Welcome to another development diary about Europa Universalis IV. This time we talk about something that will be in the next major patch we do.

One of the parts of the game that has not changed much since eu1 is the concept of technology groups and technological development around the world. We’ve added concepts like westernising, and tweaked that one, but in the end Europe has a huge advantage from day 1, and lots of fun gameplay options are limited the further away you are.

So this is what will happen in 1.18, when it is released this autumn..

A nation’s technology group no longer affect technology research.

There is now a concept called Institutions, which will affect your technology research. There are seven different institutions that appear over the game, and if you don’t get them to spread into your country and then get embraced by your government, your technology costs will slowly rise.

Each institution will appear in a province fullfilling certain factors, and then slowly spread around the world. The nation owning that province will gain prestige and monarch power.

Every year the penalty for not having embraced an institution will grow by 1%, so there is a gradual process.

When an institution has spread to at least 10% of your development, you can embrace it in your government, removing the penalty permanently, and also giving a bonus to your nation. The cost to embrace depends on the amount of development in your nation without the institution.

All institutions spread over borders (including 1 seazone away), if relations are positive, and the spread is based on development in the province getting it. There are also lots of other factors related to the spread.

So which are the the seven institutions then?

Feudalism
This is present from the start in almost all the world, except among the hordes, new world and sub-saharan africa. It will slowly spread into neighboring lands, but it is not quick.
Bonus: Gives 1 extra free leader.
Penalty: 50%


Renaissance
This appears in Italy after 1450, in either a capital or a 20+ development province. It will spread quickly through high development in europe, particularly through italy, but can only spread into provinces that have feudalism already.
Bonus: 5% Cheaper Development & 5% Cheaper Buildings
Penalty: 20%


Colonialism
Appears after 1500 in a port province in Europe, who’s owner has the Quest of the New World idea, and have discovered the new world. And will spread very quickly through any port in countries with colonies.
Bonus: +10% Provincial Trade Power
Penalty: 20%


Printing Press
This arrives after 1550, most likely in germany, but can happen in any protestant or reformed province. It will spread quickly in Protestant and Reformed territory, but also into capitals with dip tech 15.
Bonus: 5& Cheaper Stability
Penalty: 20%


Global Trade
This arrives after 1600, in a center of trade in the highest value trade node, and will spread quicker into provinces with trade buildings.
Bonus: +1 Merchant
Penalty: 20%

Manufactories
This arrives after 1650 in a province with 30 development and a manufactory, and will spread quicker into provinces with manufactories.
Bonus: +10% Goods Produced
Penalty: 20%

Enlightenment
Arrives after 1700 in a province that either is a seat of a parliament, or is a province in europe owned by a monarch with at least 5 in all stats. Universities & Parliament Seats spread this institution.
Bonus: 25% Cheaper Culture Conversion
Penalty: 30%
​

What does this mean?


The progress of Europe is not guaranteed, but most importantly, a nation in Asia or Africa is no longer crippled from day 1, and forced to avoid spending power on ideas and development.

------

We’re constantly tweaking the spread factors, but here are some screenshots from mid 18th century in a hands-off game from this morning.

This is the institutions mapmode, where green are provinces that have all the enabled institutions, and yellow are don’t have them all.

And here is the technology mapmode, of the same game.

Some other aspects that has changed include the following
- New World Native Reforming will give you all institutions that the one you reform from has.
- Trade Companies are available to all technology groups.
- Lots and lots of triggers on western techgroups have been changed to check for specific relevant institutions.

 

[Usuario cabreado]

Welcome to another development diary about Europa Universalis IV. This time we talk about something that will be in the next major patch we do.

One of the parts of the game that has not changed much since eu1 is the concept of technology groups and technological development around the world. We’ve added concepts like westernising, and tweaked that one, but in the end Europe has a huge advantage from day 1, and lots of fun gameplay options are limited the further away you are.

So this is what will happen in 1.18, when it is released this autumn..

A nation’s technology group no longer affect technology research.

