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EU4 - Development Diary - 4th of June 2019

Hello again! In previous weeks we’ve shown you revamped maps of Italy and German and the revitalized political setups in these regions. Today will be no different as we delve into the land of cheese, wine, and élan!

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The most striking thing you’ll notice about this new setup is the return of the French “vassal swarm”. The Duchies of Orleans, Bourbonnais, Auvergne, Armagnac, and Foix will be returning to the game alongside their glorious but rarely-seen Hundred Years War unit models. But how will you balance this, I preemptively hear you asking? Won’t France need extra diplomatic relations to cope with this? Won’t France be horrendously overpowered in the early game? Fear not, for we have answers and solutions - which I am not going to reveal today.

So, what's up with balkanized France? The reality is that in 1444, the Kingdom of France was quite decentralized. The Hundred Years War had forced the King to enact new taxes to finance his troops which led to several revolts and conspiracies from its nobility. That conflict continued for most of the second half of the 15th century. Historically the crown prevailed and managed to bring France toward centralization and absolutism, but in EU4 it won't be a given. Hence we decided to make that part of the French gameplay by representing the strongest Dukes and Counts as vassals in 1444.
  • Orléans was the strongest of them and often the leader of the resistance against the Crown. The head of the House of Orléans in 1444 was Charles the First, a cousin of the King who spent 25 years in English captivity. His son Louis would historically become King of France later on following the extinction of the main Valois branch.
  • The Duchy of Bourbon (or Bourbonnais) is held by Jean II, an up and coming noble that illustrated himself in combat the same year our game starts. Historically, he sided with the King's party, but changed side later on after losing a prestigious office.
  • Armagnac is in a tight spot. The result of CK2-style border gore, his possessions are spread across central and southern France. Its leader, Jean IV, recently took part in a failed revolt against the King and is kept on a tight leash.
  • Foix is held by Count Gaston IV, also General Lieutenant of the French Armies of Gascony and Guyenne.

You’ll also notice that France and its subjects (nominal and otherwise) have a handful of additional provinces. I mentioned in a previous dev diary a desire to include Foix, Carcassonne, Toulon, and La Marche. All of these have made it in to this iteration of the map. Toulon felt especially valuable due to its status as a major base of naval operations for France later in the timeframe, and as you’ll see in an upcoming dev diary the establishment of this great arsenal is an important part of more than one new mission tree. We also found room for Forez, which allows us to represent the divide between the crown and Bourbon territories. Blois beefs up the Duchy of Orleans, the most powerful of the French vassal states and often a thorn in the side of the French kings.

To better represent the divide between western (Ducal Burgundy) and eastern (Free HRE Country Burgundy), we added the province of Salins and its large salt mine. This lead us to split Burgundy in two, but instead of following the Imperial divide we elected instead to make two balanced states with one holding land on both sides, making any division an imperfect choice that is sure to spark more conflict in the future.

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Another addition to the political setup is the city-state of Geneva, here represented in 1444 as a vassal of Savoy. Geneva was subject to Savoy until 1524, and up to that point had a troubled relationship with its overlord. The House of Savoy repeatedly attempted to increase their control over the city to little avail except to alienate its citizens and foster a desire for independence. Local authorities sought to ally with the Swiss cantons, and the city would eventually join the Swiss Confederacy. In addition, the old province of Savoy has been split between Anessi and Ciamber.

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Moving further away from France, we’ve also made some changes to the Low Countries. I’ve spoken before regarding our concerns about adding provinces to this region. We want it to retain the feeling of being a highly developed and densely populated region, and adding new provinces would force us to split development to the point that it might lose that feeling. We have however managed to squeeze in two additional provinces: ‘s-Hertogenbosch has been cut off from Breda, and Rysel adds a province to Flanders. We’ve also revised the Utrecht-Frisia border to reflect historical divisions of the Dutch provinces. Speaking of Frisia, we have at long last added Frisian culture to the game. You’ll find Frisians inhabiting the provinces of Friesland, Groningen, and Ostfriesland. We’ve also redrawn the area map, doing away with the “Netherlands” area and adding a distinction between North and South Brabant.

Last week I promised a look at the Balkans alongside France, but we’ve decided instead to dedicate an entire dev diary to this topic. Expect to see that in a couple of weeks, as our next dev diary will cover some of the new mission trees in the French and Dutch region. Until then, let us know what you think of the new map setup as well as which mission trees you want to see next week.
 
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Dear developers,

I just wanted to note that I hope France's situation is not similar to Morocco's split up. You wait 10 years, you improve relations and you annex them because you have cores all over them. Literally no challenge at all and no valuable contribution to the game. It's important to consider how much of a challenge you are actually giving players by splitting up countries. Are you sure you're not making France stronger?

