EU4 - Development Diary - 9th of October 2018

[Twoflower]

Will Valencia have it own culture or it will remain "catalan"?

I really, really don't want to start this debate. But I'll have to say that I firmly disagree with introducing a "Valencian" culture. As a catalanophile, I am hardly unbiased on this, I am aware that this is a highly politicized question in Spain and especially the Comunitat Valenciana and that there are very legitimate reasons for Valencians not to want to be associated with Catalan separatism (although I personally support that movement).
Suffice to say that I do not consider Valencian a separate language, and that there are no linguistic, cultural or political differences between Valencia, Catalonia and the Baleares in 1444 or in 1819 that would justify giving them different cultures.

 

[pauletx]

I really, really don't want to start this debate. But I'll have to say that I firmly disagree with introducing a "Valencian" culture. As a catalanophile, I am hardly unbiased on this, I am aware that this is a highly politicized question in Spain and especially the Comunitat Valenciana and that there are legitimate reasons for Valencians not to want to be associated with Catalan separatism (although I personally support that movement).
Suffice to say that I do not consider Valencian a separate language, and that there are no linguistic, cultural or political differences between Valencia, Catalonia and the Baleares in 1444 or in 1819 that would justify giving them different cultures.

Being Catanalophile already means u are biased towards catalonian, doesn't it?

And i can assure u, that there was actual political differences between Catalonia and Valencia on 1444 (first one, they both were separated territories inside the Crown of Aragon, and second one, Valencia having higher rank than Catalonia), the native population was still living there and culture isn't just the language. Would u consider English and Americans as the same culture just because they speak the same language?

I am valencian myself, i think i would know if my culture and catalonian one would be the same... right?

 

[Rekt4N00bz]

Great this immersion pack is going to be worth it i tell you this!

 

[Lepaso]

Great this immersion pack is going to be worth it i tell you this!

Calm down there, we only have the map changes so far, there's more than enough time for them to ruin everything with awful game mechanic changes.

 

[Gunthah]

Please, don't forget Galicia. Those provinces are wrong. You don't need to change the number or shapes, just the names:
A Coruna -> A Coruña (current name) / Cruña (traditional name). Chose the name you prefer, but remember, never, NEVER use "La" Coruña. If you have problems with the "ñ", you can use A Corunha / Crunia.
Lugo -> Lugo, it's ok, it was a very important city and province.
Vigo -> Pontevedra / Tui. WTF? Vigo? Vigo is a big city today, not in the XV century. Pontevedra was a more important city at that time, but Tui is always forgotten even it had its own province in the kingdom and its own cathedral.
Orense -> Ourense, for god's sake. Let's avoid hispanicization of toponyms.

Also you should delete that weird kingdom of Asturias. Asturias was part of the kingdom of León, and the rest was part of the kingdom of Castile.

Btw, great update! Thanks!

It should be La Coruña if held by Spain, A Coruña if held by Galicia. The same as Oporto and the rest of Iberian provinces that have a Spanish name. The same goes for Orense/Ourense.

Nationalist aversion to "hispanicization" doesn't seem to play a part in this game, where tons of provinces all over the world are renamed when the holder's language has a name for them.

 

[Gunthah]

The use of castillianized names in Galicia is a bit of a touchy point nowadays for Galicians.

Please, at least do use Galician place names if the state culture is Galician or Portuguese. The most precise way to do it would be to use Galician place names if Galician is an accepted culture, and currently the most accepted answer to the question of Galician place names is that they are to be used only in Galician even in Castillian texts.

Also, converting provinces or changing the state culture to Galician should change the place name in the Iberian Peninsula at least, if you want to maintain consistence.

Spanish names for places in Galicia (those that had a name in Spanish) were used profusely during the period of the game as well as afterwards and even to this day most people use the Spanish name when speaking Spanish and the Galician name when speaking Galician.

The only ones that see an issue are nationalists who are constantly telling Galicians they're too contaminated by Spain and not pure enough.

 

[Twoflower]

Being Catanalophile already means u are biased towards catalonian, doesn't it?

That's what I was trying to imply

And i can assure u, that there was actual political differences between Catalonia and Valencia on 1444 (first one, they both were separated territories inside the Crown of Aragon, and second one, Valencia having higher rank than Catalonia), the native population was still living there and culture isn't just the language. Would u consider English and Americans as the same culture just because they speak the same language?

Yes, there were differences, but these differences were not greater than those between Catalonia and the Baleares. The political and legal cultures of Catalonia and Valencia had many things in common which distinguished them from, say, Castille, such as the tradition of Pactisme, the influence of the Consolats del Mar on commercial and civil law, the political role of their corts and the much lesser importance of the foral tradition than in other Iberian territories.

I am valencian myself, i think i would know if my culture and catalonian one would be the same... right?

As I said, I am aware that Valencian/Catalan question is a very controversial one among Valencians. I know that there are many Valencians who consider their language and culture separate, and also many Valencians who consider themselves and their language Catalans (and having actually been to Valencia - both the city and the Comunitat - I have actually personally spoken to people of both opinions, and heard them speak Valencian/Valencian Catalan).
I honestly do not want to offend you, but I am still of a different opinion regarding Valencian
Still, just to be clear, my point is not that Valencia and Catalonia and their respective languages and cultures are exactly the same, just that they are too similar to be separate cultures in EU4.
Making Catalan and Valencian different cultures would almost necessarily mean also having a Majorcan culture, and much more granular cultures in many other places.

 

[ShahanShah]

I CUM

 

[Monphat]

Like it was pointed out, Portugal did punch way above it's weight. The comparison to the netherlands and prussia was made, but I don't think that's fair. Those two countries had much more population and were more developed (compared with the rest of the world) at the time of their rise.

