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EU4 - Development Diary - 4th of June 2019

Hello again! In previous weeks we’ve shown you revamped maps of Italy and German and the revitalized political setups in these regions. Today will be no different as we delve into the land of cheese, wine, and élan!

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The most striking thing you’ll notice about this new setup is the return of the French “vassal swarm”. The Duchies of Orleans, Bourbonnais, Auvergne, Armagnac, and Foix will be returning to the game alongside their glorious but rarely-seen Hundred Years War unit models. But how will you balance this, I preemptively hear you asking? Won’t France need extra diplomatic relations to cope with this? Won’t France be horrendously overpowered in the early game? Fear not, for we have answers and solutions - which I am not going to reveal today.

So, what's up with balkanized France? The reality is that in 1444, the Kingdom of France was quite decentralized. The Hundred Years War had forced the King to enact new taxes to finance his troops which led to several revolts and conspiracies from its nobility. That conflict continued for most of the second half of the 15th century. Historically the crown prevailed and managed to bring France toward centralization and absolutism, but in EU4 it won't be a given. Hence we decided to make that part of the French gameplay by representing the strongest Dukes and Counts as vassals in 1444.
  • Orléans was the strongest of them and often the leader of the resistance against the Crown. The head of the House of Orléans in 1444 was Charles the First, a cousin of the King who spent 25 years in English captivity. His son Louis would historically become King of France later on following the extinction of the main Valois branch.
  • The Duchy of Bourbon (or Bourbonnais) is held by Jean II, an up and coming noble that illustrated himself in combat the same year our game starts. Historically, he sided with the King's party, but changed side later on after losing a prestigious office.
  • Armagnac is in a tight spot. The result of CK2-style border gore, his possessions are spread across central and southern France. Its leader, Jean IV, recently took part in a failed revolt against the King and is kept on a tight leash.
  • Foix is held by Count Gaston IV, also General Lieutenant of the French Armies of Gascony and Guyenne.

You’ll also notice that France and its subjects (nominal and otherwise) have a handful of additional provinces. I mentioned in a previous dev diary a desire to include Foix, Carcassonne, Toulon, and La Marche. All of these have made it in to this iteration of the map. Toulon felt especially valuable due to its status as a major base of naval operations for France later in the timeframe, and as you’ll see in an upcoming dev diary the establishment of this great arsenal is an important part of more than one new mission tree. We also found room for Forez, which allows us to represent the divide between the crown and Bourbon territories. Blois beefs up the Duchy of Orleans, the most powerful of the French vassal states and often a thorn in the side of the French kings.

To better represent the divide between western (Ducal Burgundy) and eastern (Free HRE Country Burgundy), we added the province of Salins and its large salt mine. This lead us to split Burgundy in two, but instead of following the Imperial divide we elected instead to make two balanced states with one holding land on both sides, making any division an imperfect choice that is sure to spark more conflict in the future.

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Another addition to the political setup is the city-state of Geneva, here represented in 1444 as a vassal of Savoy. Geneva was subject to Savoy until 1524, and up to that point had a troubled relationship with its overlord. The House of Savoy repeatedly attempted to increase their control over the city to little avail except to alienate its citizens and foster a desire for independence. Local authorities sought to ally with the Swiss cantons, and the city would eventually join the Swiss Confederacy. In addition, the old province of Savoy has been split between Anessi and Ciamber.

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Moving further away from France, we’ve also made some changes to the Low Countries. I’ve spoken before regarding our concerns about adding provinces to this region. We want it to retain the feeling of being a highly developed and densely populated region, and adding new provinces would force us to split development to the point that it might lose that feeling. We have however managed to squeeze in two additional provinces: ‘s-Hertogenbosch has been cut off from Breda, and Rysel adds a province to Flanders. We’ve also revised the Utrecht-Frisia border to reflect historical divisions of the Dutch provinces. Speaking of Frisia, we have at long last added Frisian culture to the game. You’ll find Frisians inhabiting the provinces of Friesland, Groningen, and Ostfriesland. We’ve also redrawn the area map, doing away with the “Netherlands” area and adding a distinction between North and South Brabant.

