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EU4 - Development Diary - 4th of June 2019

Hello again! In previous weeks we’ve shown you revamped maps of Italy and German and the revitalized political setups in these regions. Today will be no different as we delve into the land of cheese, wine, and élan!

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The most striking thing you’ll notice about this new setup is the return of the French “vassal swarm”. The Duchies of Orleans, Bourbonnais, Auvergne, Armagnac, and Foix will be returning to the game alongside their glorious but rarely-seen Hundred Years War unit models. But how will you balance this, I preemptively hear you asking? Won’t France need extra diplomatic relations to cope with this? Won’t France be horrendously overpowered in the early game? Fear not, for we have answers and solutions - which I am not going to reveal today.

So, what's up with balkanized France? The reality is that in 1444, the Kingdom of France was quite decentralized. The Hundred Years War had forced the King to enact new taxes to finance his troops which led to several revolts and conspiracies from its nobility. That conflict continued for most of the second half of the 15th century. Historically the crown prevailed and managed to bring France toward centralization and absolutism, but in EU4 it won't be a given. Hence we decided to make that part of the French gameplay by representing the strongest Dukes and Counts as vassals in 1444.
  • Orléans was the strongest of them and often the leader of the resistance against the Crown. The head of the House of Orléans in 1444 was Charles the First, a cousin of the King who spent 25 years in English captivity. His son Louis would historically become King of France later on following the extinction of the main Valois branch.
  • The Duchy of Bourbon (or Bourbonnais) is held by Jean II, an up and coming noble that illustrated himself in combat the same year our game starts. Historically, he sided with the King's party, but changed side later on after losing a prestigious office.
  • Armagnac is in a tight spot. The result of CK2-style border gore, his possessions are spread across central and southern France. Its leader, Jean IV, recently took part in a failed revolt against the King and is kept on a tight leash.
  • Foix is held by Count Gaston IV, also General Lieutenant of the French Armies of Gascony and Guyenne.

You’ll also notice that France and its subjects (nominal and otherwise) have a handful of additional provinces. I mentioned in a previous dev diary a desire to include Foix, Carcassonne, Toulon, and La Marche. All of these have made it in to this iteration of the map. Toulon felt especially valuable due to its status as a major base of naval operations for France later in the timeframe, and as you’ll see in an upcoming dev diary the establishment of this great arsenal is an important part of more than one new mission tree. We also found room for Forez, which allows us to represent the divide between the crown and Bourbon territories. Blois beefs up the Duchy of Orleans, the most powerful of the French vassal states and often a thorn in the side of the French kings.

To better represent the divide between western (Ducal Burgundy) and eastern (Free HRE Country Burgundy), we added the province of Salins and its large salt mine. This lead us to split Burgundy in two, but instead of following the Imperial divide we elected instead to make two balanced states with one holding land on both sides, making any division an imperfect choice that is sure to spark more conflict in the future.

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Another addition to the political setup is the city-state of Geneva, here represented in 1444 as a vassal of Savoy. Geneva was subject to Savoy until 1524, and up to that point had a troubled relationship with its overlord. The House of Savoy repeatedly attempted to increase their control over the city to little avail except to alienate its citizens and foster a desire for independence. Local authorities sought to ally with the Swiss cantons, and the city would eventually join the Swiss Confederacy. In addition, the old province of Savoy has been split between Anessi and Ciamber.

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Moving further away from France, we’ve also made some changes to the Low Countries. I’ve spoken before regarding our concerns about adding provinces to this region. We want it to retain the feeling of being a highly developed and densely populated region, and adding new provinces would force us to split development to the point that it might lose that feeling. We have however managed to squeeze in two additional provinces: ‘s-Hertogenbosch has been cut off from Breda, and Rysel adds a province to Flanders. We’ve also revised the Utrecht-Frisia border to reflect historical divisions of the Dutch provinces. Speaking of Frisia, we have at long last added Frisian culture to the game. You’ll find Frisians inhabiting the provinces of Friesland, Groningen, and Ostfriesland. We’ve also redrawn the area map, doing away with the “Netherlands” area and adding a distinction between North and South Brabant.

Last week I promised a look at the Balkans alongside France, but we’ve decided instead to dedicate an entire dev diary to this topic. Expect to see that in a couple of weeks, as our next dev diary will cover some of the new mission trees in the French and Dutch region. Until then, let us know what you think of the new map setup as well as which mission trees you want to see next week.
 
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@MatRopert will French Ideas be getting looked at?
I think it may be a bit better for both historical representation and balance if the 20% French “Elán!” Was changed to “French Chivalry” - 15% morale and 10% cavalry combat ability. Or maybe even +1 cavalry shock, along the same lines as the Spanish artillery modifier?
France was always famous for its cavalry and it’s strange that they have nothing in-game to show for it.
This please.
I have several issue's with France's "Elan!".
It's not that France doesn't deserve strong military ideas, it's just that "Elan!" doesn't seem a very professional or well researched one.

