyle tree, or any other usefull stuff).

2. Is "Hold court" decision going to be repleaced with minor activity because the new system is great for that , and also i think that feature in current form is unimportant or inferior.

3. I was also wondering about a little change in cultural fascination and it's function. It would be nice to give it some additional bonus when you exceed 100% (maybe men at arms % bonus or any other little buff ). This may be a nice feature to learning livestyle, the same thing may be implemented to court grandeur (third level of valued courtier bonus when exceeding 100 value?).

4. I've also an idea of new interaction-"Share book ". An interaction to lend or borrow a book/trinket book from a different character to boost a little bit your/someone's skill gain.
 
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I think t5 Education should have a malus in some other stat, instead of a secondary bonus.

As said above, it is a very cool idea, but something that was beyond the focus and scope of Wards and Wardens. I can't promise anything, and it doesn't depend on me, but it is something that I would like to see too!

Wait, but we could send children to University before. Now this Decision is restricted to rulers?
 
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Tell that to Constantine VIII in the Magnaura University or Charlemagne learning how to read in his adulthood. A very good and interesting mechanic, thank you a lot for implementing it. :)
I’m sorry but I gotta disagree here, Constantine VII is not associated with the school of Magnaura, which was founded and supported by the Caesar Bardas, uncle of Emperor Michael III and closed sometime after him.

Constantine VII(purple born)founded a state supported university as he points out there was no dedicated higher education apparatus during his upbringing, but that also seemed to ceased to functioning after him as no sources continue to mention it.

Finally Constantine IX(Monomachos) United existing private schools in the city into a dedicated state backed university system, but again did not seem to last long after him but could have still been in operation in 1066.

Constantinople and the Empire never had a continuous dedicated university system during our time frame. That said the Empire did have private schools that served the same purpose throughout the period that were often funded by Emperors or high ranking officials. Children of the Emperors however certainly weren’t sent to universities or the private school but received private educations at the palace.

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Sources:
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/287593003_In_search_for_'Higher_education'_in_Byzantium

The European Research University: An Historical Historical Parenthesis?
 
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I’m sorry but I gotta disagree here, Constantine VII is not associated with the school of Magnaura, which was founded and supported by the Caesar Bardas, uncle of Emperor Michael III and closed sometime after him.

Constantine VII(purple born)founded a state supported university as he points out there was no dedicated higher education apparatus during his upbringing, but that also seemed to ceased to functioning after him as no sources continue to mention it.

Finally Constantine IX(Monomachos) United existing private schools in the city into a dedicated state backed university system, but again did not seem to last long after him but could have still been in operation in 1066.
Even though the statement that is being replied to is factual incorrect about Constantine VII, there are still examples of rulers supporting education and even continuing education into adulthood, thus the general idea of the statement is correct. Alfred the Great undertook many steps to increase learning in his kingdom and even started to learn Latin.
 
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Even though the statement that is being replied to is factual incorrect about Constantine VII, there are still examples of rulers supporting education and even continuing education into adulthood, thus the general idea of the statement is correct. Alfred the Great undertook many steps to increase learning in his kingdom and even started to learn Latin.
I don’t disagree with that, Infact I pointed out Emperors supporting education in my own comment. However, the comment he replied to said rulers didn’t go to universities and he counter replied with Constantine VII, who of course like all Byzantine emperors never went to a university.
 
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