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EU4 - Development Diary - 15th of May 2018

Hello! So today's Dev Diary will be covering the ways to enter the Subcontinent of India. We’ve added two mechanics to help you gobbling up all those new juicy provinces in India if you are coming from distant lands.

First is the new unique government that the true heirs of Timur the Lame can claim, or as we good friends of him like to call him, our good Amir Timur. The Mughal Diwan will give the empire a bureaucracy capable of integrating the vast swaths of lands that lie before it. The reform mechanic replaces the promotion of cultures to one where the nation integrates a culture by assimilating it into its government. Assimilation of a culture happens when the nation have conquered every single province of that culture and that will make that culture a permanently accepted culture of the country.

eu4_4.png


Though besides only becoming promoted, if the Mughals manages to integrate an entire culture group into their empire they’ll get some small boni from the cultures contribution to the empire's administration. However this bonus is not permanent and is only kept as long as they can keep control of all the provinces.

Keep in mind all values are very work in progress and are very much subject to change and hit with nerf hammers!

eu4_5.png


The second feature we’ve added is for the Europeans and is called Charter Trade Company. This is a new diplomatic tool which will let you setup a trade company in foreign distant lands like Africa, South East Asia or India. The interaction has a base cost for establishing the expedition to the east. This cost is calculated on your colonial range meaning as you progress in technology it will get cheaper, or if you have modifiers that steers your nation to the more adventurous type. This action can only be used on Trade Company Charter regions and any provinces you gain from this will automatically be made into a Trade Company province.

eu4_6.png


It’s a small feature, but we put a lot of focus on making sure the AI uses this as one would expect . We did this since we know this has been a major pet peeve of you lot, ranging from it not being worth it shipping your troops over half the world to just simply the AI never does.

So we put our elbow grease on to make it possible to “get started” in the far east and that the colonizers of Europe would understand how to do this. While playing this is how it turned out for me with Spain buying provinces in Madagascar, Gujarat, Coromandel and Portugal in Goa and the Malabar Coast. Also bonus with the Turkish West India Company next to the Spanish Gujarat.

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Next thing on the agenda is PDXCON! You should look up the EU4 booth and I'll happily tease you about how cool the upcoming features are :cool:
See you there!
 
The more polished the old world is,the more apparent the new world's breakdown is. The new changes to better reflect european trading outposts and a more fluid governement system are really starting to clash with the rigid, unweildy systems of north america. I love the content in this update, i'm not one to complain about getting more things, but seriously, I really hope the next expantion is going to be North America.
 
@Groogy

Hey, minor mod developer here! I'm really loving the look of your India overhaul so far, and I'm thrilled to see the region getting some attention! I am a bit concerned about these new mechanics, though, specifically how moddable they will be.

I expect the new culture bonus will be easy enough to mod (though I do share a few peoples' concerns about the whole value judgement on cultures' worth thing) but with the new trade charter mechanics, I'm really happy to see things moving in this direction, and I'm also not wanting a perfect Treaty of Tordesillas game everytime, but I'm cringing a bit to see Spain *and* Portugal both so strong in India already by 1551, not to mention the Ottomans. I hope modders will get some control over factors & AI behaviour here? =D

Specifically, I'd love to see some historical-esque treaty ports established (and by the AI, no less, bravo!) but I also wouldn't want to see all of Asia turn into a free-for-all, with a different European trade city every other province by 1600. Historically, wasn't it mostly a Portuguese affair until the 17th century, and a good half of the others' simply replacing the older Portguese ports? I'd also echo concerns from others about claiming important provinces (such as the last coastal province, or provinces with modifiers etc.), and more specifically, request that modders get some control for mod-added modifiers or different provinces/densities/trade company zones?

Please pardon the rambling, and keep up the good work!

Nothing to say one way to expand rules out another. Expansion in Indonesia and Philippines can still be mostly military just like it is in release.
As was already hinted there might be more that we have yet to reveal though ;)
I'm surprised how excited people are. These are some of our smaller features and. We have a lot more in store...

Well aren't you two cheeky? =D I applaud your expert teasing my good sirs!
 
The more polished the old world is,the more apparent the new world's breakdown is. The new changes to better reflect european trading outposts and a more fluid governement system are really starting to clash with the rigid, unweildy systems of north america. I love the content in this update, i'm not one to complain about getting more things, but seriously, I really hope the next expantion is going to be North America.
The New World doesn't need any expansion. There's only a need for a polishing patch somehow fixing the mess institutions made in NAm, Meso- and Southern America.
New provinces for these regions (Mesoamerica might need a handful, but that's far less than an expansion should give) are wasted, as they have to be colonised anyway and don't change the gameplay at all.
 