There is now a concept called Institutions, which will affect your technology research. There are seven different institutions that appear over the game, and if you don’t get them to spread into your country and then get embraced by your government, your technology costs will slowly rise.

Each institution will appear in a province fullfilling certain factors, and then slowly spread around the world. The nation owning that province will gain prestige and monarch power.

Every year the penalty for not having embraced an institution will grow by 1%, so there is a gradual process.

When an institution has spread to at least 10% of your development, you can embrace it in your government, removing the penalty permanently, and also giving a bonus to your nation. The cost to embrace depends on the amount of development in your nation without the institution.

All institutions spread over borders (including 1 seazone away), if relations are positive, and the spread is based on development in the province getting it. There are also lots of other factors related to the spread.

So which are the the seven institutions then?

Feudalism
This is present from the start in almost all the world, except among the hordes, new world and sub-saharan africa. It will slowly spread into neighboring lands, but it is not quick.
Bonus: Gives 1 extra free leader.
Penalty: 50%


Renaissance
This appears in Italy after 1450, in either a capital or a 20+ development province. It will spread quickly through high development in europe, particularly through italy, but can only spread into provinces that have feudalism already.
Bonus: 5% Cheaper Development & 5% Cheaper Buildings
Penalty: 20%


Colonialism
Appears after 1500 in a port province in Europe, who’s owner has the Quest of the New World idea, and have discovered the new world. And will spread very quickly through any port in countries with colonies.
Bonus: +10% Provincial Trade Power
Penalty: 20%


Printing Press
This arrives after 1550, most likely in germany, but can happen in any protestant or reformed province. It will spread quickly in Protestant and Reformed territory, but also into capitals with dip tech 15.
Bonus: 5& Cheaper Stability
Penalty: 20%


Global Trade
This arrives after 1600, in a center of trade in the highest value trade node, and will spread quicker into provinces with trade buildings.
Bonus: +1 Merchant
Penalty: 20%

Manufactories
This arrives after 1650 in a province with 30 development and a manufactory, and will spread quicker into provinces with manufactories.
Bonus: +10% Goods Produced
Penalty: 20%

Enlightenment
Arrives after 1700 in a province that either is a seat of a parliament, or is a province in europe owned by a monarch with at least 5 in all stats. Universities & Parliament Seats spread this institution.
Bonus: 25% Cheaper Culture Conversion
Penalty: 30%
​

What does this mean?


The progress of Europe is not guaranteed, but most importantly, a nation in Asia or Africa is no longer crippled from day 1, and forced to avoid spending power on ideas and development.

------

We’re constantly tweaking the spread factors, but here are some screenshots from mid 18th century in a hands-off game from this morning.

This is the institutions mapmode, where green are provinces that have all the enabled institutions, and yellow are don’t have them all.

And here is the technology mapmode, of the same game.

Some other aspects that has changed include the following
- New World Native Reforming will give you all institutions that the one you reform from has.
- Trade Companies are available to all technology groups.
- Lots and lots of triggers on western techgroups have been changed to check for specific relevant institutions.

 

[Mikeliini]

I would add "Liberalism" from the 1750 onward. Bonus +10% trade power. Neg. forbids embargoes and -1% per year on mercantilism.

I would also add combo events for the institutions:
Feudalism + Renaissance --> "Power Struggle" gives -2 local unrest in every province. Event leads to "Absolute ruler", when 100% is full (If Burgher influence higher than X then + 1%, if Nobility influence higher than Y, then -1%, if ADM tech higher than Z, then + 1% per year). "Absolute Ruler" ends "Power Struggle" and nation is again in normality.

Feudalism + Colonialism --> "Conquistadors" gives an optional event "Free Conquistador" if you have none at your current service. "Conquistadors" is only available if there is no "Absolute ruler".

Renaissance + Colonialism --> "Viceroys" gives +10% global tariffs, when 100% is full (1% per year per colonial nation).

Renaissance + Printing Press --> "Humanities" gives -10% in ideas, when 100% is full (+1% for every University per year).

Colonialism + Printing Press --> "Empiricism" gives free University, when 100% is full (+0,1% for every month you have Natural Scientist or Philosopher. -0,1% if you have Theologian or Inquisitor).

