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EU4 - Development Diary - 4th of June 2019

Hello again! In previous weeks we’ve shown you revamped maps of Italy and German and the revitalized political setups in these regions. Today will be no different as we delve into the land of cheese, wine, and élan!

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The most striking thing you’ll notice about this new setup is the return of the French “vassal swarm”. The Duchies of Orleans, Bourbonnais, Auvergne, Armagnac, and Foix will be returning to the game alongside their glorious but rarely-seen Hundred Years War unit models. But how will you balance this, I preemptively hear you asking? Won’t France need extra diplomatic relations to cope with this? Won’t France be horrendously overpowered in the early game? Fear not, for we have answers and solutions - which I am not going to reveal today.

So, what's up with balkanized France? The reality is that in 1444, the Kingdom of France was quite decentralized. The Hundred Years War had forced the King to enact new taxes to finance his troops which led to several revolts and conspiracies from its nobility. That conflict continued for most of the second half of the 15th century. Historically the crown prevailed and managed to bring France toward centralization and absolutism, but in EU4 it won't be a given. Hence we decided to make that part of the French gameplay by representing the strongest Dukes and Counts as vassals in 1444.
  • Orléans was the strongest of them and often the leader of the resistance against the Crown. The head of the House of Orléans in 1444 was Charles the First, a cousin of the King who spent 25 years in English captivity. His son Louis would historically become King of France later on following the extinction of the main Valois branch.
  • The Duchy of Bourbon (or Bourbonnais) is held by Jean II, an up and coming noble that illustrated himself in combat the same year our game starts. Historically, he sided with the King's party, but changed side later on after losing a prestigious office.
  • Armagnac is in a tight spot. The result of CK2-style border gore, his possessions are spread across central and southern France. Its leader, Jean IV, recently took part in a failed revolt against the King and is kept on a tight leash.
  • Foix is held by Count Gaston IV, also General Lieutenant of the French Armies of Gascony and Guyenne.

You’ll also notice that France and its subjects (nominal and otherwise) have a handful of additional provinces. I mentioned in a previous dev diary a desire to include Foix, Carcassonne, Toulon, and La Marche. All of these have made it in to this iteration of the map. Toulon felt especially valuable due to its status as a major base of naval operations for France later in the timeframe, and as you’ll see in an upcoming dev diary the establishment of this great arsenal is an important part of more than one new mission tree. We also found room for Forez, which allows us to represent the divide between the crown and Bourbon territories. Blois beefs up the Duchy of Orleans, the most powerful of the French vassal states and often a thorn in the side of the French kings.

To better represent the divide between western (Ducal Burgundy) and eastern (Free HRE Country Burgundy), we added the province of Salins and its large salt mine. This lead us to split Burgundy in two, but instead of following the Imperial divide we elected instead to make two balanced states with one holding land on both sides, making any division an imperfect choice that is sure to spark more conflict in the future.

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Another addition to the political setup is the city-state of Geneva, here represented in 1444 as a vassal of Savoy. Geneva was subject to Savoy until 1524, and up to that point had a troubled relationship with its overlord. The House of Savoy repeatedly attempted to increase their control over the city to little avail except to alienate its citizens and foster a desire for independence. Local authorities sought to ally with the Swiss cantons, and the city would eventually join the Swiss Confederacy. In addition, the old province of Savoy has been split between Anessi and Ciamber.

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Moving further away from France, we’ve also made some changes to the Low Countries. I’ve spoken before regarding our concerns about adding provinces to this region. We want it to retain the feeling of being a highly developed and densely populated region, and adding new provinces would force us to split development to the point that it might lose that feeling. We have however managed to squeeze in two additional provinces: ‘s-Hertogenbosch has been cut off from Breda, and Rysel adds a province to Flanders. We’ve also revised the Utrecht-Frisia border to reflect historical divisions of the Dutch provinces. Speaking of Frisia, we have at long last added Frisian culture to the game. You’ll find Frisians inhabiting the provinces of Friesland, Groningen, and Ostfriesland. We’ve also redrawn the area map, doing away with the “Netherlands” area and adding a distinction between North and South Brabant.

Last week I promised a look at the Balkans alongside France, but we’ve decided instead to dedicate an entire dev diary to this topic. Expect to see that in a couple of weeks, as our next dev diary will cover some of the new mission trees in the French and Dutch region. Until then, let us know what you think of the new map setup as well as which mission trees you want to see next week.
 
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The developers care about balance again, now? Does that mean you'll finally be scrapping the capital movement restriction and/or trade company eligibility that gimps any start outside of the European continent?

If we could choose how any province can be administered, that would be ideal. Letting us pick whether a province is treated as a regular province, or whether it's administered as a TC or CN would be really nice. TCs need rebalancing anyway, so that would be fun.
 
I like all the improvements, but why did you change the color of Orlean to ugly? :( I understand that another red country wouldn't be viable, but "meatloaf" is maybe not the best alternative color.
 