It is a fair comparison because Prussia and Netherlands were in the same situation as Portugal: small nations surrounded by far more populous and powerful neighbors. All three had to rely on quality over quantity to survive. It was just a matter of different scale population-wise.

Now about adding provinces.

Gameplay argument: since other nations were unreasonably buffed, Iberia, including Portugal, also needs a buff to stay competitive. Simply raising development in all existing provinces is an inferior choice to adding more of them. That's why the nation needs a bit more development.

Historicity argument: Portugal may've not been as developed as Netherlands or Prussia, but comparatively it was still more developed than what is suggested by the current map, which is why a couple of provinces in Ribatejo and Alentejo areas is justified.

Not sure that OP ideas are the way to go because they carry much larger game-breaking potential. On the other hand, a bit more development and slightly improved ideas together should produce a better effect. Portugal definitely needs fortification and naval bonuses as well as increased naval forcelimit.

 

[Bearsdale]

poor little navarra

 

[otaats]

Iberia
North Africa
HRE
Italy
Balkans

 

[Mingmung]

Iberia
North Africa
HRE
Italy
Balkans

France would also like a word with you (for completionists sake), as well as the Baltic.

 

[Sunspawn]

France would also like a word with you (for completionists sake), as well as the Baltic.

France got several reworks in recent patches.

 

[pauletx]

That's what I was trying to imply

Yes, there were differences, but these differences were not greater than those between Catalonia and the Baleares. The political and legal cultures of Catalonia and Valencia had many things in common which distinguished them from, say, Castille, such as the tradition of Pactisme, the influence of the Consolats del Mar on commercial and civil law, the political role of their corts and the much lesser importance of the foral tradition than in other Iberian territories.

As I said, I am aware that Valencian/Catalan question is a very controversial one among Valencians. I know that there are many Valencians who consider their language and culture separate, and also many Valencians who consider themselves and their language Catalans (and having actually been to Valencia - both the city and the Comunitat - I have actually personally spoken to people of both opinions, and heard them speak Valencian/Valencian Catalan).
I honestly do not want to offend you, but I am still of a different opinion regarding Valencian
Still, just to be clear, my point is not that Valencia and Catalonia and their respective languages and cultures are exactly the same, just that they are too similar to be separate cultures in EU4.
Making Catalan and Valencian different cultures would almost necessarily mean also having a Majorcan culture, and much more granular cultures in many other places.

Catalonian cultural influence would reach its peak at the beggining of 1600, when the native muslim population (around 1/3 of the time population) was expelled from Valencia (and Spain), and the repoblation of these lands by catalans, and even with them expelled, their cultural influence remained untill today. Before that, the native people was living there, merging with the christian populations that not only came from Aragon, Catalonia and Navarra, but from France and Italy pursuing a better life on the prosper Kingdom of Valencia.

A one of my fellows said earlier, Valencia was the first territory on Spain to have its own "Golden Century" starting from late XIV century, revolutionated the culture, the language, the economy and the arts of the Valencian peoples. We don't consider ourselves catalans for the sake of spanish nationalism, we consider ourselves Valencians, because we have our own history and proven facts that state that Valencian and Catalonian cultures, being similar, are different. After all, u wont consider Mexican and Spanish, or English and American, being the same culture just because they are similar.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Valencia

 

[Piotrzeci]

I hate you guys.

 

[regne_valencia]

I really, really don't want to start this debate. But I'll have to say that I firmly disagree with introducing a "Valencian" culture. As a catalanophile, I am hardly unbiased on this, I am aware that this is a highly politicized question in Spain and especially the Comunitat Valenciana and that there are very legitimate reasons for Valencians not to want to be associated with Catalan separatism (although I personally support that movement).
Suffice to say that I do not consider Valencian a separate language, and that there are no linguistic, cultural or political differences between Valencia, Catalonia and the Baleares in 1444 or in 1819 that would justify giving them different cultures.

For history,for culture,for language,for traditions,Valencia deserves his own culture

 

[Mingmung]

France got several reworks in recent patches.

You're right. Northern France got a sizable update, yeah, Southern France only got some additions. I'm just saying that there's more going on in France and some cities are placed wrong there (I see a trend there). I'm just hoping that we'll get an Immersion Pack there someday. I agree that this region shouldn't be on the priority-list, like the Balkans or the HRE.

 

[Fishman786]

There should be an achievement for occupying Ibiza as the English.

EDIT:
Call it "Woah, we're gonna have a party!" for a blast of 1990s nostalgia...

 

[Zak Preston]

Sorry, but again. What you've said before doesn't correspond with the final result. This is not a good map update, how is it possible that you could find enough time to research for the British Isles and Russia but not for the Iberian peninsula.

I hope you are not too serious: nor Russia, nor Poland update weren't as good as you might imagine, There is so much mess in provinces' and areas' names, cities' locations, ugly state borders and so on.
Even after one Immersion pack and free update some of historically Russian, Lithuanian, and Polish areas are aven less represented than West or Cenatral Africa and Thirteen Colonies.
Even despite abundance of feedback nor Poland, nor Russia, nor Lithuania got any fixes. Speaking of Lithuania: it's is even in a weirder situation with occasional map updates that re always incomplete and leave certain areas untouched.
But the ugliest part of Europe is Pontic Steppe region: it's somewhere between Siberia and Amazon river estuary in terms of provinces size and density.

However I still realize it's a game, not a history book, which helped me to lower my expectations dramatically.

 

[Doomed World]

Hope Navarra has its ideas reworked a bit if its losing the coastline