EU4 - Development Diary - 9th of October 2018

[TheRipper69-PT]

As it stands, Porto, Bragança, Beira and Évora all produce wine, so four 'canon' provinces actually, and Porto's high dev pushes the quantity even higher. So my idea was to cut it to several mid-dev provinces producing wine in Portugal (Minho, Bragança, Beira) to represent Porto's commerce of it, and have Porto's direct production be textiles. Make it a bit more layered in reality.

This way Porto could still claim to be a sort-of center of wine commerce in the game while producing an historical urban good (textiles).

Added argument to consider: the in-game boost that textiles give to development costs does represent pretty well how Porto's industrialization was important for its rise in 18th century, as well as in motivating the Methuen agreement.

Anyway, if you're still not convinced, I'll correct the post by tomorrow 7pm

Who cares if the trade goods are "too good"? Portugal is is super poor as per now and salt does not provide trade bonus... Even if it did the estuary only adds, its not a multiplier.

But even wine is not that great as a trade good... But I don't mind if Porto produces cloth...

Coimbra should even produce naval supplies...

I even think they will will only add one province to portugal at most and I really hope they do add setubal and braga.

I really hope they boost portugal old provinces development, no way lisbon should start with less than 20 development or algarve and madeira with less than 10.

Algarve was where all the discoveries began and madeira by 1500 was the biggest sugar producer in the world.

 

[Thrudgelmir2333]

Who cares if the trade goods are "too good"? Portugal is is super poor as per now and salt does not provide trade bonus... Even if it did the estuary only adds, its not a multiplier.

But even wine is not that great as a trade good... But I don't mind if Porto produces cloth...

Coimbra should even produce naval supplies...

I even think they will will only add one province to portugal at most and I really hope they do add setubal and braga.

I really hope they boost portugal old provinces development, no way lisbon should start with less than 20 development or algarve and madeira with less than 10.

Algarve was where all the discoveries began and madeira by 1500 was the biggest sugar producer in the world.

Oh, shoot, I should apologize. I meant to say "Cloths" in Porto and not "Textiles" all along Sorry, guys. My bad.

 

[Thrudgelmir2333]

Updated Version (1.2):

1. Added city placement corrections for Algarve and Lisbon and city placement for new provinces (Blue dots)
2. Corrected names for Mérida, Talavera
3. Added Segovia
4. Fixed boundaries of Minho and Setúbal according to suggestions

Regions & TG:
Beiras: Minho (wine/grain) , Porto CLOTH, Bragança wine, Beira wine)
Center: Lisbon fish, Coimbra grain, Ribatejo grain, Azores (cattle/fish)
Alentejo: Setubal salt, Evora wine, Beja cattle, Algarve fish
Macaronesia: Madeira sugar, Lanzarote sugar, Tenerife sugar, La Palma sugar
Strategic Stuff (Portugal):

1. Strait between Lisbon and Setúbal, both separated by Ribatejo;
2. Shared Guadiana modifier between Huelva and Algarve (5 points for each)
3. Castles in Évora (elvas) and Bragança (replacing Lisbon)
4. 'Gulf of Cadiz' renamed to 'Cape St.Vicent/ Vicentine Coast/Southern Lusitanian Sea'
   
5. Chesapeake forwards to Seville
   
6. For people asking about giving Setúbal an estuary; the salt trade good modifier already boosts trade in the province.

Strategic Stuff (Castille&Aragon):

1. Badajoz borders drawn to prevent border gore when annexed by either Léon or Portugal without Mérida or, alternatively, when annexed with Huelva instead;
2. Xátiva and Valencia now directly bordered by the river;
3. Estuary in Seville renamed to "Guadalquivir"

Alright, guys, tear it apart

 

[Afonso de Albuquerque]

I think the capital of Algarve should be Lagos, and I would trade Talavera or Guadalajara for Plasencia since I think the province of Extremadura/Caceres looks far too blocky (though Toledo was pretty bad too, so I see the appeal in Talvera). Great map otherwise. (edit: oh, and like others have mentioned, the borders of Evora should be adjusted to include Olivenza).

 

[Thrudgelmir2333]

I think the capital of Algarve should be Lagos, and I would trade Talavera or Guadalajara for Plasencia since I think the province of Extremadura/Caceres looks far too blocky (though Toledo was pretty bad too, so I see the appeal in Talvera). Great map otherwise. (edit: oh, and like others have mentioned, the borders of Evora should be adjusted to include Olivenza).

If someone shows me a division line for Plasencia and Caceres that looks non-border-gore-ish and appropriate, I'll not only add it in but group the whole thing together as its own region separate from Léon.

 

[Afonso de Albuquerque]

If someone shows me a division line for Plasencia and Caceres that looks non-border-gore-ish and appropriate, I'll not only add it in but group the whole thing together as its own region separate from Léon.

I like the way it looks in the map from @navaluiki , basically just split along the Tagus. Would also make it possible to have the Tagus be a nice looking border for an Al-Andaluz for example.

 

[Anarchya]

MEIOU mod? I'd play that then XD

 

[tommassi]

The Beyond Typus mod also has many more provinces than vanilla. I usually play that mod. Closer to what many posters here would like, but also with many more provinces elsewhere in Europe to keep balance.

 

[navaluiki]

The Beyond Typus mod also has many more provinces than vanilla. I usually play that mod. Closer to what many posters here would like, but also with many more provinces elsewhere in Europe to keep balance.

That's what I want. Having more provinces in Iberia, buy without unbalancing Europe (thus adding more content in regions like Southern France, both regions deserve more provinces)

 

[Afonso de Albuquerque]

The Beyond Typus mod also has many more provinces than vanilla. I usually play that mod. Closer to what many posters here would like, but also with many more provinces elsewhere in Europe to keep balance.

Yes, I also think this a wasted opportunity to add more provinces for other regions close to Iberia. South France and South Italy in particular could use a facelift and an Iberia Immersion Pack seemed like a great excuse to do it. The Maghreb is getting a few new provinces, but could easily accommodate many more.

 

[navaluiki]

I like the way it looks in the map from @navaluiki , basically just split along the Tagus. Would also make it possible to have the Tagus be a nice looking border for an Al-Andaluz for example.

Thanks for refering to my map. I actually followed both geographic an historical reasons ( My Plasencia is basically the real region of Plasencia plus Alcantara north of the Tagus).

 

[Anarchya]

Portugal is very underrated in the game... Not enough provinces... (at least 12/13 in the mainland) we start the game losing money.. destroy 2 forts of 4 that we got (Lisbon, Évora, