Dev Diary #91 - Altering the Alps and Idealizing Italy

[Vityviktor]

Any plans to shatter andalusia on 769?
It is now the biggest/strongest kingdom.

In my opinion they should get rid of it entirely, splitting it into new smaller kingdoms, based on Roman provinces, Visigothic bishoprics or even the muslim Taifa kingdoms:

Roman provinces:

Spoiler

Visigothic bishoprics:

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Taifa kingdoms:

Spoiler

[\spoiler]

 

[Vallois]

Makes no sense to do Romans, and little sense to do the Visigothics. Perhaps splitting it into Kingdoms of Toledo and Sevilla would work though, and making Aragon a dejure Kingdom.

Also, speaking of Spain, it would be nice if France stopped holy warring it's way into spain... I don't know why they're always eating the duchy of Valencia and Murcia.

 

[Rockphed]

Makes no sense to do Romans, and little sense to do the Visigothics. Perhaps splitting it into Kingdoms of Toledo and Sevilla would work though, and making Aragon a dejure Kingdom.

Also, speaking of Spain, it would be nice if France stopped holy warring it's way into spain... I don't know why they're always eating the duchy of Valencia and Murcia.

My current play through, as Navarra, has seen exactly 0 French conquest in Hispania. I own about 40% of the penninsula, Barcelona owns 5 provinces, and Castille/Leon/Gallicia own the rest. Castille, Leon, and Gallicia keep getting split by gavelkind and then re-united by whichever brother has allies or a high-martial regent.

 

[Vallois]

My current play through, as Navarra, has seen exactly 0 French conquest in Hispania. I own about 40% of the penninsula, Barcelona owns 5 provinces, and Castille/Leon/Gallicia own the rest. Castille, Leon, and Gallicia keep getting split by gavelkind and then re-united by whichever brother has allies or a high-martial regent.

Lol thats one playthrough. I've got well over 1000 hours on this game and 50% of the time France eats it's way into Iberia along the east coast via Holy Wars.

 

[Almaron]

In my opinion they should get rid of it entirely, splitting it into new smaller kingdoms, based on Roman provinces, Visigothic bishoprics or even the muslim Taifa kingdoms:

I wouldn't mind seeing something like that myself; it'd make Hispania a more interesting area to play, plus it means things are balanced a bit more fairly. In one custom mod I made I broke Andalusia up into three Kingdoms; Andalusia in the south, Toledo in the north (corresponding with the Taifa of Toledo and the Kingdom that succeeded it), and Badajoz in the west (corresponding with the Taifa of Badajoz, but also with the Roman Province of Lusitania, so if Portugal never forms you could have a bit of fun and proclaim the Kingdom of Lusitania instead).

 

[Almaron]

So I think everyone's big issues with Romagna are: 1) It's not historical (there will not be a Kingdom there that is historical though) and 2) It only partially overlaps with the historical Romagna region.

I'm a bit iffy on the name myself - I kind of feel like Roma would be a better choice - but I disagree with the notion that it's not historical. Certainly, it didn't exist as a Kingdom, but there was an entity associated with that region and there are plenty of areas in the CKII world that didn't exist as Duchies or Kingdoms but which are included at that rank for gameplay/balancing purposes. I think it should start out as a fief held by the Pope, though, because that'll encourage them to expand across Italy as they historically did...

As for why...well, it makes more sense if you consider the history of the region. In 402, Ravenna replaced Rome as the capital of the Western Roman Empire, and it remained the capital of the successor states created by Odoacer and the Ostrogoths, and also the administrative capital during the Byzantine reconquest of Italy, with their Italian holdings being reorganised into the Exarchate of Italy/Ravenna, which steadily dwindled over time. When the last Exarch was killed, the Pope claimed the title, and King Pepin of Francia (and his son Charlemagne) confirmed this with the Donation of Pepin, which gave the Papacy authority over the area which later became the Papal States...and over time the Papacy did use this to push their claim to the area during their conflicts with the Holy Roman Emperors. All in all, this encourages the Pope to expand (while also stopping the Holy Roman Emperor from immediately waging a war to claim the area) and also allows a Byzantine player to go for the area and restore the Exarchate of Ravenna by controlling the two most important cities in Roman Italy...

 

[Keizer Harm]

I also generally prefer k_roma, but it may sound weird if you create/usurp it while the Pope is still in Rome. So you would be creating a kingdom named after a city you do not posses.

 

[Almaron]

I also generally prefer k_roma, but it may sound weird if you create/usurp it while the Pope is still in Rome. So you would be creating a kingdom named after a city you do not posses.

I suppose, but that is something that can happen in the game normally with Kingdoms and Duchies that share a title...Castile and Leon, for instance. Or Anatolia, or Jerusalem...

 

[dadadam]

first: great rework of the alps.

but i do have some bad feelings about the ingame balance, especially when you look towards zentral germany.
i do believe germany and france too, need a rework aswell - otherwise scandinavia, the alps and italy will be really OP.
for example if you look at the germany, you can see cologne and mainz are booth on the wrong side of the rhine. (both cities were founded by the romans and so clearly on the western side of the rhine.) Also the area between anhalt-braunschweig-göttingen-nurnberg is far to small.
and comparison with the new bavaria and schwyzarea the duchy of swabia has far to less counties, which now looks ugly big.

so please do a rework of germany and france aswell - otherwise these areas are far to weak because the alpine lords will be able to field far more vassals into battle than the french king or the duke of swabia or francia will not have a chance against a rivaling alpine duke.

also when you keep the sizes of population in mind and compare the alpes with the far more better farming land of france or central germany.
but when you do so, there is a always a danish and also swedish bias in ck2. far to many counties with far to many building spaces in denmark in comparison with neustria or the rhine. (for example compare sjaelland with rome, konstaninopel or paris)

 

[NarcomancerPL]

Archduchy of Austria! ^^ Now my every Habsburg game will be completed

 

[Patriarch of Bub]

Should there be some sort of triggers or decisions tied to the Kingdom of Romagna? Like special Pope interactions or Byzantines events? What do you guys think? Btw, I actually love the kingdom colour It reminds me of delicious mint ice cream

 

[Vityviktor]

Makes no sense to do Romans, and little sense to do the Visigothics. Perhaps splitting it into Kingdoms of Toledo and Sevilla would work though, and making Aragon a dejure Kingdom.

Maybe, my idea was to compare the Taifa kingdoms with the previous territorial divisions, because the bigger ones occupy similar areas, although it's hard to imagine any "De Jure" kingdom based on these, as the borders were constantly changing. This is why I came up with the idea of the Roman/Visigothic provinces, as an older, more stable divisions of this areas. Anyway, I would suggest someting like this:

Spoiler

Red: Badajoz/Lusitania
Green: Seville/Cordoba/Granada/Baetica
Blue: Toledo/Valencia/Carthaginensis

I know this is far from perfect, but something else should be done with the provinces and other De Jure duchies and kingoms too. Some provinces, Granada being the most obvious example, are too big. Also, De Jure Kingdom of Aragon is too big, specially when compared to the rest of the northern Christian kingdoms, like Castile or Navarre. And I also think there shouldn't be any De Jure kingdoms of Castile and Galicia in any of the early start dates, as they were created by the king Ferdinand I of Leon after his death (1065) in order to divide his realm between his sons, so maybe they should be titular kingdoms instead, with a single big De Jure kingdom of Leon. Anyway, in later dates, Castile would exist as a De Jure kingdom, just as Portugal. I wouldn't know what to do with Navarre, though, as it's just too small. During its peak, the kingdom of Pamplona held most of Castile and northern Aragon, but I don't think this should be reflected in game as being part of th De Jure Navarre.

And, please, make some navigable rivers, like the Guadalquivir. I wanna see some Vikings raiding Seville, like they did in 844.

 

[Lord Hoosier]

I hope they find some way to make theocracies playable...

 

[OblivionGaming]

Most of the changes look really nice!
Will be weird having Austria expanded into the traditional slavic lands that always attack bavaria.
Not really sure how i feel about the italian kingdom changes though...

 

[Tavald]

I hope they find some way to make theocracies playable...

That would be another DLC.

 

[TheCreator901]

That would be another DLC.

To be honest, if Paradox keep up with the quality which we have seen in Holy Fury, we would all be willing to pay for said DLC. Not to mention that if theocracies are made playable, most likely republics, holy orders and mercenary companies will too. If that happens, I'm sure we will all have fun taking the Chinese Throne as a Knights Templar. I'd personally prefer a rework of the Islamic world in the following DLC though.

 

[Almaron]

Maybe, my idea was to compare the Taifa kingdoms with the previous territorial divisions, because the bigger ones occupy similar areas, although it's hard to imagine any "De Jure" kingdom based on these, as the borders were constantly changing. This is why I came up with the idea of the Roman/Visigothic provinces, as an older, more stable divisions of this areas. Anyway, I would suggest someting like this:

Spoiler

View attachment 389318
Red: Badajoz/Lusitania
Green: Seville/Cordoba/Granada/Baetica
Blue: Toledo/Valencia/Carthaginensis

I know this is far from perfect, but something else should be done with the provinces and other De Jure duchies and kingoms too. Some provinces, Granada being the most obvious example, are too big. Also, De Jure Kingdom of Aragon is too big, specially when compared to the rest of the northern Christian kingdoms, like Castile or Navarre. And I also think there shouldn't be any De Jure kingdoms of Castile and Galicia in any of the early start dates, as they were created by the king Ferdinand I of Leon after his death (1065) in order to divide his realm between his sons, so maybe they should be titular kingdoms instead, with a single big De Jure kingdom of Leon. Anyway, in later dates, Castile would exist as a De Jure kingdom, just as Portugal. I wouldn't know what to do with Navarre, though, as it's just too small. During its peak, the kingdom of Pamplona held most of Castile and northern Aragon, but I don't think this should be reflected in game as being part of th De Jure Navarre.

And, please, make some navigable rivers, like the Guadalquivir. I wanna see some Vikings raiding Seville, like they did in 844.

With regards to Navarre, in the earliest dates you could potentially try giving the County of Aragon to Navarre, since it did fall into their influence shortly after creation, then the rest of the area (Duchy of Zaragoza and Barcelona) could be a separate Taifa around that time, and later the Kingdom of Aragon could spawn and replace those borders? Although it would require more provinces being added to that area in order to justify it; a OPM Duchy of Aragon coexisting with a Duchy of Zaragoza could cause trouble...

 

[Branwen85]

Pre Order .... Do it!

 

[Masternachos]

To be honest, if Paradox keep up with the quality which we have seen in Holy Fury, we would all be willing to pay for said DLC. Not to mention that if theocracies are made playable, most likely republics, holy orders and mercenary companies will too. If that happens, I'm sure we will all have fun taking the Chinese Throne as a Knights Templar. I'd personally prefer a rework of the Islamic world in the following DLC though.

Throw in Roman Religion and they can call it the "Alright, FINE!" DLC.

 

[Friedrich von Deutschland]

Without dynamic borders...

Dynamic borders for CK3 confirmed!