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Developer Diary | Post-Release

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Greetings all,

Today we’ll be casting an analytical eye over the release of BBA, what players have been up to, and what the immediate plans are going forward.

It wouldn’t be a traditional post-release diary without looking at what the player-base at large have been getting up to since BBA was launched.
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As you’d expect, Italy has been at the forefront of game sessions since BBA released. We were not expecting quite this level of interest however! 45% of 15+ hour accumulated game sessions were played on the Italian tree. By comparison, at the same period after launch, the Soviet Union accounted for 39% of similar length game sessions. Germany (purple) continues to be a popular choice.

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Ethiopia has shot into the first place in terms of minor nations. As expected, Ethiopian game sessions tend to last a shorter time; a combination of losing, having reached player-set goals earlier, and a lot of restarts to maximize efficiency.

We’re seeing fewer players rolling back to previous versions in order to play TC mods than we usually expect during a post-release period.

Everyone’s favorite targets to nuke remain broadly unchanged from previous releases (major capitals). The one new target country in the list is… Mexico, for some reason. Turkey’s nuclear industry has seen an upswing, being responsible for 4% of nuclear weapons created and launched.

2% of games are using the newly released Japanese localization!

There’s been a noticeable increase in players using normal (64%) rather than easy (10%) or very easy (25% ) difficulty since BBA released. 0.74% of games are played on hard difficulty, and 1.10% on very hard. Prior to release, 28% of games used very easy, with 12% on easy.


BBA Launch and Reception

An enormous number of fans are playing the game and we’ve hit several new records compared to NSB and previous releases. This said, BBA has been an unusual release. In comparison to the points above, we’ve also seen some dissatisfaction and confusion over certain mechanics. Combined with the excellent and consistent player numbers, this contributes to some difficulty in interpreting the situation. This said, we clearly don’t intend to handwave away feedback simply because it does not appear wholly representative.g

Thus, it can be difficult to ‘read the room’ on the key pain points that an entire community defines - what may seem obvious to one player is not always the same for others, and the vocabulary users exercise to express themselves over an issue often differs. It is also worth noting that compared to previous releases, the number of reported issues is actually lower in BBA - we’re still working on how to interpret this dissonance.

Peace conferences have by far been the most frequent talking point amongst the community. After a deep dive, it is clear that there are three main narrative detractors:
  • Genuine bugs (ie: behavior we consider not to be ‘working as designed’)
  • Confusion over the rules in the new system
  • Disagreement with the direction of the new implementation of peace conferences
The majority of legitimate bugs we’ve identified here are to do with AI behavior. This is something we consider a known issue, and are iterating on improving this. We’ve made some fixes in the last few patches, and we have some wider-ranging changes coming soon.

In terms of confusion over the new system, this is something we have some longer-term desire to improve. A lot of changes were made to core systems in BBA, for which players had already established a sense of mastery and habit. This extends to both peace conferences and the air system. In retrospect, changing these habits could have been accompanied with clearer onboarding for the new expectations. That’s on me, and we’ll have this in mind for future developments.

One of the major misunderstandings we’re seeing in the wild is to do with ending bidding. Players who are used to the old behavior are ending their participation with bids selected, expecting to be granted the territory they’ve bidded upon. In reality, there is nothing stopping the AI or other players from contesting these bids, now without the risk of being re-contested. We’re considering mitigation for this behavior.

Disagreement with the direction of the new peace conference system is a more nuanced debate, but one which we feel is primarily influenced by the previous two points. On one hand, we have a sizable cadre of players who enjoy the more adversarial nature of the conferences, and on the other hand, there are a range of opinions on how effective this turned out to be.

There are several commonly occurring conference comments worth mentioning:

  • Defeated major nations remaining ‘alive’ at the end of huge peace conferences is not intended to be a normal occurrence.

  • ‘Bordergore’ from the AI is worse than intended in certain situations - primarily ahistorical PCs involving multiple different-ideology factions.