For starters, the name, Ideas should be references to actual historical features that justify the idea, "Elan!" seems like a generic buff one would give a country they want to buff but don't have a reason to. Like giving "Hurra!" to Russia, "Santiago!" to Spain, "Geronimo!" to the U.S or "Banzai!" to Japan... feels arbitrary.
Second, a 20% morale buff is also very generic, why a 20% morale buff? Was France renowned for their unbending resolve? Were French soldiers renowned to always fight to the last man? I'm not saying France had poor morale, but there are so many flavourful buffs one could justifiably give France (For example, they had arguably the best Medieval heavy cavalry, and Napoleon made extensive use of mobile artillery in warfare) other than a flavourless Morale buff... it seems just a waste.
My other complaint is the timing, France gets it way too soon. Usually the second idea is unlocked by ~1500, France should only get a military edge over Spain in the mid 1600's.
 
Speaking of military ideas, I've been thinking about the military balance of power in western Europe, considering the relative performance of the following nations in the wars between themselves and in what i percieved them to excel at, I also tried to keep my suggestions conservative (with one exception who needs a big changes) and open.

GB seems too powerful on the sea in the early-mid game, and too weak on the land in the late game.

The Netherlands could use a little bit more strength on the land by the mid-game to portray their defiance against Spain on land.
Not sure about how good they really are on the sea, since although their naval ideas are meh, they do get more bonuses from Flagships and Government reforms, not sure if it is enough to represent one of the major naval powers of the world though.

Spain is a bit too good on land, but could get their 5% Discipline a bit earlier, since they peaked their military power in the mid-early game, around the late 1500's and yet it's currently their last idea.
On the sea Spain is... alright, but maybe they could get a slight buff since they did compete with Brittain untill the XIX century.
Castille should probably have the 15% morale in the traditions removed (Castille starting with such a strong morale tradition after the complete disaster that was their last war against Portugal, who has got no military ideas whatsoever, is beyond ironic) and instead changed into a first idea which gave them something like 10% Morale and 10% Cavalry Combat (Medieval Castille was actually quite fond of heavy cavalry).

Portugal is that obvious case many people have been pointing out lately, its underpowered both in the sea and in land throughout the entire game (no combat ideas whatsoever). They should be a major global naval power untill mid-late game and compete with Spain on land until Spain gets its Age Bonus in the late 1500's, it should also help them defeat rich Indian and Indonesian nations in the early 1500's (like in real life) while there is still no tech advantage for the West. They should also get something that helps them defend better against stronger enemies in the late game like Fort Defense and Attrition for Enemies.

France is... alright, maybe a little bit too strong on the land, but then again, compared to Prussia they are not strong enough... so I'm not very sure.
However what I am sure about is that it should get its military power later in the mid-game, they should struggle against Spain untill France gets its Age Bonus. It could also use a little more specific bonus like Cavalry early on an Artillery later on.

This is a purely quality comparison, not taking in consideration numbers and wealth.
 
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@MatRopert will French Ideas be getting looked at?
I think it may be a bit better for both historical representation and balance if the 20% French “Elán!” Was changed to “French Chivalry” - 15% morale and 10% cavalry combat ability. Or maybe even +1 cavalry shock, along the same lines as the Spanish artillery modifier?
France was always famous for its cavalry and it’s strange that they have nothing in-game to show for it.
In my personal french, non content designer and biased (in that order) opinion the French ideas are very good as they stand right now.
You could as well make a case for Artillery Fire or Combat Ability, from Bureau to Napoléon.
 
In my personal french, non content designer and biased (in that order) opinion the French ideas are very good as they stand right now.
You could as well make a case for Artillery Fire or Combat Ability, from Bureau to Napoléon.
I think a cavalry combat buff would be more suited. While Napoléon was of course an artillery master and the French schools were very good, their cavalry ability extended for the entire duration of the game, from knight to cuirassier, and even in the Grande Armée the French cavalry was rightly noted and feared in particular.
Just seems a strange omission from their national ideas, especially considering how generic “Elán!” is.
But that’s just my non-French, unbiased American, game-playing and historical enthusiast opinion ;)
 
Well, Iberia did get buffed in terms of provinces by the simple removal of the Barbary Tradition of +50% Hostile Core Creation. It's very striking because before, with that tradition in place, I saw the AI barely ever take up any land in North Africa. You'd see Portugal basically holding Cueta, if even that (as it was like a 40% chance that Morocco went and kicked Portugal's teeth in), and Spain ignoring it entirely.

Since then I've seen them completely take North Africa every game all the way out to Fezzan, splitting it between Portugal and Spain, obliterating barbary cultures, massively increasing the trade flowing into Seville as well as their development compared to before. Which is probably, I'm wagering, the real reason that I see France getting absolutely curb stomped as Iberian power was increased heavily by that change.
That was a bad change then, since Iberians never conquered much of Morocco other than the coastal areas.
 
When Spain more provinces? France looks more meaty and interesting, i hope not see half of Hispania conquest by France in almost every game.
We always keep watch on how the average game pan out. I can assure you Spain is still doing very well.
 
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We always keep watch on how the average game pan out. I can assure you Spain is still doing very well.
I'm more worried about the quality of the provinces than the amount of them.
 
I think a cavalry combat buff would be more suited. While Napoléon was of course an artillery master and the French schools were very good, their cavalry ability extended for the entire duration of the game, from knight to cuirassier, and even in the Grande Armée the French cavalry was rightly noted and feared in particular.
Just seems a strange omission from their national ideas, especially considering how generic “Elán!” is.

Then again, the "grognards" were the dreaded infantry that supported the conquests and made them all possible. And the "Napoleonic tactics" included artillery barrage and fortification takedown. And the imperial generals were simply awesome to their foes. So many different things that makes "Elan!" look like an adequate catch them all mechanic imo.
 
Then again, the "grognards" were the dreaded infantry that supported the conquests and made them all possible. And the "Napoleonic tactics" included artillery barrage and fortification takedown. And the imperial generals were simply awesome to their foes. So many different things that makes "Elan!" look like an adequate catch them all mechanic imo.
You're mostly talking about the last 20-30 years of EU4; cavalry-combat ability would fit with most of EU4's timeframe altogether. It could be a small bonus; no buff.

French knights were the creme-de-la-creme and Elan was written in an age when national idea flavour-texts were boring.
 
So you downvoted because I asked a question!?! Ummmm, Okaaay. SIGH.

Seriously. The question in my original post was (word for word):



So why couldn't you have simply answered the question as opposed to...... um, you know?

Second, I have tons of basis for my concerns and question! You can't tell me I don't because you didn't ask!!!! I outlined some of the basis for my concerns and question in my second post, btw. Which proves you wrong on that count. TY.

And yes the Steam Chart stats are relevant to the conversation because in the Dev Diary it was stated:



Keywords in that were "let us know what you think". I absolutely think that there is a correlation between the drop in player base and all the new provinces being added to the maps! In fact I stated that very concern within my second post!!! I literally stated the following:



In regards to Crusaders Kings II are you referring to the one month increase in players for that game in the month of April 2019? Lost about a thousand players (Peak) in May 2019.

Month Avg. Players Gain % Gain Peak Players
Last 30 Days 7,151.5 -45.8 -0.64% 12,310
May 2019 7,197.3 -425.8 -5.59% 12,310
April 2019 7,623.1 +1,976.8 +35.01% 13,531
March 2019 5,646.3 -546.0 -8.82% 9,735
February 2019 6,192.2 -586.6 -8.65% 10,689
January 2019 6,778.9 -633.2 -8.54% 12,054
December 2018 7,412.0 -542.2 -6.82% 14,146
November 2018 7,954.2 +3,626.1 +83.78% 20,429

Sure there will likely be an increase in players when the DLC is released. But that's not the concern nor the question. The concern and the questions are how large of an increase will there be and will the game retain those players for longer than a month? I'm telling you and Paradox (especially Paradox) that there are other, more important, concerns that players have other than them dissecting the map just to suffice the vocal people in these forums. In the grand scheme the players can live without more provinces being added to the game. Which, contrary to your opinion by the nature of the beast DOES make certain things within the game more challenging! That's simple math and logic.

When you bring up CK2 you should look further than november 2018, you go back to the last big dlc (HF), which was released in November, but before that the player numbers were closer to 8000 than the current 10-12k and over it's lifespan the player base has slowly been growing throughout the years (not only at the release day of dlc's, but even in the low between the updates).
 
French knights were the creme-de-la-creme and Elan was written in an age when national idea flavour-texts were boring.

Oh really? That's one thing that I've always appreciated. Events, flavour, descriptions, etc. are generally amazingly well written and a pleasure to read for me!!

Anyhow if you want to make french cavalry surpass that of, say, Byzantium, you'd have to first give it for free 20% combat ability (no cossacks…), 10% shock, and then accomodate for the fact it has worse pips :p So yeah, while I agree that it's weird that it's not very much represented, I don't think that buffing the cavalry of france would achieve much for that country unless you go grossly over the top, Poland style. Maybe there's another way to address this? A special Chevalerie (Chivalry) estate?
 
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unless you go grossly over the top
You mean like +1 cavalry shock for France like what Spain has for artillery? That could potentially have a good, strong, but not OP effect
 
Finnish isn't even in the same language family as the Scandinavian languages (which are Germanic but still have their own seperate group) and yet it's grouped with them for gameplay purposes. It makes more sense for Netherlands to be the culture union for low countries cultures than Germany.
No it does not. Culture unions aren't a think any more empire tier titles are "culture unions" and there is no empire title in the Netherlands except the HRE.