Aw, no love for my hometown of Weert? I had not many hopes because of the statement that no smaller new provinces would be added, but now that I see 's-Hertogenbosch has been added, I wonder why not add Weert in stead?

The lands of Weert were in control of the Van Horne family, a nobel family in the Low Countries from 1242 to 1568. They were heavily involved in the politics of the area during the EU4 timeframe. Participating in important events like the succession wars after the Burgundian inheritance, fighting over the seat of the arch-bishopric of Liege, feuding with the Von der Mark family of Cleves, being part of the reformation and Beeldenstorm, up to the execution of the last Van Horne in 1568 for conspiring against his emperor, Philip II von Habsburg of Spain. I say conspiring, Philips van Horne was one third of the leadership of the League against Granvelle, which eventually led to Willem van Oranje (another third of the leadership) to fight a war of independence against the Spanish Empire leading to the formation of the Netherlands. All in all, enough to work with to make them an interesting tag in the world of EU4, I'd say.

With lands stretching from Eindhoven to the Meuse river, it would be small, but big enough to be a valid province (considering other new additions especially). Part of the HRE, as a free prince in the empire, with many bigger neighbours, it would be a challenge, but definitely possible to change history and become "Vader des Vaderlands" with a Van Horne. And it would also solve the mess that is currently proposed for the region surrounding Limburg (being part of North Brabant is borderline insulting :p).
 
I really like cultural flourishment in game, can't you guys just stop restriction of cultures having minimum 3 provinces?
Caucasia is one comes to my mind where different number of cultures should be added.
As we see in couple of diaries there are still different cultures left out even in Europe. (Ashkenazi and Sephardic are still what I seek)
 
@neondt Having been someone that suggested to you to improve France, I should give my opinions on this rework.

So first off this is a really nice change, you were able to add most of what I suggested and I have to thank you for that. You kept faithful to my suggestions, even in adding Forez and Blois which I thought would be too small to make it in. I also didn't expect you to go full on with the bordergore here, you even added Angoumois as an Orleanais exclave which is a nice detail.

Though, now that Burgundy is split into 2 areas, you could split Charolais and that'd leave you with 4 provinces in an area which isn't too much to ask. It's a shame you left out Albret since it did have an interesting history, for example its involvement in the Mad War, and the fact that its rulers went on to rule Navarre as well, though I understand you're not keen on adding too many OPMs.
 
@neondt Having been someone that suggested to you to improve France, I should give my opinions on this rework.

So first off this is a really nice change, you were able to add most of what I suggested and I have to thank you for that. You kept faithful to my suggestions, even in adding Forez and Blois which I thought would be too small to make it in. I also didn't expect you to go full on with the bordergore here, you even added Angoumois as an Orleanais exclave which is a nice detail.

Though, now that Burgundy is split into 2 areas, you could split Charolais and that'd leave you with 4 provinces in an area which isn't too much to ask. It's a shame you left out Albret since it did have an interesting history, for example its involvement in the Mad War, and the fact that its rulers went on to rule Navarre as well, though I understand you're not keen on adding too many OPMs.
Wouldn't Albret also own Limosuin in this time period making it a 2 province minor? In saying that, I'm not sure splitting England up is a good idea, but that Aquitaine province does look a bit huge.
 
@neondt could you please change the name Rysel to Rijsel, and the name of Den Haag into either 's-Gravenhage or Holland?
The capital provinces of Vlaanderen, Gelre en Brabant are still named after their county/duchy.
 
Also, on the topic of Savoy, it may interest you to know that the Duchy starts Italian, but Annecy and Chambéry start as French, and there will be an easy way for the Savoyards to become French if they so please (more on that later ;) )
What? French savoy?
PURE HERESY!
BURN THE HERETIC PURGE THE UNCLEAN (french).

Jokes aside, have you already done mission tree and national ideas for Montferrat? Because if not I’m trying to find info on the topic to write suggestions for you.
 
@neondt could you please change the name Rysel to Rijsel, and the name of Den Haag into either 's-Gravenhage or Holland?
The capital provinces of Vlaanderen, Gelre en Brabant are still named after their county/duchy.
I'd probalby keep the more informal terms and Rysel seems to have been influenced by West-Flemish, which seems appropriate.
Vlaanderen should probably change, Gelre would be hard to change, cause it still encompasses much of Geldren today. Brabant should definitely be Brussel.
 