Global Trade ends/cancels events "Power Struggle", "Absolute Ruler" and "Conquistadors".

Renaissance + Global Trade --> "Banking" gives -0,1% for inflation per year, when 100% is full (+1% for every 2% above trade income 30%).

Colonialism + Global Trade --> "Inflation" gives +0,1% for inflation per year.

Printing Press + Global Trade --> "Joint Stock Companies" gives + 10% global trade power, when 100% is full (0,1% for every month for every CoT you are the biggest trader)

Colonialism + Manufactories --> "Triangular Trade", gives 10% trade power for trade ships, when 100% is full (+1% for each type of provinces: Tobacco, Sugar, Cotton, Slaves)

Printing Press + Manufactories --> "Central banking" gives +10% taxes. Triggers only if "Banking" and "Joint Stock Companies" are present.

Global Trade + Manufactories --> "Capitalism" gives + 10% in production, when 100% is full (+0,5% for every manufactory per year).

Enlightenment ends/cancels events "Humanities" and "Empiricism".

Printing Press + Enlightenment --> "No Taxation without Representation" Gives +20% Liberty desire for the Colonial Nations. Ends "Viceroys".

Global Trade + Enlightenment --> "Abolition of Slavery" optional event. Ends "Triangular Trade". If "Abolition of Slavery" is not triggered, then can get events "Rally for the Abolition" giving -5 local unrest in the province. Highest dev. provinces are most likely to get this event.

Manufactories + Enlightenment --> "Rise of the Third Estate" gives -5 local unrest in every province. Triggers when 100% is full (+5% for every year if not Constitutional, Enlightened Despotism, Revolutionary Empire or English Monarchy OR any kind of Republic).

Global Trade + Liberalism --> "Free Trade" gives +20% trade power for trade ships, when 100% is full (0,1% for every month for every CoT you are the biggest trader)

Manufactories + Liberalism --> "Industrial revolution" doubles the production of the manufactures, when 100% is full (+0,5% for every manufactory per year)

Enlightenment + Liberalism --> "Checks and balances" optional event. Gives -20% on global tariffs. Gives -20% Liberty desire for the Colonial Nations.

 

[Usuario cabreado]

Welcome to another development diary about Europa Universalis IV. This time we talk about something that will be in the next major patch we do.

One of the parts of the game that has not changed much since eu1 is the concept of technology groups and technological development around the world. We’ve added concepts like westernising, and tweaked that one, but in the end Europe has a huge advantage from day 1, and lots of fun gameplay options are limited the further away you are.

So this is what will happen in 1.18, when it is released this autumn..

A nation’s technology group no longer affect technology research.

There is now a concept called Institutions, which will affect your technology research. There are seven different institutions that appear over the game, and if you don’t get them to spread into your country and then get embraced by your government, your technology costs will slowly rise.

Each institution will appear in a province fullfilling certain factors, and then slowly spread around the world. The nation owning that province will gain prestige and monarch power.

Every year the penalty for not having embraced an institution will grow by 1%, so there is a gradual process.

When an institution has spread to at least 10% of your development, you can embrace it in your government, removing the penalty permanently, and also giving a bonus to your nation. The cost to embrace depends on the amount of development in your nation without the institution.

All institutions spread over borders (including 1 seazone away), if relations are positive, and the spread is based on development in the province getting it. There are also lots of other factors related to the spread.

So which are the the seven institutions then?