Last week I promised a look at the Balkans alongside France, but we’ve decided instead to dedicate an entire dev diary to this topic. Expect to see that in a couple of weeks, as our next dev diary will cover some of the new mission trees in the French and Dutch region. Until then, let us know what you think of the new map setup as well as which mission trees you want to see next week.
 
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and -20 siege ability
-20 siege ability? Is this supposed to be a malus or did you mean +20%?
If you did mean +20% it might be a bit too much
I agree with the +20% defense, but adding +20% siege would make it too good as a single idea, expecially in comparisson to the Netherlands idea "Sappers" which only gives a +15% boost.
A +15% defense and +10% siege idea for France would be more reasonable (unless we also rebalance the rest of Western Europe's ideas)

Corsairs were a thing mainly during the 7YW... Which lasted 7 years. Historically speaking, it was used because the Brit litteraly pre captured, before the war, thousands of French sailors, and that Louis XV was too much of a Pacifist to react soundly.
You are looking at it from a British perspective, but the French pirates were already harassing Spanish and expecially Portuguese ships and coastlines way before the 7YW. I'm not an expert on naval history but IIRC the French corsairs did sack Funchal in 1566 and Rio de Janeiro in 1711.

im not sure National ideas are supposed to support such things. What's more, it is not a good depiction of what was the French navy, at the time
You do have a point, i agree this relatively minor and anecdotal historical event is not worth an idea slot. I just wanted France to get at least one naval bonus, and a reason to invest in the naval game, without necessarily turning it in a naval power.

privateering bonus is so situationnal that its almost useless.
Well, i like ideas with two bonii, so it could be a privateer bonus and a more useful combat or trade bonus.

The bonus could be " Heavy ship ability +15% / Heavy ship maintenance -10%".
The problem with this, is that with the exception of Brittain, the rest of the western Europeans (Spain, Netherlands and Portugal) have very underwhelming naval ideas.
If you gave France this bonus, it would place them on the same level with Spain and the Netherlands, and superior to Portugal. And i don't think traditionally land-based powers like France should dominate the seas over traditionally naval nations like Netherlands, Spain and Portugal.
But again, this is not an issue of France being too strong, but its rivals being too weak.
 
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Oh, some Changes for the german minors: Dortmund and Jülich added!

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Ming: Look what I can do!

Ming used Explosion
Ming hurt itself in it's confusion!

You do have a point, i agree this relatively minor and anecdotal historical event is not worth an idea slot. I just wanted France to get at least one naval bonus...
I think an event could perhaps facillitate this point in history/the game giving France a temporary naval boost. It would provide a window of opportunity for French players and the AI to challenge the naval powers, without making France a permanent naval hegemon?

Is Julich is the most distorted-looking province in the game?
 
Paradox still chose not to make Zeeland an island like Venice or even better a bunch of islands like Naxos. Wrong choice.
Zeeland1545.jpg
 
