EU4 - Development Diary - 9th of October 2018

[RHKINC]

I strangely feel like Portugal will be boosted in colonial, naval side. Maybe having their own naval doctrine and special colonization mechanic similar to Russia.
We will probably have real representation of 3 super powers in oceans after this patch (Spain, Portugal, UK). Only Ottomans could try to counter them in limited areas like red sea, basra, some parts of india and southeastern asia but yet failed nearly everwhere. And patch also tries to represent these tries by adding more pirate states - somewhat supported/protected by Ottomans.

Going off what you said I had an idea. What if there was an event every five years if you play as the Ottomans that checks to see if any pirate states exist, and then send them 10 or (X) amount of gold. This way Ottoman steam rollers can bankroll a historical piracy.

 

[petertju]

I completely understand your point, and here you are giving us good feedback. Yet, you have to remember that the development diaries are here not only to inform you about the direction we are taking, they are also a good way to gather feedback. Development diaries are usually work in progress and not the final product, hence they can be subject to change (depending on the suggestions made by the community and if they align with our vision - see my previous post). Development diaries are a good way to correct mistakes that might have gone under the radar. Now, regarding the points you have brought up:

• Lleida will have a rework - and Zaragoza might be more central.
• The Majorca tag is under consideration.
• The Cordoba tag as been deemed unnecessary as Granada already covers the area (we are currently doing great work on the latter, stay tuned for more information). But again, maybe you might have a good suggestion as to why we should include this tag? If so I will bring it up in my report to the dev team.
• Province density for Portugal hasn't change much as it was on par with the rest of Spain. By changing it we would upset the game balance.

Hope these points will address your concerns.

First of all, nice changes

Second, @RodDel & @neondt I just read this whole thread, and I noticed a very big change of tone after this post. Instead of receiving critic on the DD, a discussion started about multiple aspects of the post. I think this post was the turn around, since you showed that you were actively listening to the (sometimes harsh) feedback you received. This encouraged posters to give even more feedback.

Is it an idea, for every dev diary, to post a little update the day after the update to show the feedback that you take into account and that will the game? That way, people know they are heared, and are stimulated to give constructive feedback

 

[JPGM22]

I hope the devs can give some attention to this.
These are all the plausible provinces that Portugal may have! (All of them would be great but I understand we have to compromise)
Minho - capital Braga
Porto - Douro estuary and trade center
Bragança (the region is called Trás os Montes)
Coimbra - Place of University of Coimbra, one of the oldest in Europe. (The region is Called Beira Litoral; Littoral Beira)
Viseu (The region is called Beira Alta; upper Beira)
Covilhã - a big industrious center in late 1700 and 1800 mainly in textiles (The region is called Beira Baixa; Lower Beira)
Lisboa - Estuary and trade center
Ribatejo - capital Santarém. A lot of agriculture and cattle production here!
Evora - Forts and defensiveness! (The region is called Alto Alentejo; upperAlentejo)
Beja - Grains and agriculture (The region is called Baixo Alentejo; Lower Alentejo)
Setubal - Sado estuary, big salt production. (Also part of the Alentejo region) The province can be called Vale do Sado (Sado's valley)
Algarve - (Guadiana Estuary, shared with Huelva (Castille))

Or you can just follow this official map of the Portuguese Regions.

 

[Old Tercio]

Fake superpower that need 10 allies to beat real superpower Turkish Empire. Superpowers dont need allies to beat another one. Without Holy Leagues there was no single country in the Europe cold beat Turks 1vs1. Spain was a great power not superpower. In 18th century Ottoman Empire dropped to Great Power status from superpower.

Talking without any context, you know that the Spanish had around 250 ships at their disposal, but they wouldn't commit to the cause because of the benefit of Venice, always Venice was treacherous.

 

[João Araújo]

It doesnt really make sense that Galicia gets 3 provinces and Portugal only gets 1.

 

[Sir Leningrad]

Lérida/Lleida is completely placed wrong...

 

[klopkr]

When Cradle of Civilization came out I made a post about how ugly North Africa is.

Now they're updating North Africa and it's still just as ugly. There's barely been any changes done to the overall shape.

Please, all I want is for North African Provinces to have the same granularity as Egypt does.

 

[Mingmung]

Lérida/Lleida is completely placed wrong...

Already got fixed.

 

[FAB11AN]

Regarding other Iberian nations, which suggestions would you give us to improve map changes?