Feudalism
This is present from the start in almost all the world, except among the hordes, new world and sub-saharan africa. It will slowly spread into neighboring lands, but it is not quick.
Bonus: Gives 1 extra free leader.
Penalty: 50%


Renaissance
This appears in Italy after 1450, in either a capital or a 20+ development province. It will spread quickly through high development in europe, particularly through italy, but can only spread into provinces that have feudalism already.
Bonus: 5% Cheaper Development & 5% Cheaper Buildings
Penalty: 20%


Colonialism
Appears after 1500 in a port province in Europe, who’s owner has the Quest of the New World idea, and have discovered the new world. And will spread very quickly through any port in countries with colonies.
Bonus: +10% Provincial Trade Power
Penalty: 20%


Printing Press
This arrives after 1550, most likely in germany, but can happen in any protestant or reformed province. It will spread quickly in Protestant and Reformed territory, but also into capitals with dip tech 15.
Bonus: 5& Cheaper Stability
Penalty: 20%


Global Trade
This arrives after 1600, in a center of trade in the highest value trade node, and will spread quicker into provinces with trade buildings.
Bonus: +1 Merchant
Penalty: 20%

Manufactories
This arrives after 1650 in a province with 30 development and a manufactory, and will spread quicker into provinces with manufactories.
Bonus: +10% Goods Produced
Penalty: 20%

Enlightenment
Arrives after 1700 in a province that either is a seat of a parliament, or is a province in europe owned by a monarch with at least 5 in all stats. Universities & Parliament Seats spread this institution.
Bonus: 25% Cheaper Culture Conversion
Penalty: 30%
​

What does this mean?


The progress of Europe is not guaranteed, but most importantly, a nation in Asia or Africa is no longer crippled from day 1, and forced to avoid spending power on ideas and development.

------

We’re constantly tweaking the spread factors, but here are some screenshots from mid 18th century in a hands-off game from this morning.

This is the institutions mapmode, where green are provinces that have all the enabled institutions, and yellow are don’t have them all.

And here is the technology mapmode, of the same game.

Some other aspects that has changed include the following
- New World Native Reforming will give you all institutions that the one you reform from has.
- Trade Companies are available to all technology groups.
- Lots and lots of triggers on western techgroups have been changed to check for specific relevant institutions.

I've just signed in to paradox forum because I cannot believe what devs are doing to people who bought vanilla version... When I bought (I said BOUGHT, not rented) EUIV I never suspected that developers weren't going to let me play it in peace... because that's the fucking reality, you keep on updating and imposing to all of us to erase our saved games and to uninstall then install and wait for updated mods again and again. Can you believe that I've never been able to finish a single game???!!!! Not a single one, I promise.... Because every time you change the rules of this game with your constant updates, our saved games become unestable and buggy and all of our installed mods go shit. Is this how you support modder community? It's been so fucking horrendous this experience to me that I had to explode to tell you. I'm ffed up with you, devs. I hate you. You change things without asking nor considering what players think about those. I preferred previous versions of EUIV. COULD YOU PLEASE STOP IMPOSING CHANGES?.... PLEASE STOP THIS! STOP IT!!, STOP IT!!!, STOOOP IIIIT!!!!!!!!

 

[Canute VII]

I've just signed in to paradox forum because I cannot believe what devs are doing to people who bought vanilla version... When I bought (I said BOUGHT, not rented) EUIV I never suspected that developers weren't going to let me play it in peace... because that's the fucking reality, you keep on updating and imposing to all of us to erase our saved games and to uninstall then install and wait for updated mods again and again. Can you believe that I've never been able to finish a single game???!!!! Not a single one, I promise.... Because every time you change the rules of this game with your constant updates, our saved games become unestable and buggy and all of our installed mods go shit. Is this how you support modder community? It's been so fucking horrendous this experience to me that I had to explode to tell you. I'm ffed up with you, devs. I hate you. You change things without asking nor considering what players think about those. I preferred previous versions of EUIV. COULD YOU PLEASE STOP IMPOSING CHANGES?.... PLEASE STOP THIS! STOP IT!!, STOP IT!!!, STOOOP IIIIT!!!!!!!!

Wow, peace man... and have a look here, if you didn't know:
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...t-your-game-to-a-previous-patch-level.904414/
I also think that you should be able to desable the automatic updates in Steam. Maybe go to the "Technical Support" subforum and ask for help there, if you don't know where to find that option. And: have a nice day, though!