  • ‘Bordergore’ created by players is a valid use of the peace conference system. While there are many legitimate concerns over how the AI is acting in some cases, we don’t consider it to be a failure of the system to allow the player to balkanize areas of the map if they so choose.

  • Limited points is a solution we are confident in as a necessity to drive a more adversarial conference system. It does, however, require a strong understanding of how bid conflicts are expected to work, and we can do better at telegraphing this in a conference situation. Passing turns for infinite points will not be making a return.

  • It is sometimes impossible to fully annex faraway war participants in smaller wars. This was somewhat intended, however the results of the balance around this are not something we consider satisfactory. There will be changes here.

  • Subjects and minor nations causing ‘trouble’ have generated some friction. We’ve addressed this in the short term with some balance, however we may look into game rules and/or options to allow the player to customize the nature of peace conference resolutions. This is not as trivial as it might sound. While the intended narrative of conferences was always intended to be an adversarial conflict between ideological/major actors in an immediate post-war scenario, many players enjoy having more control over the endgame - as evidenced by the popularity of mods such as Player Led Peace Conferences. Supporting this behavior for mods is something we fully intend to do, and there are some steps we can take to make this easier.

On the subject of the air system and plane designer, we’ll be working on some improvements to the flavor elements that were somewhat lost during the transition to the new designer interface, as well as tackling bugs as we see them. There’s been a lot of guesswork from the community over what the ‘air combat formula’ is - much of which has resulted in erroneous conclusions. We’ll be making sure that the relevant parts of this are more clearly communicated; either in-game or through the wiki for those who want a deeper dive into the numbers.

We’ve now released two patches for BBA which address many of the most frequently occurring problems. We have more bugfix patches planned in the short term (likely next week for our next iteration), as well as a patch scheduled slightly more distantly with some more impactful changes.

In addition to the above, we will be continuing with the practice of monthly recurring patches throughout the BBA lifecycle - as indicated previously, we recognize the importance of ongoing maintenance for HoI.

All in all, many of you are continuing to find great enjoyment in BBA, and we fully intend to keep working on the key areas that some of you feel don’t meet your standards.
 

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No mention on air wing size?

Are we actually going to be just stuck with 100 plane air wings?
 
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Are you satisfied with how the naval rebalance worked out?
It's too early for a complete review of the effects it's had on the wider game community, however I am happy with many of the individual changes made and the direction this had moved play so far. This is not to say this is the end of tweaks to the system or balance that will continue as we move closer and closer incrementally and deliberately to a desired point. Additionally, the new tools created for 1.12.0 allow for some better control over previous versions of the naval component of the game.
 
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I remember in the previous peace conference system you could give land to puppets you make during the conference whereas now it's limited to puppets you previously owned. I really liked being able to set up the postwar borders between puppeted or liberated countries for RP reasons, is there any chance of this coming back?
 
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How common are 15+ hour games that the devs have stats on them? I've played ~1000 hours of HOI4 so far, and even my world conquest run only got ~14 hours in.
 
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Make it so puppet nation/s contribution count towards the master's. Then should be upto the master, post-PC, to give land to puppets if desired. Annoying how Romania took Canada and Siberia lmao they're tundra but they're my tundra!
 
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Two things that definetely need to be changed:
1) the fact that you can use additional demands in new peace conferences only when puppeting someone is STUPID. Why would you demilitarize your own puppet? Don't you rather demand war reparations on your main opponets rather than sattelite states? Please change that, because it renders those demands useless and discourages buying BBA
2) after the air rework managing planes is really confusing, for example I couldn't find CV plane tech because it was hidden in smaller air frames (this is a general problem in tech revorks, more and more techs end up being obscured under others. You should modify the icons and names so that it's clearer what is where). Also it's very unconvienient that the type of newly designed planes isn't displayed in production tab, there are still called "small/medium/large airframes" and you only have an small icons which meangins are hard to memorize

And yeah, situations where you defeat a country with only your puppets and you cannot fully annex/puppet because of limited points are very frustrating.
 
