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Dev Diary #91 - Altering the Alps and Idealizing Italy

Hello there! I hope everyone’s summer is going well, and that you are as excited for this week’s Dev Diary as I am to write it!


As I mentioned last time, this week we are going to take a look at the area around the Alps, as well as take a look at Italy. For our first preview, we will take a look at the western Alps, around the Kingdom of Burgundy, southern Germany and northern Italy.


Keep in mind that not all the changes are finalized, so there might be more updates before everything goes live. All the pictures will be taken from 1066 and with De Jure map modes, so things might look somewhat different in other bookmarks.

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So the first change we will be talking about is the changes to the County of Burgundy. We have cut it up, and made it into its own Duchy (of Franche Comté). The old Duchy of Upper Burgundy has lost its headway into the Swiss heartlands as well, moving the county of Schwyz (old Grisons), Zurichgau (old Schwyz) and Thurgau (old St. Gallen) into the new Duchy of Upper Swabia. In the later starting date, they will be part of the Duchy of Switzerland instead of Upper Swabia, a change that can happen throughout a game as well.

The county of Vaud has been added to the game, to the old Duchy of Upper Burgundy, cut out of certain parts of Geneva and Neuchatel. The final noticeable change on this side of the Alps, is that we have added Aosta to the mountains between Savoy and Italy.

For that part of the Alps, we wanted to make smaller changes, cut up some of the larger provinces and fix a lot of the barony errors and some of the county errors (see Schwyz further up the text). It was important for us to try and fix a lot of these minor issues, as it felt weird seeing some areas so misplaced on the map.

On the other side of the Alps, we have cut up some of the larger provinces. Monferrato has been cut up to make room for Ivrea, Lombardy has been cut up to make room for Milano, Como and Leventina, and Genoa has been cut up to make room for Noli.

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We can start out in Italy, where we left off from the previous picture. Trent has been turned into its own minor Duchy, opening up Brenner Pass between Bozen and Innsbruck. Innsbruck and Tirol has moved a bit westwards, to make room for Pongau as part of the new Duchy of Salzburg. In Bavaria, we have added the county of Regensburg, as it was the capital of the Duchy for quite a while, and we wanted to see that reflected in the game. Passau has also been moved into the Duchy.

To the east, Austria has gotten quite the rework. We have added Traungau, Steyr Freistadt, Krems and Melk as Counties, moved Znojmo into Bohemia and Passau, as previously mentioned, into Bavaria, and Styria has been moved south into its own Duchy. The Duchy of Carinthia has been cut up into Carinthia and Carniola, and the Duchy of Friuli has been added around Aquileia.

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So for our last location, we have central Italy. I figure I will talk about the mountains first, as we have added parts of the Apennines throughout Italy. We’ve felt this has increased the tactical value of Italy somewhat, as the choices you make for movement and county conquering feels a bit more valuable, and we also felt it cut up the county more nicely, particularly considering the new Kingdom we added in central Italy (this will be discussed further down).

We have added Perugia into the Duchy of Spoleto, moving the whole Duchy a bit further north. Rimini has been added to the Duchy of Ancona, turned the two county Duchy into a three county one, to lessen the amount of chokepoints post-mountainfication.For the old county of Aprutium, we have turned it into the Duchy of Abruzzo and moved it into the Kingdom of Sicily. And we have taken parts of the old County of Firenze, and added the county of Arezzo, to make sure Firenze doesn’t stick its fingers into everyone else, as it has had a tendency to do.

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So for what I assume will be the most controversial change to the region, the two new Kingdoms added.

For Carinthia, it felt weird giving even more land to a Kingdom that is meant to reflect the historical Stem-Duchy of Bavaria, when we have the Principality of Carantania, the March of Carinthia and later on the Duchy of Carinthia as inspiration that could take the same role. We have made sure, as this is quite the small Kingdom with a lot of land held by the same person in some bookmarked starts, that the AI won’t create the Kingdom right away, so it should be more of a player goal than an AI goal.

And… For Romagna, we wanted to cut Italy into its more historical pieces, without adding a Kingdom called “the Papal States” that was only for an unplayable Theocracy. This was done for several reason: having the Pope try to seek out central Italy as he did throughout history, having the old East Roman areas be more difficult to hold onto for the Kingdom of Italy in the first bookmarks, and to lessen the massive size of the Kingdom of Italy.

So I hope the Dev Diary didn’t get too wordy this time around, and that people can learn to love the changes made to the region! Next time around, we will have a (probably smaller) Dev Diary about the changes made to Holy Orders in Holy Fury!

PS. For those of you with an interest in the Habsburg jaw and the Archduchy of Austria, we have something special for you as well! (A special decision to create the Archduchy.)

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How does this impact the formation of the Republic of Genoa in earlier start dates? It currently forms on its own pretty quickly after the start but if the duchy is now split into 2 counties that wont happen anymore. Are there steps taken to ensure it does form (having it already existing from the start, or giving both counties to the same lord mayor) or will it likely end up like Pisa usually does being stuck at county level?
 