 

[Rip Off Productions]

I've just signed in to paradox forum because I cannot believe what devs are doing to people who bought vanilla version... When I bought (I said BOUGHT, not rented) EUIV I never suspected that developers weren't going to let me play it in peace... because that's the fucking reality, you keep on updating and imposing to all of us to erase our saved games and to uninstall then install and wait for updated mods again and again. Can you believe that I've never been able to finish a single game???!!!! Not a single one, I promise.... Because every time you change the rules of this game with your constant updates, our saved games become unestable and buggy and all of our installed mods go shit. Is this how you support modder community? It's been so fucking horrendous this experience to me that I had to explode to tell you. I'm ffed up with you, devs. I hate you. You change things without asking nor considering what players think about those. I preferred previous versions of EUIV. COULD YOU PLEASE STOP IMPOSING CHANGES?.... PLEASE STOP THIS! STOP IT!!, STOP IT!!!, STOOOP IIIIT!!!!!!!!

You can roll EU4 back to whatever previous version you like the best, even release day vanilla; do this by right clicking on EU4 in your Steam Library, go to the "Properties" option, and then go to "betas", there you can pick out what ever patch you want.

Your complaint is invalid.

 

[Emre Yigit]

I've just signed in to paradox forum because I cannot believe what devs are doing to people who bought vanilla version... When I bought (I said BOUGHT, not rented) EUIV I never suspected that developers weren't going to let me play it in peace... because that's the fucking reality, you keep on updating and imposing to all of us to erase our saved games and to uninstall then install and wait for updated mods again and again. Can you believe that I've never been able to finish a single game???!!!! Not a single one, I promise.... Because every time you change the rules of this game with your constant updates, our saved games become unestable and buggy and all of our installed mods go shit. Is this how you support modder community? It's been so fucking horrendous this experience to me that I had to explode to tell you. I'm ffed up with you, devs. I hate you. You change things without asking nor considering what players think about those. I preferred previous versions of EUIV. COULD YOU PLEASE STOP IMPOSING CHANGES?.... PLEASE STOP THIS! STOP IT!!, STOP IT!!!, STOOOP IIIIT!!!!!!!!

I sympathise. Believe me.

On the other hand, it does keep the game from going stale.

On the third hand - and more relevant for you - you can copy the entire EU4 directory from where it is stored (mine is in E:\Games\SteamLibrary\steamapps\common\Europa Universalis IV) to another place (eg E:\Games\Europa Universalis IV). You can play the copied EU4 without connecting to Steam. This way, you could play EU4 1.0 if you wanted to. However, you won't get Steam achievements in Ironman.

On the fourth hand, you can also opt out of the latest changes via Steam or indeed roll back to a previous version that you like. You should still get achievements.


EDIT: Gnnaaah! A "respectfully disagree" - with which of the half-dozen or so points raised, exactly, one wonders?

 

[Emre Yigit]

This: Landes, David S. (1998). The Wealth and Poverty of Nations: Why Some Are So Rich and Some So Poor.

Some backup reading for all (including pdx): http://pubs.aeaweb.org/doi/pdfplus/10.1257/jep.20.2.3
I found this article extremely good and well written, so can only recommend it

I remember reading that book when it came out. Landes makes good points. But it ignores a whole host of questions it should ask, begs others and is, I think, generally blinkered. A good read, but disappointing.

 

[RedBstrd]

Since some people have objected to the terms so far, perhaps some alternatives might be helpful:

Instead of "Printing Press," you could use "Printing Revolution," "Innovative Printing," "Printing Innovation," "Mass Printing," or "Print Culture."

Instead of "Global Trade," you could use "Market Economy" or "World-Economy." Obviously, "Global Trade" and "World-Economy" aren't much different in meaning, but the minor change is significant; it dispenses with the word "global," which might bother some people who associate it with later globalization (though not me, as I find Amartya Sen's arguments persuasive). Likewise, "world-economy" could be a nice alternative to "global trade" since it's the term that Fernand Braudel used to identify the regional (international but not truly global) markets developing in places like Europe in the 15th century prior to the rise of modern capitalism.

 

[tobias.mb]

Seems like a great new mechanic. Looking forward to playing rotw with it, though I am somewhat worried, about how Tech will spread if Europe doesn't develop quite as expected. e.g. What happens if Protestantism doesn't spread at all, or the colonizers don't arrive in Asia? I guess we'll have to wait for the patch and actually play it.