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Currently, the biggest systematic issues seem to be the peace deals, and Italy's balance of power.

Peace Deals:

Peace deals are a major cause of annoyance, mainly because there are a lot of cases where countries can just survive it due to there not being enough warscore. I've heard stories about players intentionally dragging out wars now to get more warscore, which just sounds gamey and annoying. For one, I think if there was only 1 participant in a war, there should probably be a significant boost to the amount of points you receive in the peace deal, to ensure you can take all navies/states/resource rights or whatever you wish to accomplish.

Another issue I've noticed with the peace deals is namely the peace deals from the allies or the Japanese. In every game I've played so far, if I defeat the allies, then they can usually manage to survive in India because I do not have enough points to annex every single state (Especially if you want to take some of the royal navy too). I can understand wanting certain factions to be able to survive peace deals like how it used to happen, but the change that makes every single country involved in the deal even if they haven't participated makes this a little awkward. If a country is meant to survive (like how canada would usually live and take over the allies pre-BBA), then have them not even initially available to take in the peace deal.

The Japanese faction is another major issue with peace deals. Although Europe can typically have a mostly-historical results nowadays, the Japanese peace deal has gotten so much worse. I've yet to see a game where Japan itself gets fully annexed/puppeted, as they always seemed to survive in one state. This happened both in AI-only wars, as well as one where I myself was playing America. This mainly results from a focus they have, spiritual mobilization, which makes their states more expensive to take in a peace deal. However, it doesn't seem to make puppeting them any cheaper, so it almost always results in nationalist Japan being able to survive in one random state. Not to mention how annoying it is that the chinese can steal a bunch of random islands that they never touched, they should really have an AI goal to only reclaim stuff from the mainland unless they actually reached the home islands. Especially the chinese warlords, who each seem to get their own personal puppet.

Italy's Balance of Power:

This is the other major annoying system, which just seems kind of unbalanced/overlooked at the moment. In a historical context, this system makes perfect sense to simulate how the war went for Italy, and I overall think it was a highly positive change. However, it almost always falls apart when you go just a little ahistorical. It is way too easy for Mussolini to lose power, as you can get deposed for losing states that you annexed much later on in the game. This just seems silly, especially for those games where Rome was restored, and yet Mussolini can still get deposed by losing western Australia.

I think there's some easy ways to fix this, and I have 2 simple solutions in mind. They are:
- Make it so the BoP only shifts if Italian starting states are lost
- Make it so if Mussolini reaches total dictatorship level of BoP, or if Greater Italy/Rome is restored, that the BoP mechanic gets disabled and there can no longer be a civil war.

These changes should reduce the most egregious examples of ruined Italy games post BBA. Another big issue with it is just visibility, as it can be really hard to tell when the BoP suddenly shifts towards one side. I think it should maybe be added as a UI feature to the top screen for nations that have a BoP, with it put alongside PP, Stab, WS, etc. I'd imagine it in a similar implementation to how Kaiserreich shows what ideology you are towards the top left of the screen.

At the moment the mechanic is so annoying that its better to just conquer the allies before even unlocking it.
 
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Probably people aren't reporting as many issues because they're not sure what's actually intended.

Also, can we please get 4th and 5th research slot foci? Being stuck on 3 or 4 is just bad.
 
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Also, can we please get 4th and 5th research slot foci? Being stuck on 3 or 4 is just bad.
Wait, this problem is still persists? For which nations?
 
I would play on very hard difficulty, if it weren't for the fact it nerfs your research speed. I'd much rather have tons of buffs for the AI, than nerfing my research speed. So I use mods + country sliders to buff the AI and always play on normal difficulty
Take what BICE does with very hard difficulty, for example. Instead of nerfing research, they nerf PP gain, your IC production, and buffs the AI
 
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While I'm loving the new plane designer, I feel like a lot of modules ended up being kind of useless or not really working the way it's supposed to compared to real planes. Like I've had multiple games trying various plane combinations, but I still don't get how the different radios work and why certain weapons you can only mount a limited number of without knowing what the number even is. Or how if you focus on light plane models, you can't really upgrade CAS or NAV planes with extra torpedos or heavier bombs which is what they did realistically, instead all you can do is rush anti-tank cannons for CAS and try to get super late anti-ship rockets for NAV.
Then after that you get the extra modules in which it seems like drop tanks and self sealing tanks is basically a must, but other modules seem kind of useless.