@neondt @Caligula Caesar
Some suggestions from a map modder:

1. Why did you give Angoumois to Orleans? Under my understanding, it was controlled by the brother of the Duke of Orleans and, the way I see it, should definitely be a separate tag.
2. I see you did not add Albret, which was on your previous list. It is a pity, if you deem it too insignificant, perhaps you could add Dax instead. It would allow you to lessen the extent of Basque culture in that area and make it a bit more accurate.
3. The shape of Perigord and Quercy remains inaccurate. Perhaps if you were to add the county Agenais, you would be able to bring more detail to the area.
4. The province of Vivarais is a quite large one, while historical Vivarais was way smaller. Perhaps you could add Gevaudan and split the rather large area of Languedoc into two parts?
5. Champagne is an important economical region for France in this age. I think it would not be a bad thing to split Reims and add a province of Chalons in order to make it more significant development-wise.
6. Even if you intend to nerf the vassal swarm, it seems that England is about to be left almost completely hopeless in face of the French armies. We know that England itself is outside of the scope of this expansion, but perhaps you could help them out a bit by splitting Caen. The new province could be Lisieux or Bayeux. There are many choices to choose from in the area.
7. Speaking of Normandy, how about the Channel Islands? :p
8. Any chance for adding more detail for Maine and Anjou? No new provinces are needed here, but they could use a more precise borders, especially Anjou.
9. Splitting Berry into Bourges and Chateauroux would be awesome.
10. It would be amazing to see Vermandois/Peronne back, under Burgundian control.

Now, I know what you are almost certainly going to say, it is late for such changes. I would at any case be happy to receive a response to these suggestions, and I wonder if it is not too late for giving you some suggestions on the Balkans. No offense, but I fear there may be some wild inaccuracies there even after this dlc lands and would like to help prevent that. I was for example saddened to see the latest Poland map, as, even though the provinces you added were good in theory, they look very unlike their historical counterparts, as if they were made in a great hurry. I could send you a PM if you so wish, filled with suggestions on the Balkans for example.

EDIT: Made some more suggestions
 
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The most striking thing you’ll notice about this new setup is the return of the French “vassal swarm”.
And there was much rejoicing. But when you're on the subject of adding vassals in france perhaps Angevin France could become a PU of Englands?
Also now Verdun is on the map
We'll bleed the french dry.
 
Wouldn't Albret also own Limosuin in this time period making it a 2 province minor? In saying that, I'm not sure splitting England up is a good idea, but that Aquitaine province does look a bit huge.

usually I'm not really fond of these splits, because the dev make a choice to keep the game balance and not favour some parts of the world. Aquitaine specifically got thriving during the time period though, so it would seem to work out I think. There's all the political, economic and balance motivation for that split, it's not just for the sake of more provinces.
 
Prediction: Vassals which you have cores on do not use a relation slot (marches would) OR vassals no longer use relation slots coupled with a nerf to total relation slots + vassals are a little bit more volatile/needy

If this is the direction you're going I like it. Vassal swarms are fun but the changes need to be vast. Right now we can bully vassals too easily. We steal their trade with a click and then pay off debt to make them happy. Putting an emphasis on managing vassal relationships as we expand our empire sounds like fun! Fix the way they handle rebels though. They are awful at it.
 
I'd probalby keep the more informal terms and Rysel seems to have been influenced by West-Flemish, which seems appropriate.
Vlaanderen should probably change, Gelre would be hard to change, cause it still encompasses much of Geldren today. Brabant should definitely be Brussel.

Rysel is the original name of the city we flemish people spoke for centuries, even to this day. Rijssel is a modern standardised version and contains Brabantic influences. And has largely succeeded in replacing the original name, but the old spelling 'Ryssel' stayed strong and remains in use by speakers of the West-Flemish dialect which number around 1,1 million people in both France and Belgium. We Flemings are known to be stubborn for not giving up our dialect. and what better than to say this in my local tongue:

Rysel is olvèrre altyd Rysel geweist! Je go nog mien stoake uuttrekke'n, dat de uutspraak nie juust is. moa tot dien tit goan ik nog alszan Rysel zegg'n!
 
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I like this map more.
Saved it from prevoius DD about France.
Please consider THIS map.
Yes, this map has a lot of good in it:
- French Flanders actually represented from Lille to Dunkirk. This was a thing from 1659 until the revolution, so half the game timeframe. In today's DD map, Lille is there, but Dunkirk stays in Flanders.
- Aquitaine and Labourd making way for Albret. Albret could actually be another vassal added to the French list, and they would compete with Armagnac. If fiefs/appenages are able to fight each other, this would be a great historical feud to implement.
- Reims split out in two (Laon/Reims). The province really looks too big even as of now.

But the rest is pretty great. A small nitpick again about Savoy. I would prefer a division with the names Bresse/Savoy instead of Annecy/Chambery, but it isn't that important. :)

Map_France_1477-fr_sovereign_B%C3%A9arn.svg


This is a relevant map from the French vassals.
Armagnac, Orléans, Bourbon, Auvergne, Provence and Foix are more or lesse where they're supposed to be. Albret is the only one missing and would own a province split out from aquitaine as well as the Limousin province in the current draft (a merger of Limoges and Turenne). I'd argue this would be a welcomed and easy enough addition. :)
 
Annecy should be Bourg-en-Bresse, though. Annecy is within the Chambery province.