Another matter: Are the names for Institutions still under consideration? I don't like how the "Printing Press" institution only appears in 1550, when it already existed nearly a millenia in China. I think a name like "Printing Revolution" or "Spread of Mass-Printed Materials" would fit better.

 

[ilocpis23]

Interesting idea - but I cant say that Im in favor of it at this point.


Firstly - I think that the way Eastern vs. Western works right now is pretty great. Its not perfect, but its relatively 'historically accurate'. In addition, it allows for some interesting play via the Western Arms Trade option. Maybe it makes sense to expand 'Western Arms Trade' in some fashion and remove the 'you must be bordering a Western technology country to get that benefit' as that is not really historically accurate. There are many examples where 'Western Technology' was provided to 'Eastern Nations' and borders were not shared.

Secondly - I think there are other areas of the game that need to be looked at first before alterting Technology Groups. For example - the Ledger. There are so many interesting gameplay options that could be in the game related to the data contained in the Ledger.

As an example - why are nations given this data automatically? Why is getting some of the more specific data that is in the ledger not part of an idea group? Why is it currently not possible to become a 'Knowledge/Spy broker' nation in EU4 by investing in diplomacy and spies and then selling that data (that is typically contained in the ledger) abroad to countries who want it? That would certainly make for some interesting gameplay and possibly create a situation where there are other interesting and critical activities that can be done other than going to war.

I'm sure the response would be 'players need to make informed choices before delcaring war etc'. Great - so give them the minimum amounts of data without the technology group but they should still have to work for it!! There should still be some intersting play around it! Want to go to war? Want to know how many troops your opponent has? Send a diplomat with instructions to start seeding money and bribing officials to gather the data. Maybe the opponents corruption should go up and it tips them off that there is some espionage going on - I dont know - but there are a million options in there (especially related to finance - how many loans they have, income sources etc etc).


Why are there no options to try to corner the market on certain critical trade items? There is in an indirect way - but give us more tools there. Why is there no way to try to get group embargo's on a country and break them economically? The precursor to 'sanctions'. Why cant we have 'Freed trade pacts' with designated countries? Why is there not more done with 'support rebels'? There is probably 1-2 DLC's you could do there which would be interesting gameplay. Right now - its not only uninformative (the data provided when a player tries to support rebels) - its basic, and uninteresting.


The real deal is - Civ 6 is coming out - and EU4 needs to distinguish itself in a meaningful way from other strategy games. The tools are there - but I just feel like you guys arent capitalizing on some of the amazing underlying gameplay that is there - and it could be improved dramatically to have some very interesting gameplay.

 

[JakeCourtney]

Interesting idea - but I cant say that Im in favor of it at this point.


Firstly - I think that the way Eastern vs. Western works right now is pretty great. Its not perfect, but its relatively 'historically accurate'. In addition, it allows for some interesting play via the Western Arms Trade option. Maybe it makes sense to expand 'Western Arms Trade' in some fashion and remove the 'you must be bordering a Western technology country to get that benefit' as that is not really historically accurate. There are many examples where 'Western Technology' was provided to 'Eastern Nations' and borders were not shared.

Secondly - I think there are other areas of the game that need to be looked at first before alterting Technology Groups. For example - the Ledger. There are so many interesting gameplay options that could be in the game related to the data contained in the Ledger.

As an example - why are nations given this data automatically? Why is getting some of the more specific data that is in the ledger not part of an idea group? Why is it currently not possible to become a 'Knowledge/Spy broker' nation in EU4 by investing in diplomacy and spies and then selling that data (that is typically contained in the ledger) abroad to countries who want it? That would certainly make for some interesting gameplay and possibly create a situation where there are other interesting and critical activities that can be done other than going to war.