Is there any plans to rebalance and the plane designer or even sort of "redesigning" tank or ship designer in similar ways as well?
 
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I would play on very hard difficulty, if it weren't for the fact it nerfs your research speed. I'd much rather have tons of buffs for the AI, than nerfing my research speed. So I use mods + country sliders to buff the AI and always play on normal difficulty
Mods are the way. Paradox has to build the main game to appeal to the casual (for HOI) segment who won't touch mods. With mods, we can customize exactly how we wish. It's a little weird playing without them to try out the new stuff!
 
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BBA is a really great DLC and that is why you're probably seeing such good feedback; the dissonance with the loud complaints towards the new peace conferences shouldn't be seen as an oddity but simply as a "player psichology problem"

HoI4 is a war game, it's not EU4, it's not CK3, nor Victoria nor Stellaris. The end of the war is basically the end of the game and, in a sense, the peace deal is sort of like the "reward". Players want a pretty looking map that looks cool because it's their reward for winning, even if the new map does not generate any possible conflict points

Obviously from a gameplay point of view it makes more sense to have an adversarial system which ends with the winning powers creating border conflicts that could be resolved through another war, which is the entire point of the game.
Players don't really see peace conferences that way thougj, at least not most of them in my experience within the communty; I myself like having a new war to look forward to but I know for a fact that for many many players the first major peace conference is basically game over.

This is probably why a lot of the complaints I've read on the HoI4 subreddit involve the fact that you can no longer feed territory to a pupper you've created in the peace conference itself. Players used that feature to paint the map the way they wanted to have a nice, endorphin filling, last look at the world they just fought over.

I know I'm just rambling at this point but this is, in my opinion, the real reason why there was so much noise regarding the new peace deals (ignoring the actual bugs and issues that were not intended).

Maybe having a game rule that allows players deeper control over the peace deals would be a great idea
 
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I think there's some easy ways to fix this, and I have 2 simple solutions in mind. They are:
- Make it so the BoP only shifts if Italian starting states are lost
- Make it so if Mussolini reaches total dictatorship level of BoP, or if Greater Italy/Rome is restored, that the BoP mechanic gets disabled and there can no longer be a civil war.
this.png
 
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Wait, this problem is still persists? For which nations?
Ethiopia and Switzerland, though I haven't played Switzerland so that's secondhand. For Ethiopia though 1 slot is in a mutually exclusive sub branch of the communist path, and the other is a mutually exclusive focus in your industry path (though tbf the other focus didn't look all that appealing).

I've said it elsewhere and I'll say it again here, but a pair of foci that give you a research slot if you have 50+ factories plus sanity checks on everything that gives you research slots so you don't get more than 5 would be what I would consider a good fix. It ultimately wouldn't actually change any of my games much since by that time I'm close to being done but it would make the game feel better especially if i do play for longer.
 
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About tech organization: Is the team satisfied with how trees are displaced now?

Although I think naval improved, a few techs still could be combined (I'm looking at you FCS and Engines) or reorganized

Also, in general, the weight system looks like FAR better than what it was implemented on tanks. Is there any chance of adding (or allowing it to be modded) into tank designers?
 
About tech organization: Is the team satisfied with how trees are displaced now?

Although I think naval improved, a few techs still could be combined (I'm looking at you FCS and Engines) or reorganized

Also, in general, the weight system looks like FAR better than what it was implemented on tanks. Is there any chance of adding (or allowing it to be modded) into tank designers?
Is it currently planned no. Is it something that could theoretically happen yes, but so are many other competing ideas for this and many other things.
 
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