Portugal needs to have at least 15 or 16 provinces, think about balance please. All other countries that go colonial have a good base to start with. And hey, I´m not saying that Portuguese mainland has to be as rich as the whole France, but at least not be laughable. I think other people have exposed already that more provinces is always better for a country, as buildings that give flat modifiers have more use in them. Right now you can play as England, get a lot of wealth and then use that wealth to get your mainland rich and develop, it is an actual option, and many of us don´t just enjoy blobbing and having the biggest name in the map. Some people want to conquer half of the world, other people want to play historically accurate, other want to face challenges, other want eu4 to play mp game, other people want to get achievements and some want to play tall. Last map updates, from Russia to the last Indian one have added lots of new provinces, which actually allow these different playstyles to be done. For example now I can play Japan as a tall,rich,developed nation having colonies in Korea, China, etc, or I can play Japan and try to do my japanese empire. The key is that I can choose what to do, which I couldn´t before Japan got a decent number of provinces. Until now Iberia, and specially portugal was unplayable in some ways. Sure I can beat the ai and conquer half of North Africa if I want, but maybe (and that´s my case) I don´t like to blob, or I don´t want to get ahistorical path, it´s ok. But you know what I can´t do right now, I can´t play a tall Portugal game because the ammount of provinces it has doesn´t allow it. I mean, we are talking about Portugal, one of the most powerful countries in the 15th century, but it still has less provinces than Ireland, an island that had 0 impact in world history during that time (no mean to offend). My suggestion for Portugal would be trying to give her more coastal provinces in her mainland, so it can maintain a decent navy early in the game and can do things ( Portugal can´t even get 20 light ships patrolling plus a 10 heavy ships). If the idea with this patch is giving Portugal some unique bonus and just that I will be really dissapointed, because it will mean Portugal can´t have the level of detail of Ireland, the Arabian desert or Morocco (by no mean I think those areas dont have to have detail).

 

[otaats]

Portugal needs to have at least 15 or 16 provinces

think about balance please.

 

[Agoria]

Basing on the number of aragonese or english provinces, he's right.
But I think Paradox has some unique mechanics, policies, or modifiers for Portugal, as they stated having "more stuff" for Portugal.

 

[BalticM]

• Province density for Portugal hasn't change much as it was on par with the rest of Spain. By changing it we would upset the game balance.

I'm just curious, 5 extra provinces for Aragon doesn't upset game balance?
If anything Aragon is already the most overpowered nation in Mediterranean. There are no historical grounds why its development is twice the Naples, Papal States or Milan. Those 4 should be close in strength / development, maybe with Milan a bit behind. And with 16 provinces I doubt that development of Aragon was reduced.
For most of 15-18th centuries Aragon was the most remote and backwards region in Iberia, how come it gets so much flavor?

There were plenty of Iberia suggestions, none were complaining about Aragon and none suggested as many as 5 new provinces.

Can't say that 16 provinces are bad. Actually it is quite ideal, just that for Aragon it is like end product - it's hard to think of potential province which is still missing. While for Portugal and Castile there are still plenty of missing important provinces.

Portugal and Castile definitely are not on par with Aragon in Iberia and this patch only about to increase the distance. Neither all the rest of Mediterranean is on par with Aragon.

 

[Unikram]

While I've been hoping for an Iberia and North Africa patch for absolutely ages, I feel like the way that North Africa was changed is rather... underwhelming, to say the least.
Most of the region wasn't even changed, and the provinces are still square.
ill take it tho

 

[mrkrah]

Thanks for this! Great work!!!
I'm from A Coruña and I'm pleased to finally see my province in EU4, and you made my day with Galicia growing like that, my only concern is that Lugo should be the biggest province there, it looks a little weird as it is right now. Lugo should border the other three galician provinces. Maybe with a shape like this Pontevedra fits better as province name instead of Vigo

Also I support the idea that Portugal deserves something more than one province in an Iberian update...
Anyway, good job, it's nice to see that you are listening to us.

 

[FAB11AN]

Regarding other Iberian nations, which suggestions would you give us to improve map changes?