I'm sure the response would be 'players need to make informed choices before delcaring war etc'. Great - so give them the minimum amounts of data without the technology group but they should still have to work for it!! There should still be some intersting play around it! Want to go to war? Want to know how many troops your opponent has? Send a diplomat with instructions to start seeding money and bribing officials to gather the data. Maybe the opponents corruption should go up and it tips them off that there is some espionage going on - I dont know - but there are a million options in there (especially related to finance - how many loans they have, income sources etc etc).


Why are there no options to try to corner the market on certain critical trade items? There is in an indirect way - but give us more tools there. Why is there no way to try to get group embargo's on a country and break them economically? The precursor to 'sanctions'. Why cant we have 'Freed trade pacts' with designated countries? Why is there not more done with 'support rebels'? There is probably 1-2 DLC's you could do there which would be interesting gameplay. Right now - its not only uninformative (the data provided when a player tries to support rebels) - its basic, and uninteresting.


The real deal is - Civ 6 is coming out - and EU4 needs to distinguish itself in a meaningful way from other strategy games. The tools are there - but I just feel like you guys arent capitalizing on some of the amazing underlying gameplay that is there - and it could be improved dramatically to have some very interesting gameplay.

Ugh, doesn't it already? There is nothing else even close to EU4. Most people who picked up EU4 think Civ is a simpleton game in comparison.

 

[Freudia]

Secondly - I think there are other areas of the game that need to be looked at first before alterting Technology Groups. For example - the Ledger. There are so many interesting gameplay options that could be in the game related to the data contained in the Ledger.

As an example - why are nations given this data automatically? Why is getting some of the more specific data that is in the ledger not part of an idea group? Why is it currently not possible to become a 'Knowledge/Spy broker' nation in EU4 by investing in diplomacy and spies and then selling that data (that is typically contained in the ledger) abroad to countries who want it? That would certainly make for some interesting gameplay and possibly create a situation where there are other interesting and critical activities that can be done other than going to war.

I'm sure the response would be 'players need to make informed choices before delcaring war etc'. Great - so give them the minimum amounts of data without the technology group but they should still have to work for it!! There should still be some intersting play around it! Want to go to war? Want to know how many troops your opponent has? Send a diplomat with instructions to start seeding money and bribing officials to gather the data. Maybe the opponents corruption should go up and it tips them off that there is some espionage going on - I dont know - but there are a million options in there (especially related to finance - how many loans they have, income sources etc etc).

The AI gets this information for free, and all removing the ledger would do is require me to do a lot of math that I can't be bothered to do on the fly nor would be interesting to do on the fly. You can guess the strength of an enemy nation within reasonable amounts of accuracy by doing a fair amount of calculation based on their development totals, idea groups taken, and their recent war history.

 

[Sir Aidence]

Will it be possible to add disasters based off of institutions?

 

[nNagato]

The idea of it is good, but poor execution. Though I do know that this is still early stages and balancing should happen.

Anyway, my point is that people here are mostly arguing about how the institutes are so Eurocentric and EU OP and its wrong, but the others argue that EU4 is meant to be like that and more historical accuracy or whatever.

EU4 is a "Simulation game", but not a "Repeat the history game". The game play should be affected by the situation in the world from start date but that's it. The player should have total freedom and potential to bring any nation into glory that they did not in real life. If institutes can't fire in Asia because "history", Renaissance only happened in Europe then why are you making some other ridiculous things able to happen? Like AI Spain wrecked by AI France? Human Byzantium killed entirety of Kebeb when most of the EU4 is "Rise of the Ottomans"?, half of the world actually westernized when they didn't in real life?. Not to mention tons of achievements that encourage ahistoric gameplays. If institutes can't fire in Asia because of "historical accuracy", then make all other possibilities almost impossible. Yes I get the with colonial play you can easily get them to spread to you, but I just really dislike the idea that you must get them from Europe but can't generate them yourselves.

The thing is, if someone wanted to play let say Ming, which was technologically advance in start date, but only declined because of poor ruling. If the player wanted to promote innovation and technological advance "themselves", without "westernizing", which is very possible in real life (just didn't happen) and more possible than uniting the HRE or forming the Roman Empire, which is allowed in the game, then why are institutes that focus on inner technological development only allowed to be fired in EU? and even like protestant and reformed? Like religion related? I really don't get this.