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This dev-diary showed us the new French setup, I was quite sad to see that old provinces haven't been properly adjusted, even though I made a feedback-thread (the one in my signature) roughly 5 months before this dev-diary. Anyway, I hope the developers will still look at this map and adjust the cities:
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1: Moved the capital and it should be renamed to Brest.
2: Moved the capital.
3: Moved the capital and it should be renamed to Saint-Malo.
4: Moved the capital (Angers, which is in the Maine-province) to the correct bank of the river, as the current capital is in the location of Saumur.
5: Moved the capital.
6: Moved the capital and it should be renamed to Rouen. Caux was a geographical entity without Rouen.
7: Moved the capital.
8: Moved the capital.
9: Moved the capital to the correct bank of the river.
10: Moved the capital (Soissons) to the correct position above the river and in the current Reims-province. The current capital is in the position of Compiegne.
11: Moved the capital.
12: Moved the capital.
13: Moved the capital.
14: Moved the capital to the correct bank of the river.
15: Auxerrois currently has a fortress as capital, but it should have Auxerre as capital; the city it was named after in the first place and more important.
16: Moved the capital.
17: Moved the capital to the correct bank of the river.
18: Moved the capital.
19: Moved the capital.
20: Moved the capital.
21: Moved the capital of Gueret and reshaped the province.
22: Moved the capital of Limoges (should be above that river) and reshaped the province.
23: Moved the capital to the correct bank of the river.
24: Moved the capital.
25: Moved the capital.
26: Moved the capital to the correct bank of the river.
27: Moved the capital closer to the river.
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1: Annecy, although sizable nowadays, is barely located in the province and thus should be renamed to either Bugey (with the capital of Belley, which is already in the correct position) or to Bresse (with the capital of Bourg-en-Bresse, which is indicated by the red dot). The latter has my preference, as it was more important within the timeframe of EU4.
2: Geneve should be closer to the lake.
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1: Moved the capital; Zeeland should also be a couple of islands (like Naxos) with the mainland part (county of Bergen op Zoom) being given to Breda, as is historically correct.
2: Moved the capital of Breda to its correct location on the border between Breda and Zeeland.
3: Moved 's Hertogenbosch to the correct location within the province of Breda.
4: Moved the capital closer to the mouth of the river Schelde.
5: Brabant should be renamed to Brussel, as Breda, 's Hertogenbosch, Antwerpen and Brussels were all part of the duchy of Brabant.
6: Moved the capital and it should be renamed to Hasselt.
7: Moved the capital to the correct position at the river.
8: Moved the capital and the province should be renamed to Brugge, as Vlaanderen was bigger than just that province and also included Gent.
9: Moved Roermond to the correct location on the river Maas.
 

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Can Aquitaine be split to make Albret, Antwerp split to make Brugge, Luxembourg split to make Arlon, and Oversticht split into Drenthe?


*Drenthe has been populated for around 150,000 years.
 
Can Aquitaine be split to make Albret, Antwerp split to make Brugge, Luxembourg split to make Arlon, and Oversticht split into Drenthe?


*Drenthe has been populated for around 150,000 years.

Wait, Antwerp split to make Brugge?

Brugge is already a province as Vlaanderen and is located not even close to Antwerp, Gent being in Between.

Aquitaine should definitely be split, possibly even to fit in Agenais.

Arlon would be a really nice addition and while I would personally love Drenthe to be added, I think many people on eu4 think it's too insignificant.
 
Arlon doesn't really add anything and you'd end up with two mini-provinces. Drenthe's too poor to consider.

And as Caligula said; Brugge is the capital of Vlaanderen (which really should be renamed to Brugge).
 
Arlon doesn't really add anything and you'd end up with two mini-provinces. Drenthe's too poor to consider.

And as Caligula said; Brugge is the capital of Vlaanderen (which really should be renamed to Brugge).

Arlon adds the major distinction between Walloon Luxembourg and Rhenish Luxembourg, which is a rather important difference.

Also Luxembourg was huge, if anything, it's the devs not giving it proper land rather than it being too small

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And poor is a relative standard.

Bornholm, Rugen, Wolgast, Greifswald and Stralsund are generally in area as big as a Drenthe province would be and Drenthe is much more populated.

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Two comparisons.


Another one, Zeeland vs Drenthe:

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Drenthe vs Greifswald (modern, comprised over two provinces in EU4)

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Brugge already exists, iirc it is the capital of the Flanders province.

There was another place missing in Flanders that was somewhat significant. Maybe it was Ypres (Ieper in Dutch) that fits the location west of Vlaanderen. It was the 3rd largest city in Flanders after Ghent and Brugge and a important trading center of cloth. Adding it would in turn give it the same amount of provinces as Brabant. Vlaanderen should also be renamed to Brugge.
 