For Castile. First of all modern Spain doesn´t even look close regarding developement of what Castile was. By this I mean that in the 15th century Valladolid (NOT CASTILLA LA VIEJA, THATS A TERM TO DEFINE ALL OF PRIMITIVE CASTILE) was one of the major cities in the Peninsula, along with Burgos, considered the jew of Castile (just look for its Catedrale on the internet), Segovia (seat of the monarchs of de Trastamara) which was the political capital and Salamanca(in Salamanca we find the most important school of thought during the 15th century). In the north we find Zamora, a city famous for its walls and Leon, both of which have declined as wool trade, most important activity in late medieval Castile was focused on the Castilian side of the northern plateau. We also find the basque ports, which I strongly suggest adding as they had an enormous importance in trade in the Cantabrian sea, main focus of Castile trade. If we look to the center we are missing Guadalajara, possible to split it from Cuenca, as not only was it an important city, but splitting Cuenca into 2 would give Castile more ways of planning a defense against Aragon. Madrid was a small town in this era, and I think you should make a chain of events that make it develop from an insignificant town to one of the biggest european cities, it would be really cool, and it would make Castilian players feel that their nation is advancing, developing, getting richer. Extremadura is another place where I´m confused, how Galicia has such a big detail while Extremadura, a really important place at this era has 2 provinces. I suggest spliting thosue into 4 so we can se the depth of the region, which, I insist was way richer than it is today. Splitting it will also give a bigger and more detailed frontier with portugal, which will make the situation in the peninsula way more interesting. Now lets turn to Toledo state. In this state we find almaden mine, the biggest mercury mine in the world by this time, and don´t forget that you cant get silver without mercury. I sugges splitting Toledo and La mancha into 2 provinces each, maybe getting Ocaña and Ciudad real. And finally the south, andalusia. Cordoba was the biggest city of europe in the 10th century, it isnt son important anymore, but it isnt as porr as it is represented, I would suggest getting its development up, and adding a chain of events or decisions for Andalusia in which you can restore it to its former glory, get it to produce cloth, silk, etc and be the an impressive capital of the restored Caliphate. About Sevilla and Huelva, I think it is a good idea to split them, though I would still suggest geting 3 provinces there, as it would greatly help castile with naval task. But pleas, don´t make the mistake of letting Sevile as a poor city from the start, it was a huge city and during the 16th and 17th century it grew a lot, until it was hit by a plague. Sevile from the start should have good tradegoods as it produced them and should also be no less of 20 dev, also please leave in that province both the estuary and the COT, as it was one of the biggest centers of trade for a lot of time. I would suggest an event making it the port to the new world be more powerful and another event after the 18th century which lets you decide if you want to change it to Cadiz, as it happened historically. We are only missing murcia, which honestly I would ask to be split between cartagena and murcia, with spain having the option to make cartagena into his major shipyard, thus giving it a bonus or something to reflect what happened historically. I`m also going to ask for making Malaga in Granada a COT, as it was one of the biggest ports in Iberia in the 15th century with trade flowing from all directions, also I suggest giving Granada the province of Baza to let her try to defend against castile because right now castile can stackwipe granada in a month, but with a fort in baza granada can try things. Finally I want to talk about the Canarian islands because although I agree Castile didnt colonice it till after 1444 it is also important to understand that nobody besides castile held claim to it, and as I have seen that you have left it it seems portugal will always take it or in mp games some european colonicer that researchs quicker than spain.


So, to sum up,
1. Castile could get a bit of love in the basque region, splitting Vizcaya into 2 or even 3
2. Get Segovia as a province as it was hugely important and get Castilla la vieja renamed to Valladolid and maybe Toro splitted from Zamora to give more strategic depth there
3.In the center it would be positive to get Guadalajara splitted from Cuenca and Toledo and La Mancha splitted into 2
4. Extremadura with 4 provinces, you could even make it so religious orders control part of it with a modifier or something
5. In the south get Cordoba not to be horribly poor, maybe get a 3rd province in the bay of Seville, split Murcia into Cartagena and Murcia, get Baza to give a little strategic depth to Granada and make Malaga a COT (you could remove the one from Toledo if you dont want more cot in Iberia)
6. Make some kind of chain of events so Castile can colonize Canarias
7.Get developement in the Castile region, (Burgos, Soria, Valladolid, Segovia, Salamanca, Cantabria) higher as they were really rich places then.

I hope you take some of this into consideration to make Castile more fun and enjoying to play

 

[El Allandés]

With almost all the (neccesary imo) political geography related issues already discussed, I want to point out a small graphical error on the map that keeps bothering me since I bought the game: the river that starts in the province of Asturias, climbs the Cantabrian Range and flows then through León

To be accurate, the part of the river in Asturias should flow to the Cantabrian Sea, while the southern part should flow (as it is now) to the Duero River. As it is right now, the river climbs a mountain range well over 2000 m height after being almost at sea level

As I said, I know that it's a pretty irrelevant esthetic change, but considering the map rework, it should be something pretty easy to do

 

[RubicoPt]

Hello there.
First thing i'd like to say: I like the map changes but i don't think they are enough. Second thing, i really appreciate that change in the canaries islands, this way Portugal can make a run for them like it happened and I like to see something that I suggested in the map

I was preparing a bigger post regarding Portugal in 1444, and i will post it later in the suggestion forum, but right now i fell that I have to say something just regarding the map. I will write from a portuguese point of view. In my opinion Right now Portuguese armies can't hide from a spanish atack. In the north there isnt a single fort and the defensive lines arent represented (Linha do Tejo and Linha do Mondego). ate least 5 cities should be represented: Braga, spliting Porto and getting something from Bragança; Viseu and Guarda, Viseu getting something from new Aveiro and some from old Beira. Guarda, getting nort part of Beira Province. Castelo Branco, getting south part of Beira province; Santarem getting north part of Lisboa province. One more province that I think it deserve to be represented is Elvas. It is the biggest fortress in Europe and like Coquetin province in Normandy it would give a advantage deepth necessary to Portugal. (Olivença should be part of this province)
These provinces should be poor. They werent heavily populated in 1444.
Now, regarding Spanish side, Badajoz split between bradoz and Merida. If you conquer Badajoz you are not at Toledo doors.
Extremadura split between Caceres and Plasencia. Talavera province should be added to west side of Toledo and Castilla la Mancha.
And that's it regarding the map. Other considerations regarding Portugal in 1444 i will made them in the suggestions forum

 

[dayalu]

First of all thank you for this immersion pack... it was needed.

Since i'm Portuguese i would like to say that all this discussion about Portugal needing 1 or 2 more Provinces is something that doesn't make much sense. The biggest issue with the nation in the game is the lack of power it has, and adding 1 or 2 more provinces by sacrificing the dev of other Portuguese provinces is not going to solve the issue.
The issue, and there is an issue, as mentioned before Portugal is being conquered by Morocco (and some times Granada ) way more often then Devs are saying, is only solved either by increasing the total dev of Portugal (that seems not the best way to do it as Portugal didn't have that much development historically and Paradox already said they don't wish to do it) or by adding mechanics to ensure they get a healthy enough economy to fulfill is role in he game. The ways to do it would be to adding some sort of cheaper way to colonize, either by a completely new system like they did with Russia on the Russia DLC or via an idea. (maybe a colonial idea that reduces the costs of colonizing by half and increase the tariffs from colonies without affecting their happiness)

Will be looking forward to the Ideas reworks that look to be unavoidable.

Feitorias!

 

[IMAGY]

We need multithreding more than anything. This game is so incredible, but after all those new provinces added it kills my 4th generation i7. I mean it kills only one core because this is the issue im talking about. Starting to be a little unplayable at a certain point. Hope it will change soon.

 

[FAB11AN]

Regarding other Iberian nations, which suggestions would you give us to improve map changes?

Finally Aragon. It is important to understand that Aragon had a triple reality, Aragon , Valencia and Catalonia. Aragon region wasn´t really rich, nor was it densily populated, yet it became one of the dominant kingdoms in the late Middle ages fighting toe to toe with France. So how did a nation poorer, more sparsely populated, with less resources, les manpower beat france. The answer is simple, its organization. The Aragon state in the game is where Aragonese traditions still live, more rural area, nobles had more influence. In the game we could have Huesca (actual Pirineos) as it should be the correct name, then Barbastro, the actual mountains, then Teruel in the South, Zaragoza in the middle and Calatayud too, as those are the 4 important areas in which aragon can be divided. Then there is Catalonia, catalonia had been rich in the 12 and 13 century but in the 15 it was Valecia who took the major role as trading area. Catalonia could be divided in Rosellon (which by the way I like how you guys made it distinctive to make it more feasible for France to take it), then Girona (not really rich region and sparsely populated), down from Girona there is barcelona, which should be a nice city but dont have a lot of manpower as, I insist, aragon didnt have the manpower castile had. Down from Barcelona there is Tarragona. And my only suggestion comes with Urgell. I would split it into 2, Lleida and Urgell, Urgell being the catalan counterpart to the Pyrinees and Lleida being a flat terrain. I like how Valencia was doing, giving more strategic depth to it so no comments to that, though you may add a province in the interior that can protect Xativa and Valencia so in case of war Castile doesnt instasiege Valencia. The baleares are good but I wouldnt put a tag on it as it doesnt really make sense historically apart from some disputes in the late medieval ages.

As a sum up I think Aragon is the only Iberian part in which I think there is already a decent number of provinces and a decent detail, though Lleida.....
1. Split Pirineos into Barbastro, being the mountain part and Huesca being only hills
2. Get Calatayud in Aragon state as it was a really important city
3. Get Lleida to Catalonia state, and maybe split Urgell in 2, leaving Urgell to be the mountain part and Lleida the less mountainous part
4. Maybe get a province more in Valencia that can act as a fort to block