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Dev Diary #99 - Ground Combat & Army Rework

Hello everyone and welcome to another Stellaris dev diary. Today's dev diary is about some changes coming to ground combat and armies in the 2.0 'Cherryh' update. This will be the last dev diary before we take a break for the holidays, so there will be no diaries in the next week or the week after that. Stellaris dev diaries return on Thursday January 11th, 2018.

Defense Armies and Fortresses
Constructing Defense Armies have always been largely a meaningless exercise in Stellaris. While they are useful for reducing Unrest and occasionally might be able to beat off an unprepared attacker, the fact that a planet is capped on how many armies can be defending it while the attacker is *not* capped on how many armies are attacking, coupled with the general weakness of defense armies, means that defending a planet against a ground invasion is generally an exercise in futility and will at most delay an attacker by a few weeks. However, if we solved this by just making defense armies a lot stronger or capping the number of attacking units, the result would turn every invasion of a backwater colony into a big affair - something that is not particularly desirable when a war can involve several different actors with hundreds of planets between them.

For this reason, we have decided to rework Defense Armies into something that is actually useful, but requires a significant investment of resources to muster more than a token defense. Instead of being directly buildable by the empire, defense armies are created from certain buildings. The capital building will produce defense armies depending on its level, as will some other planetary uniques like Military Academy. If you want a planet to be well defended, however, you will need to construct Fortress building on its tiles. Fortresses require a pop to work them, do not produce any other resources than a small amount of Unity, but provide a significant amount of defense armies to protect the planet. Armies spawned by Fortresses are also impervious to orbital bombardment, and will not be able to be killed without first ruining the building itself. The armies generated by a building have their species and type set by the pop working it, so a Very Strong Battle Thrall will produce several powerful defense armies if placed on a Fortress, and special pops like Droids will produce their own variants like Robotic Defense Armies rather than the normal ones. Fortified worlds will also be able to be fit with an FTL inhibitor (the exact way they get them is not yet determined) that prevents enemy fleets from leaving the system unless the world is captured, which allows for the creation of Fortress Worlds to protect strategically important systems.
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(Building icon is a placeholder)

One more important change related to Defense Armies is a change to Unrest: Armies on planets no longer reduce Unrest directly. Instead, to handle a planet with high Unrest, you will need to construct Fortress-style buildings or take other measures (such as using Edicts) to reduce the planetary Unrest. This means you cannot simply capture a planet and then spam a dozen defense armies to immediately zero out the Unrest. As part of this, we will be balancing certain events and effect to ensure newly captured worlds do not instantly defect back to their former owner.

Finally, as part of all these changes Defense Armies have received a general buff and there are several new technologies that unlock additional tiers of forts and various improvements to Defense Armies' combat ability, meaning that they will grow stronger alongside the invention of new, more powerful assault armies.

Assault Army Management
A major aim of our changes to armies is to reduce the amount of unnecessary micromanagement of armies. For this reason, and to make Assault Armies' role more explicit, we have decided to change Assault Armies to always be based in space. Whenever not directly engaged in an invasion, Assault Armies will now always automatically embark onto their transports, ready to be used to invade another world. We also aim to fix the minor but immersion-breaking bug where transport fleets are giving endlessly increasing sequential names whenever they land and embark again.

Combat Width, Retreating and Collateral Damage
Another change to ground combat is the introduction of new mechanics in the form of Combat Width. Combat Width is determined by the size of the planet, and decides how many armies can be taking and receiving damage at the same time: For example, if 20 assault armies invade a world held by 10 defense armies with a combat width of 10, all 10 defense armies will be immediately engaged in battle while only half the assault armies will be able to deal and receive damage, with additional assault armies joining the fray as the armies in front of them are destroyed. This means that it is no longer possible to take a well defended world without losses by simply throwing a hundred clone armies at it: If you wish to minimize losses (and thus War Exhaustion), you will need to invest in expensive, high-maintenance elite armies.
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(Interface not final)

We've also added the concept of Collateral Damage: As armies fight on the planet, civilians and civilian infrastructure is caught in the fighting. Each time an army deals damage in battle, it will inflict a random amount of Collateral Damage, which increases Planetary Damage similar to Orbital Bombardment (see below) and can lead to the death of Pops and the destruction of buildings and tiles. Some armies will deal more Collateral Damage than others: For example, Xenomorph armies are highly destructive and cost-efficient, but will wreak immense havoc on the planet, potentially leaving it in ruins in the process of capturing it for your empire.