-20 siege ability? Is this supposed to be a malus or did you mean +20%?
If you did mean +20% it might be a bit too much
I agree with the +20% defense, but adding +20% siege would make it too good as a single idea, expecially in comparisson to the Netherlands idea "Sappers" which only gives a +15% boost.
A +15% defense and +10% siege idea for France would be more reasonable (unless we also rebalance the rest of Western Europe's ideas)
Yep, +20. Id Agree with your second proposal, though i think Vauban and his influence are underestimated (in France too). He just changed the way European fortress (T4 in EUIV) were built. And the way they were sieged. Though he was helped by the studies of Ottomans sieged.


You are looking at it from a British perspective, but the French pirates were already harassing Spanish and expecially Portuguese ships and coastlines way before the 7YW. I'm not an expert on naval history but IIRC the French corsairs did sack Funchal in 1566 and Rio de Janeiro in 1711.
Hm, i'd never have thought being accused of looking French Navy the British way. Im French, from Toulon, :D. You are right over Corsairs though that was anecdotical. French navy is unknown (mainly because of the post Revolution era and 7YW that were terrible for it), but it consistently beat the Dutch, the Spanish and even the Brits (through that was less common that the opposite). From Jean de Viennes who planned to land in Britain during the HYW, to Maillé Brézé and De Grasse that were gifted commanders there is more to be known. Though and here was my point, the very strong point of French navy during the TL of the game was its engineering.
Borda Sané, Heavy Frigates, and of course 74 Cannons were European wide (and even transcontinental wide) French innovations that impacted naval warfare. And they were due to a constant effort, from Richelieu, Colbert, then Maurrepas, to provide France with a great navy to protect its interest against the brits. Of course all was not successful, but an idea about 2 centuries of dedication wouldnt be too much (we agree on that point) , and Nothing is as symbolic as the 74 Canons.

You do have a point, i agree this relatively minor and anecdotal historical event is not worth an idea slot. I just wanted France to get at least one naval bonus, and a reason to invest in the naval game, without necessarily turning it in a naval power.

We do agree.

Well, i like ideas with two bonii, so it could be a privateer bonus and a more useful combat or trade bonus.

I wouldnt like that idea, but we could have a "French Antilles" idea, that would both boost trade and sailors cap, as it was a massive source of income in the last 25% of the game.

1.The problem with this, is that with the exception of Brittain, the rest of the western Europeans (Spain, Netherlands and Portugal) have very underwhelming naval ideas.
2.If you gave France this bonus, it would place them on the same level with Spain and the Netherlands, and superior to Portugal.
3.And i don't think traditionally land-based powers like France should dominate the seas over traditionally naval nations like Netherlands, Spain and Portugal.
But again, this is not an issue of France being too strong, but its rivals being too weak.

1. I agree
2. I disagree. In the early to mid game those power were clearly dominant over France in naval warfare. However during the last part of it, none of them could match the French might over the seas. Only UK could. This is why id like to have a late (but powerful) naval idea for France.
3. I somewhat disagree. France was a vast militaristic power, both on ground and on the sea, that Portugal was not (except early game). NL was rapidly crushed by UK (Midgame) and then became a token of it. The influence and might of NL (and Portugal) was not on the military forces of their navies, late game, but on their trade power and finances, and of course, their political influence. As a consequence, we could imagine a situation where both this countries can field dozen of ships, (or hundreds :D), but the best quality ship late game were and should be French and Brits ones. But moreover, as it was historically, we could imagine diplomacy between NL, Spain and France, to counter, side by side, the Brits Naval power.

Yes, that means that military speaking it wont be balanced, but EUIV is not a balanced game
 
I thought of a possibly better solution to simulating the conflict over the division of Burgundy. Keep the two states divided by the imperial border. Then create a decision for anyone holding the duchy of Burgundy to spend some diplo power to instantly gain claims on the Franche Comte, and vice-versa
 
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Won’t France need extra diplomatic relations to cope with this? Won’t France be horrendously overpowered in the early game? Fear not, for we have answers and solutions - which I am not going to reveal today.
as someone who did not like the original vassal swarm I feel this information is very important to this dev diary