Secondly I have seen a lot of feedback on the map changes in this dev diary and I noticed that yes there is still names and province positions that could be fixed. I hope you could consider them and that this map isn't the final version of what you will be delivering. Take as much time as you can and don't rush please...

Good day.
 
Great to see some feudality back!

However, after speaking with a friend for Savoy, we have a few concerns.
First, Anessi (or Annecy in French, the Dukes of Savoy at that time were Francophone, according to him who works on XIVth & XVth century's Savoy) isn't where Annecy lies in reality, which would be inside "Ciamber", while Annecy here is more Bourg-en-Bresse.
Second, by Ciamber, do you mean Chambéry? In Italian it's Ciamberi, but you miss the "i" right now.
I suspect Savoy being Italian is entirely for gameplay reasons of uniting Italy. Their dynasty is 'di Savoia' instead of 'de Savoie' too.

That said, I think it would be a lot better for Savoy to Italianise when it becomes Sardinia-Piedmont.
 
Well, I think the solutions teased in the DD should (will?) be that those vassals are under another subject type and not the regular vassal one: fiefs or appanages were mentionned in the suggestion sub-forum.
It would be great if such a new type would include new interactions and possibilities like:
- ability to declare war on other fiefs/appanages, and ability for the overlord to take sides and/or stop such wars (for a LD price)
- ability to have a somewhat independant foreign policy, like royal marriages (and thus access to PUs).
Historically, the Duke Charles of Orléans (father of the future Louis XII of France) became the titular Duke of Milan (opposed to Sforza) due to his mother being Valentina Visconti, the daugther of the Duke of Milan Gian Galeazzo Visconti. This could be a way for fiefs/appenages to seek independance of France: Land a prestigious duchy/county as a PU to expand the powerbase, then seek independence. This is I think actually what happened to Burgundy: appenage of France > get the county of Flanders via a PU > expand outside of France > become factually independent from France. There are actually many examples of this:
-> Burgundy getting the county of Flanders
-> Orléans claiming the duchy of Milan
-> Foix getting the Kingdom of Navarre
-> Bourbon getting the Kingdom of Navarre (I sense a theme here)​
- ability for the overlord to help the fiefs/appanages to act on those claims, with the idea that the lands gained might integrate the crown in the future.

Ideally, those fiefs/appenages wouldn't cost a diplo slot, with the trade-offs being that they couldn't be inherited as regular vassals, but only if the main dynasty would die off, or if the vassals somehow would align with ennemies/rivals of France (based on what happened for Bourbon).
I love your ideas. We have so long awaited new content as the one your propose. Mais je n'y crois pas une seconde :/
 
First of all, could a screenshit of the states in the Dutch area be posted?

Secondly, I find it somewhat sad that besides Frisian there isn't a further revamp of the culture in the Lowlands area. I had a bit of a discussion about it in the 7th of May DD, but what it comes donw to is that the lands east of the IJssel should be the neighbouring German culture and that the current Flemish culture is based on the modern concept of Flanders. Perhaps split it into Flemish and Brabantian, especially with the new provinces. And maybe rename Dutch to Hollandic of such distinctions were to be made.

Thirdly, I can't help the borders are just generally, off. The Betuwe isn't represented. Groningen controlls too much Drenthe and Opper Gelre for some reason controlls medieval Limburg. And the divsion of the state of Brabant just seems to hint at a formable that doesn't have any place in EU4.

And also speaking of the Flemish culture, I'm currently doing a Brabant>Netherlands campaign and I can't help but notice that because my primary culture is Flemish, I get German localisation. I am empire rank and thus my government (Dutch Republic) is a Federal Republic. I am lead by a Grand Syndic and colonies get German names. Maybe take a look at this
 
I suspect Savoy being Italian is entirely for gameplay reasons of uniting Italy. Their dynasty is 'di Savoia' instead of 'de Savoie' too.

That said, I think it would be a lot better for Savoy to Italianise when it becomes Sardinia-Piedmont.
I also hope that Savoy will get a special treatment, and get astrategic choice to either!
- "Italianise", meaning going for Sardinia-Piedmont, conquest in Liguria, changing the capital tu Turin/Torino -> the historical choice
- "Occitanise", meaning keeping their interest in southern France and Romandy, with a goal to recreate the Kingdom of Arles (of which Savoy was a main component, alongside Provence, Dauphiné and Transjurania/Romandy) -> this would be a nice alternative choice.