While working on combat mechanics we also took the time to change the way Morale Damage works, making it something that is suffered by both sides (instead of just the loser) and making the effects of it more gradual, so that armies suffer a drop in combat efficiency once they are <50% morale, and then another, sharper drop when they are broken (0% morale). This should make certain armies, such as Psi Armies, highly effective against low-morale opponents like Slave Armies, but less effective against an unfeeling army of Droids. Finally, we've also tweaked the damage-dealing algorithm so that damage is less evenly spread among combatants, making it so that even an outnumbered force can destroy regiments and inflict war exhaustion on the enemy.
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Finally, we have made some changes to retreats. When an attacker retreats from a ground combat, there is now a significant chance that each retreating regiment is destroyed while attempting to return to space, making retreat a risky endeavour and eliminating the tactic of simply send in the same army again and again in wave attacks, instead making retreats something you do in order to preserve at least some of your army in a poorly chosen engagement.

Orbital Bombardment Changes
Finally, again in the interest of reducing the micromanagement needed during war, we've changed the way orbital bombardment works. Fortifications have been entirely cut from planets, so that there is no need to bombard lightly defended worlds before going in with the ground troops. Instead, we have added a requirement that planets cannot be invaded if there is a hostile Starbase in the system, so that transports cannot snipe worlds that are protected by defensive installations present in the same system. Orbital Bombardment, instead of being something you have to manage and wait for in every single planetary engagement, is now something you do to soften up a particularly well defended target, or simply to wreak havoc on the enemy's planet and drive up their War Exhaustion.

As a planet is bombarded, the fleet will deal Planetary Damage, ruining buildings and killing Pops. Bombarding fleets will also do damage to armies present on the planet (unless those armies are protected by a Fortress), and over a long enough time can decimate a defending force, though doing so will likely cause heavy damage to the planet and may delay the attacker long enough that the owner of the planet has time to build up their forces or inflict enough war exhaustion to force a peace. The rate at which the planet is damaged can also be slowed with the construction of buildings such as Planetary Defense Shield, further dragging out the process.

As part of these changes, we've consolidated the Bombardment Stances into the following:
  • Selective: Deals normal damage to armies/buildings and light damage to pops. Cannot kill the last 10 pops.
  • Indiscriminate: Deals heavy damage to armies, buildings and pops. Cannot kill the last 5 pops.
  • Armageddon: Deals massive damage to armies, buildings and pops. Can turn planets into depopulated Tomb Worlds with enough bombardment. Only available to certain empires such as Purifiers.

Attachments
Finally, on the topic of attachments, we have decided to cut them entirely from the game. We discussed a variety of ways to improve the way you assign them, but ultimately decided that we already have so many types of armies and not nearly enough combat mechanics to justify a significant investment of UI time that could go towards something like the Fleet Manager instead. The technologies that previously unlocked attachments will be changed to give other effects, such as direct buffs to certain army types.

That's all for today! As I said, we're now going on hiatus, so I'll see you again on January 11th with a dev diary about... well, that's a secret, actually. You'll just have to wait and see!
 
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Unlesss you're going to have armies that literally die off after one use, there's nothing that doesn't require some form of infrastructure to keep it in fighting trim for the next time it's needed.
It works in Civilization 5, so why not? Honestly though, I'm like 90% sure I could get away with just stacking them in some airtight boxes on some moon and just hoping that at least 70% of them are in fighting form when some filthy aliens decide to pick a fight a couple centuries from now. (If not, I basically dedicate all space not used for habitation, recreation, and research (+ the bare minimum of nature, but that would usually be reserved for parks and science facilities; simulated nature will usually have to do) to industrial megacomplexes and entire planets' worth of minerals loaded into humungous storehouses the size of hollowed out moons. No matter which game we are playing, I always follow the same strategy: science is king and the key to winning any war is production ad absurdum --- there is no way they'll be able to play offensively when I start dumping thousands of murderbots armed with dangerously unstable prototype weaponry onto every single one of their savage planets. A day. Thousands of murderbots a day.)

(Unlike my armies I actually keen my fleets in bleeding edge condition though... wouldn't want anyone to actually get close to our precious arcologies, would we now. They might actually damage something important.)

((In all seriousness, I was referring more to the fact that there is no limit to how many robots you could field at a time, as long as you have the resources and facilities to produce them; unlike fleshy meatbags they don't need decades of "childhood" and "training" and they don't start protesting when no one ever returns from the front lines because you "forgot" to tell your fleet to stop raining brimstone upon anything that moves long enough for your ground forces to actually do anything other than die in a mile-long ditch. The best part is that if you win the war you could probably salvage much of the resources spent, as long as you don't blow up the planet out of sheer spite.))
 
well... at least now i need not terrorize my own pacifist pop by orbital bombing the hey out of my enemy...

yet... a rebuilding of attachments (somewhere future) with a manager ui could better reflect specialization... like usage of portable shields, heavy vehicle support or weapon and armor types... just hope for something along these on a future update.

...and by buildings and tech for army buff... I wonder, will there be an anti-ait barrage buildings (damage to incoming drop pods.. maybe initial damage chance to invading army) ?? ..what of orbital class weapons, to damage ships that are bombarding from orbit ?? ..and will weapon choice from ships ever mean anything for planetary bombardment (nuclear having more planetary damage / precise slow fire weapons having less planetary damage if cautious / strike craft giving a bonus to army..) ???
 
So I guess the removal of attachments means a HoI IV division template will never be added, huh?

Will war exhaustion be worse when using certain troops? For instance, does war exhaustion increase more when using an assault army made out of citizens with families than of clones or robots?
 
The attachments were fun (although tedious at times). I understand that they have budgets (I hate budgets: a hatred spawned from working in retail!), but I do hope that they bring them back at a future date or replace it with something cool (still going to miss imagining my Psionic armies riding alien dragons and Spartans being led by Jedi Knights).
 
Would it be possible to add a mechanic to generals and armies like what you did with admirals and navies? Specifically, caps for how many armies can be sent in per legion, so you would actually need generals in order to command more armies simultaneously, rather than just having one general for your entire attack force.
 
So... to summarize:

- We can build absolutely impervious and unskippable Chokepoints that can hold enemy fleets indefinitely
- We have yet another big Influence Sink which would mean it will yet again be another slow down of the player
- We have yet again less options and ways to play because any other method besides literally building a Cadia-Type Border Fortress is useless.

Okay... I don't know what I expected to be honest.
 
Ehh... I would have done this differently. Micromanaging what pop is on which military building for every planet in your empire and then managing fleets of transport ships separate for your navy on top of it sounds excessively tedious.

I'd set it up much, much simpler. Military buildings produce troops at a specific rate up to an arbitrary number (maybe based on the number of free tiles for example), with no difference between offensive or defensive troops. The races of the troops are spawned commensurate with their share of the population which have the right to serve, becoming adjustable with manufactured armies- slave, robotic, and clone armies. Biological troops require food and energy to maintain. Robotic armies require minerals and energy.

Each hull type has room for a certain number of troops onboard, and can be increased with modules. These troops are filled up by entering the orbit of the planet they're being taken from, and each ship type is limited on the number of drop pods it can launch to the surface at a time, meaning an invading force has to establish a "beach-head" on the planet.

Military buildings on the planet you're attempting to invade provide defenses which can be used against your bombarding ships, meaning that once any planetary shields are down, you have a tactical choice to make:

1) Drop the soldiers and air support (fighters and bombers contribute to invasions) before you've hammered the defenses and deal with an enemy army with better fortifications (and potentially lose some to defensive fire while making the descent).

2) Continue bombarding the planetary defenses and buildings to soften infantry fortifications and numbers, but your ships will take damage and even be blown up.


Taking a homeworld/capital should be a particularly massive endeavour requiring an overwhelming force and commitment of resources.
 
So... to summarize:

- We can build absolutely impervious and unskippable Chokepoints that can hold enemy fleets indefinitely
- We have yet another big Influence Sink which would mean it will yet again be another slow down of the player
- We have yet again less options and ways to play because any other method besides literally building a Cadia-Type Border Fortress is useless.

Okay... I don't know what I expected to be honest.

We haven’t even see a not final numbers build in stream yet so let’s hold off on the doom and gloom
 
How about you just take the Attachments and make em into normal Armies that while being fairly weak themselves provide a buff to all Troops currently engaged :)

Should not be too much work and would give them some further use :)
 
Yes. We realize this is a bit odd, but compare the amount of times you would actually use an assault army to defend a planet compared to the amount of times you have to click 'embark' after invading one...
Understood. That said, I note it also may become frustrating if there's no method of "mothballing" an assault army - particularly if your combat fleets have been wiped out and there is "nowhere to hide" for the transports while you rebuild. The AI being rather adept at hunting down every last ship...
 
I keep seeing people complain that they can't defend plants and that the enemy will just snipe them after an invasion. What is this nonsense.

You taking the planet means any and all defense infrastructure is now yours, meaning that unless you level the entire planet to dust you will have a garrison generated as you do now. Also, how are you letting random armies run around your new territory? It takes all of one corvette hanging above a planet to stop infinite assault armies getting to it. AND if the enemy brings a dedicated assault force with fleet support and ground troops then you losing the planet is the entire point of them being there.

The only reason to have assault armies on a planet was to have armies that don't suck defending obvious target worlds.

Maybe the fortress generates troops, although it seems odd that you’d be able to recruit an effective fighting force from a conscripted population. Even then, though, it would take time to build that army up.

Without defenders, it just doesn’t seem like that much trouble to ninja planets back. A token fleet would be no obstacle, and presumably neither would an already beaten star base. So yes... that’s the point, but then how do we avoid a constant cycle of having to take back the same planet 16 times?

That’s particularly true since this seems intended to make ground combat more relevant. An army-focused race will need to be able to hold critical planets on offense as well as defense... that will be their whole strategy. And with ground-based FTL inhibitors, holding the surface will be a real issue. It will certainly be more plausible to do that with armies than by leaving a huge fleet in orbit indefinitely.
 
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I like these changes. Combined with the hyper-lanes only & choke points you can effectively be "Safe" from having your space sniped from behind you if your mobile forces are off dealing damage. It also gives the defender a meaningful advantage.

Right now wars seem to be an auto loss for the defender with even marginal space power deficit. So kudos for the direction. I think once the tuning gets where it needs to be this will be great! (Even if that isn't right at launch).


Just an idea/suggestion:

What about planet based anti-space defenses. Fortress based anti-space missiles, giant mass drivers or even a geothermal powered laser. These wouldn't have to be distinct buildings/upgrades, even just a passive tech that such as "Anti-Space Rockets: Your fortresses now deal X damage per day to bombarding forces" would serve the purpose. I mean after all if we can get a lander to mars today, I'm sure folks get some explosives into orbit in 2200.

The idea here isn't that a planet will take down fleets but that a well fortified planet can attrition-out a token blockade and force back even sizable force if they can't finish the job in timely fashion.
 
I like these changes. Combined with the hyper-lanes only & choke points you can effectively be "Safe" from having your space sniped from behind you if your mobile forces are off dealing damage. It also gives the defender a meaningful advantage.

Yeah... its so great to not have to deal with actual tactics and just barge in, no worries, my space is safe, just crush them system after system... so great... no real defense necessary, I have my impenetrable Fortress World on my Chokepoint.
 
Yeah... its so great to not have to deal with actual tactics and just barge in, no worries, my space is safe, just crush them system after system... so great... no real defense necessary, I have my impenetrable Fortress World on my Chokepoint.

Perhaps I should have said "Core Space". An empire that constricts themselves to only holding what they can hide behind a single choke or two will like either:
  • A) Only be holding a small amount of space, limiting their production and resource collection abilities.
  • B) Be in such command of the stellar terrain that it is a "Win more" situation anyway.
Assuming hyper-lane generation is done right a large empire will have areas that aren't and can't be practically locked behind fortress worlds. These areas you'll have to work to defend and make a trade-off with your offense but it won't be your most important stuff.

The effect is actually the opposite of what you describe. Imagine you have two empires roughly the same power bracket, but one has say a fleet that is say... 15% stronger.

Right now the stronger empire can doom stack up and do pretty much whatever it wants safe in the knowledge that any engagement that does happen will go their way. They've already won and the weaker empire splitting up only makes things even worse as the doomstack bee-lines for core resources. All this with near-zero opportunity cost.

However, with these fortress systems that can't do happen. Any attempt to sweep the enemy core with only marginal advantage in power risks them countering with their own massed forces and winning handily the additional defenses on their side.

So with a decisive killing (or even crippling blow) off the table with a small advantage what are you to do? Well you can doom stack up and slowly sweep over their outlying resources unchallenged one system at time. However this leaves them with the option to split up their forces and raid your outlying resources all over the place, and likely do so quicker. If you choose to try rush their core fortified systems means they have time to respond and possibly punish you hard.

This creates incentive for even the stronger force to divide up and try to hit poorly defended resources, or for the defender to divide up their forces and respond to such tactics in kind.

Once the fate of a whole empire can't easily be sealed in a single battle with against a marginally more powerful force you have more space for positioning, tactics and give/take to take center stage instead of doom stack chicken.

At least so long as everything is well tuned and implemented at least.
 
So what about small planets. I skip over them now because they are not usually worth the penalties to research and unity. I know that will not be the case with the changes in the update as it will be by system. Its not any better if I have to cover half a 10 or 12 tile planet with just military buildings in the hopes of possible being able to hold it. It seems like a lot of this would be better as a single building with the upgrades making it more efficient and larger army capacity. Instead of multiple buildings making anything but the biggest planets nearly useless.

Planets will still count towards increasing unity and research production; it's Pops that won't be anymore.

I don't think you'll need to throw that many military buildings on planets in most cases, though. For one, with hyperlanes and chokepoints limiting what is even vulnerable many of your inner planets may not even need defenses. For another: the smaller planet also comes with a smaller combat width, limiting how much the attacker can send at you at a time and meaning you can hold better with fewer troops. (Tho obviously if the attacker has infinite waves he's willing to throw at you, you will eventually crumble - but at least it won't be quite as fast.)

I keep seeing people complain that they can't defend plants and that the enemy will just snipe them after an invasion. What is this nonsense.

You taking the planet means any and all defense infrastructure is now yours,

My understanding is that forts have to be ruined before the defenders generated by them can be damaged. Some have interpreted that as applying to orbital bombardment only, but the way it was worded in the original post sounds to me like it applied to troop combat as well.

Which, if true, means at least *that* much of the defense infrastructure is not yours until you invest in rebuilding it. The basic garrison provided by the capital building is more likely to still be there for you, for whatever it's worth.

Also, how are you letting random armies run around your new territory? It takes all of one corvette hanging above a planet to stop infinite assault armies getting to it.

Does anyone actually do that?
I've yet to bother in any of the games I've played, and I've yet to see it done in any of the streams or youtube videos I've watched.

That's by Orbital Bombardment. It actually makes sense technically.

Is it?
The way it's worded suggests to me that they're impervious to Orbital Bombardment *period,* and that even ground troops have to crack the fort before they can damage the troops 'inside' it.

Your interpretation is also plausible, so now I'm not really sure. (FWIW I don't follow twitter at all so if they said something that fits better with how you describe it there then I wouldn't have seen it.)

In this kind of game isn't it really only the numbers that actually matter?

If you're talking 4x in general: not usually. I mean they do always matter to some extent, but they're rarely the only things that actually matter.

If you're talking "Paradox Grand Strategy," I wouldn't know; this is the first and only of their games I've played with.