The New World doesn't need any expansion. There's only a need for a polishing patch somehow fixing the mess institutions made in NAm, Meso- and Southern America.
New provinces for these regions (Mesoamerica might need a handful, but that's far less than an expansion should give) are wasted, as they have to be colonised anyway and don't change the gameplay at all.

Actually, a complete overhaul is really what's needed. The Native council governement type is basically completely Broken for one, moving tribes from their historical locations and allowing players to exploit it by moving around the map just makes it a broken mechanic that needs to be changed. Totemist is also a gross oversimplification, as not all of north america had totems. Plus, there are a handfull of relevant, advanced countries that in an alt history scenario could rise to try and resist european imperialism, like the Navaho and Iroquoi who are both lacking in mechanics and in game depth.

If I had to guess, the new more dynamic governement types are a prelude to a north america region overhaul like Third rome for russia
 
Boy, this is good.

Now @Groogy, something I didn't understand; who will have this diplomatic option? In the DD you said Europeans but in one of the comments you said it's anyone that can make a Trade Company. If I'm in Bengal, can I ask Madagascar to sell me one province, and vice-versa?
Yes you can
 
Actually, a complete overhaul is really what's needed. The Native council governement type is basically completely Broken for one, moving tribes from their historical locations and allowing players to exploit it by moving around the map just makes it a broken mechanic that needs to be changed. Totemist is also a gross oversimplification, as not all of north america had totems. Plus, there are a handfull of relevant, advanced countries that in an alt history scenario could rise to try and resist european imperialism, like the Navaho and Iroquoi who are both lacking in mechanics and in game depth.

If I had to guess, the new more dynamic governement types are a prelude to a north america region overhaul like Third rome for russia
You're asking for a rework of an already existing mechanic. That's not part of any DLC!

What you are proposing might be a minor part of a Spanish DLC, but yet another colonisation DLC would be too much. I doubt they'll make immersion packs for non-European countries, as immersion packs live from the country they are linked to.
 
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Wouldn't expansion be a better bet? Expansion was traditionally focused around expanding into Asia while exploration was focused on expanding into the Americas. It might make expansion a more desirable idea choice...

@Groogy

Great Raja Groog -- cosigning on the above request. I'll buy you an ice cream cone if you help buff Expansion ideas. Anything to make it more relevant than the current state. Plus it does apply thematically as it already has CB finisher dedicated to TC land.
 
You're asking for a rework of an already existing mechanic. That's not part of any DLC!

What you are proposing might be a minor part of a Spanish DLC, but yet another colonisation DLC would be too much. I doubt they'll make immersion packs for non-European countries, as immersion packs live from the country they are linked to.

Not a colonisation dlc, a dlc for the actual north american natives to better represent them and their situation. Most people seem to try to dismiss the natives in north america as “destined to be steamrolled” and “Didint accomplish much”, but this is just false. The Iroquoi had one of the most advanced legislative systems of their time, directly being the fundemental inspiration for the us constitution. A large native-held land “emprie” was created out of the competition for european trade. Native assistance in wars between north american europeans would remain a decisive factor up untill at least the war of 1812. The Navaho people in the region of pueblo held one of the most complex and strong religious systems, sucsesfully resisting conversion from the spanish and lasting into the modern day. The fact is, the mechanics present in north america do not do a good job of representing this.
 
@Groogy
1. will creating a trade charter give out a truce with the locals or can a player chain it with "threaten war" for rapid expansion?
2. will the trade charter only work on nations with the capital in the same charter region or will we be able to pay portugal to get Goa?
 
Nothing to say one way to expand rules out another. Expansion in Indonesia and Philippines can still be mostly military just like it is in release.
As was already hinted there might be more that we have yet to reveal though ;)

I'm surprised how excited people are. These are some of our smaller features and. We have a lot more in store...
EIC and Puppets hype!
 