So, then tell us how to make it better. I'm pretty sure SWMH did split Italy the same way. They just us another name for it.
I am afraid I have no suggestions that would not draw the ire of nationalistic characters. I'll pass. The history is known, it merely has to be applied regardless of feelings and gameplay considerations.
 
I am afraid I have no suggestions that would not draw the ire of nationalistic characters. I'll pass. The history is known, it merely has to be applied regardless of feelings and gameplay considerations.

So than tell us 'history' if even the HISTORICAL Immersion Project things it makes sense to split Italy that way. It makes sense historically. So tell us how the history was so much destroyed? Only the name is questionable, but otherwise it makes sense
 
Venice (1) + Genoa (1) + Pisa (2)
4 counties to make a titular empire.

edit: and some shenanigans to make genoa a 1 county kingdom teocracy.
You could have made a 3 county titular empire with that method:

Get amalfi, form duchy of Amalfi, make primary title.
Take Genoa and Venice.
Form custom "Kingdom of Amalfi", make Genoa and Venice titular.
Form K_venice and k_genoa.
Form custom "Empire of Amalfi"
 
Might be because the historical duchy of Austria consits inly of what today is Vienna, Lower Austria and Upper Austria without Innviertel. Compared to todays Austria it’s ‚squeezy‘ I guess ;)

https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geschichte_Österreichs#/media/Datei:Reich_König_Ottokar_II._Přemysl.jpg

I assume it is impossible to make perfect historical borders for a game spaning from 769 to 1452 (i think).

Well, yeah, but looking at maps and such, passau is to far east. The Inn river is already on the map.

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Nevertheless, Austria's most north-west border is bordering a non-existent river
 
It aches my heart to see the history of my people trampled in the name of gameplay.

But well, it is just a historical game, although historical accuracy appears to be an afterthought...

The defacto borders in the game won’t change much. It’s almost this Kingdom of Romagne doesn’t exists. And if you play for a 100 years it drifts into k_italy.
 
Well, yeah, but looking at maps and such, passau is to far east. The Inn river is already on the map.

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Nevertheless, Austria's most north-west border is bordering a non-existent river

Yeah, I also don’t know what river this should be.
This corner of Passau going to far east might be the Innviertel. It only became part of Austria in 1779.
 
Yeah, I also don’t know what river this should be.
This corner of Passau going to far east might be the Innviertel. It only became part of Austria in 1779.

The Innviertel is south of the Danube, though...
 
I love the new setup for Italy, personally. I think it will make the region a lot more dynamic and interesting.

What I WOULD love to see, however, is a more accurate political landscape in 769. Lombardy up north with a few independent Greek and Lombard states down south.
 
Have you played the game after JD was released? Just look at the map. Persia has been divided into Khorasan, Persia and Daylam as it should have been already before that...
And Mesopotamia aswell... there's Jazira and Iraq instead IIRC

I was referring to Greece only. With Persia and Mesopotamia partitioned like that, and now Italy, Greece goes from being one of the most powerful de jure kingdoms to the strongest. Previously Persia and Mesopotamia had manpower, but that's lost with split. Greece and Italy had less but made up for it with rapid mobilization. Persia, Mesopotamia, and now Italy all have less manpower and stability (more factioning from non de jure vassals in different starts.)

I misremembered the Monks and Mystics changes. Greece did lose two duchies (I thought it swapped with Anatolia) but with Italy, Persia, and Mesopotamia partitioned even more drastically I would suggest doing the same for Greece. I suggest splitting the current Greece in half.
 
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Petition to make the Kingdom of Italy be permanently renamed to Lombardy and change it so that you need to have Lombardy, Romagna, Sicily and Corsica Sardinia to form the Empire of Italy.

Also, we could (suggestion) give the Orthodox their own version of the Latin Empire when they conquer Rome, Ravenna and Milan...maybe call it the Western Roman Empire?
 
Petition to make the Kingdom of Italy be permanently renamed to Lombardy and change it so that you need to have Lombardy, Romagna, Sicily and Corsica Sardinia to form the Empire of Italy.

Also, we could (suggestion) give the Orthodox their own version of the Latin Empire when they conquer Rome, Ravenna and Milan...maybe call it the Western Roman Empire?

The Lombards AND the HRE called the territory in North Italy 'Kingdom of Italy'. No reason to rename it Lombardy.
 
We shall free Switzerland from Imperial opression!

Will it involve an apple, a crossbow and resulting in a piece of music to commemorate it?

That does bring up a question: Will the Old Swiss Confederacy be represented in the game seeing as it's formation is within the timeline of CK2?
 
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The blood thirsty gods of the reformed Bön faith have deemed this Italy as an appropriate place for conquest and later blood cleansings...
 
Granularity looks great and an option for the Erzherzogtum is cool. Nice work! I am a little worried about how often Berthold of Carinthia is going to form that kingdom, though, are you guys considering putting restrictions on it similar to the empires of Francia and Italia to make it harder to form?
 
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Just make Romagna a shade of red similar to the restored Roman Empire!
Make it pink. Then with Kingdom of Italy's white and Kingdom of Sicily's brownish, the peninsula will look like Neapolitan ice cream. Yum!