Kingdom of Arles/Arelate as another formable (on the same relevance level as the stem-duchies in Germany that where added in previous DD) for those tags (Provence, Savoy, Dauphiné) would also be a great addition.
 
Second, by Ciamber, do you mean Chambéry? In Italian it's Ciamberi, but you miss the "i" right now.

Indeed, I don't know how that "i" went missing, it definitely was there when I added that name, and it is now back.

Also, on the topic of Savoy, it may interest you to know that the Duchy starts Italian, but Annecy and Chambéry start as French, and there will be an easy way for the Savoyards to become French if they so please (more on that later ;) ).
 
Given that you made Geneva an opm (and that you mentioned that are going to split the confederates in at least two), any chance you add some small scope mechanic for the swiss confederation? Like some dedicated option to diplomatically annex nearby republic opm (some sort of join the confederation?) or like grant independence for vassals opm like Geneva that gives CB should try overlord try to integrate or viceversa makes impossible to integrate for overlord and so gives the overlord a CB instead?

The idea is to give more of a "join" flavor rather than "conquer" flavor to the early swiss territorial growth (unless ofc it's made at the expenses of large states like Milan.
 
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Many kingdoms and states were quite decentralized in 1444, why only France needs a different representation in the game?
Year is 1444, whole Europe is occupied by various small states. Well, not entirely… One huge blob of indomitable Lithuanians still holds out against the decentralization.
 
Indeed, I don't know how that "i" went missing, it definitely was there when I added that name, and it is now back.

Also, on the topic of Savoy, it may interest you to know that the Duchy starts Italian, but Annecy and Chambéry start as French, and there will be an easy way for the Savoyards to become French if they so please (more on that later ;) ).

I will wait to see what the details of this are, but I don't really understand it when Savoy when from being a French duchy to an Italian one in the mid-16th century when Emmanuel Philibert moved the capital to Turin. Is it something to do with wanting Savoy to leave the Empire along with the Italian states?
 
Could you just give Valais to Switzerland?
It would make Savoie's new border less horrible and more accurate.
Savoie should keep it's core, to show that the province was divided between Savoie and Sion.
 
I remember when all of Switzerland was just two provinces. Now all the provinces that would eventually join Switzerland number 10.
 
Could you just give Valais to Switzerland?
It would make Savoie's new border less horrible and more accurate.
Savoie should keep it's core, to show that the province was divided between Savoie and Sion.
I disagree with that.
Switzerland owing Valais is as accurate as Savoy owing it, which is to say, both are inaccurate. Ideally Valais should be divided in Lower Valais, owned by Savoy, and Upper Valais, owned by the Bishopric of Sion, allied/aligned with Switzerland (like the Three Leagues in Graubünden, or Geneva once it's not a vassal of Savoy).

As long as Valais isn't divided, then both options are valid (as in "invalid") either owned by Savoy or Switzerland.

Indeed, I don't know how that "i" went missing, it definitely was there when I added that name, and it is now back.

Also, on the topic of Savoy, it may interest you to know that the Duchy starts Italian, but Annecy and Chambéry start as French, and there will be an easy way for the Savoyards to become French if they so please (more on that later ;) ).
I don't understand this. The Duchy should start French and get a chance to become Italian (move capital to Turin, go for Sardinia-Piedmont,...), not the other way around. :(

Annecy/Chambery starting as French is a good improvement. I'm hoping for an Arpitan culture there (or Provençal), to have it distinct from Occitanian which is more for Toulouse/Languedoc.

At this point wouldn't it be better to have a separate low countries culture group instead of one enormous Germanic group?
I agree with this. Low countries culture group (Dutch group?) with Flemish, Brabantian, Hollandic, Frisian, Limburgish (?) would be welcomed.
 
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Great changes to France! Yet one thing is still missing: The game is obviously lacking a mission tree and achievement for the greatest European country of all: Luxembourg! ;)
Even Goethe would grow pale in face of the almost tragedy that EU4 starts 3 years after Luxembourg was sold to the tyrannical (exaggeration? maybe) overlord of Burgundy. And then it was passed to the Habsbourgs. And then France took it. And then the Habsbourgs again. And France again... you get it. So technically, Luxembourg is part of every updated region of the upcoming DLC, as it was ruled over by almost any European major. Who still remembers the luxembourgish Emperors of the HRE that came before?

So there's only one achievement that would properly summarize the ambitions of that little country:

"Make the duchy grand again"
As Luxembourg, become independent, own Paris and Vienna and become emperor of the HRE.

The revenge of the little country will be swift!

Edit: I came up with a better name.
 
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