The firing of institutes should not be based on geographical and religious requirements, but some other stats that PDX can add and really make the whole technological advancement dynamic. For example Renaissance institution could fire in a nation with highest monthly monarch point gained (So a combination of both the ruler and advisors as the development of a country is not based on the ruler himself) and have no tech penalty so far. There can also be like a investment for research bar which allows you to fund gold/monarch points which scales with your total development, and will increase the speed of getting institutes spread to you or are requirements for institutes to fire in your country. I personally quite like the trade one

All institutes should be able to fire in any nations, sure it should be more difficult in Asia but they should not be limited to only be able to get institutions spread to them. PDX can make the AI's behaviour less likely, or pretty much very very unlikely to pursue technology advancement in Asia and ROTW, but it should always be a possibility for the player.

 

[hajutze]

Institutions, if the player doesn't intervene should probably fire mostly in Europe, but the player should be able to influence their starting point without the need to conquer Italy as China (erm Ming) =/.

 

[tobias.mb]

Institutions, if the player doesn't intervene should probably fire mostly in Europe, but the player should be able to influence their starting point without the need to conquer Italy as China (erm Ming) =/.

Speaking of Ming: how do they get rid of their celestial empire government, if westernisation is no longer a thing?

 

[JakeCourtney]

I've just signed in to paradox forum because I cannot believe what devs are doing to people who bought vanilla version... When I bought (I said BOUGHT, not rented) EUIV I never suspected that developers weren't going to let me play it in peace... because that's the fucking reality, you keep on updating and imposing to all of us to erase our saved games and to uninstall then install and wait for updated mods again and again. Can you believe that I've never been able to finish a single game???!!!! Not a single one, I promise.... Because every time you change the rules of this game with your constant updates, our saved games become unestable and buggy and all of our installed mods go shit. Is this how you support modder community? It's been so fucking horrendous this experience to me that I had to explode to tell you. I'm ffed up with you, devs. I hate you. You change things without asking nor considering what players think about those. I preferred previous versions of EUIV. COULD YOU PLEASE STOP IMPOSING CHANGES?.... PLEASE STOP THIS! STOP IT!!, STOP IT!!!, STOOOP IIIIT!!!!!!!!

It's called git gud and disable your Steam automatic update. So easy.

 

[Nagassh]

Sounds like a pretty huge change. Hope it works out well.

I've just signed in to paradox forum because I cannot believe what devs are doing to people who bought vanilla version... When I bought (I said BOUGHT, not rented) EUIV I never suspected that developers weren't going to let me play it in peace... because that's the fucking reality, you keep on updating and imposing to all of us to erase our saved games and to uninstall then install and wait for updated mods again and again. Can you believe that I've never been able to finish a single game???!!!! Not a single one, I promise.... Because every time you change the rules of this game with your constant updates, our saved games become unestable and buggy and all of our installed mods go shit. Is this how you support modder community? It's been so fucking horrendous this experience to me that I had to explode to tell you. I'm ffed up with you, devs. I hate you. You change things without asking nor considering what players think about those. I preferred previous versions of EUIV. COULD YOU PLEASE STOP IMPOSING CHANGES?.... PLEASE STOP THIS! STOP IT!!, STOP IT!!!, STOOOP IIIIT!!!!!!!!

All you have to do is tell steam to load an older version. Stop getting mad at the developers for developing their game because you're too lazy to read up on how to do things.
I just started playing EU4 again a week ago after a pretty long break, the first thing I did was finish a Granada game from before I went on my break, I assure you Mare Nostrum hadn't "erased my saved game".

 

[Wagonlitz]

It's called git gud and disable your Steam automatic update. So easy.

That actually is a common misunderstanding. All disabling automatic updates on steam does is that it won't update until you launch the game. It will still update before you can play it. What he needs to do is let it update and then roll back to a previous patch through the beta tab.

 

[Anthedon]

Sounds very interesting. I'm all for changes that make ROTW countries more palatable (if that indeed happens).