First is the new unique government that the true heirs of Timur the Lame can claim, or as we good friends of him like to call him, our good Amir Timur. The Mughal Diwan will give the empire a bureaucracy capable of integrating the vast swaths of lands that lie before it. The reform mechanic replaces the promotion of cultures to one where the nation integrates a culture by assimilating it into its government. Assimilation of a culture happens when the nation have conquered every single province of that culture and that will make that culture a permanently accepted culture of the country.
Excellent! Because we all know that one of the big problems in EU is that blobs are too unstable. And particularly that historic powerhouse of stability, the Mughals, just keep on collapsing every game I play, unlike history.
The second feature we’ve added is for the Europeans and is called Charter Trade Company. This is a new diplomatic tool which will let you setup a trade company in foreign distant lands like Africa, South East Asia or India. The interaction has a base cost for establishing the expedition to the east. This cost is calculated on your colonial range meaning as you progress in technology it will get cheaper, or if you have modifiers that steers your nation to the more adventurous type. This action can only be used on Trade Company Charter regions and any provinces you gain from this will automatically be made into a Trade Company province.
I know you've said that these are just placeholder values, but, seriously, paying 1743 gold for a province (from the image you posted) is just crazy bad strategy. If you can afford to pay that kind of gold, you can afford a war, and the war will be much more cost-effective. (And if you can't afford a war, you won't be able to hold the province you just bought. Think about it.)

If you want the Europeans to be able to conquer around the world, then give them back the casi belli you took away from them (probably with some rebalancing). Or acknowledge that you've made a game design choice that you don't want the Europeans to expand around the world. Don't give the Europeans really awful "options" that players will never use, and then program the AI to sabotage itself by using those terrible options.

Colonists telling the natives "hey, will you let us have this marginal piece of land if we fill a 10 by 10 by 10 foot room with gold for you?" was never a thing.

If you really want to help the AI colonize, one thing would be to convince it to build forts in its colonies. Most games I play, I watch AI Portugal colonize the West African coast. They never build a fort there. (I've never noticed the AI building new forts anywhere, particularly in their colonies, although I've occasionally seen them upgrade existing forts.) Then war comes, and Morocco's ally in West Africa walks through those coastal colonies and racks up easy warscore occupying them. Darn, never could have seen that coming! Historically, when the Portuguese set up their first trading station on the west African coast, they brought a prefabricated fort with them on their ships. But here you are, programming the AI to spend 1743 gold to buy provinces they won't ship armies to nor spend 200 gold to build a fort in.
 
i'm really disquieted with how such bonuses will inevitably lead to comparisons being made between cultures, and how some of them will be deemed more worthy than others.
Don’t be that guy
 
Japan historically made an artificial island for the Dutch to use as a trade enclave. Japan in EU4 would be an empire, so what happened historically wouldn't possible in game with this rule. Thoughts?
Doesn’t forming japan raise you to empire rank?
Also Macau in China went from a bush to a city because of the Portugese draining the land
Hopefully they add Hong Kong as well
 
Will be possible to Portugal to buy Macau to the Chinese Emperor or Nagasaki to Japan as historically happened?
Nagasaki was founded by the Portuguese no?
Or do you mean a province to represent the land, and then some events to make it go from 1/1/1
Honestly I wish trade increased development via event or something
 
No because of Celestial Emperorship we can't have Ming sell provinces I'm afraid :(
If they would get a huge player buy a province which refuses to be a tributary then China will pretty much collapse immediately. Doesn't make sense for the AI to kill itself for that.
Maybe an event for a East India Company Tag?
Then the impact on mandate would be minimal
 
The more polished the old world is,the more apparent the new world's breakdown is. The new changes to better reflect european trading outposts and a more fluid governement system are really starting to clash with the rigid, unweildy systems of north america. I love the content in this update, i'm not one to complain about getting more things, but seriously, I really hope the next expantion is going to be North America.

The new world's #1 top tier overwhelming issue is that it remains the only place on the game board where the player has no agency on progression for wide swaths of the game. New mechanics or not, unless that changes it will remain a cancerous part of the game. For all the complaining about reform tech boost, neither the tech boost nor the need to wait 100 years to receive it should be a thing in the game.

Meanwhile Pdox plays half pretend, banning them from warships (reasonable) but also from simply colonizing Caribbean/coastal waters (not reasonable), erring on the side of making actually picking a new world start as degenerate as possible once you've passed reforms.

NA council stuff from CoP is years old and shows its age, but the top issue with playing there pervades every single start in NA and SA: denial of agency to progress.

  • Busoga can develop institutions, take coast, build a navy, and reach the Philippines before 1600 without being touched by Europeans, if something really weird happens in Europe (aka Aragon conquering all of Iberia, France taking exploration 3rd or 4th).
  • Aztec can...either run no-CB shenanigans and hope colonization in Brazil is also not delayed or just sit there.
Regardless of what happens with DLC, patch focus, or anything else, that 2nd bullet point is degenerate and poor design. Patch should address it even if we never see another new world DLC again...in fact this should be a higher priority than any pure-patch region overhaul by a wide margin. Literally nowhere else in the world asks you to not play the game for 1/3 of the game.
 
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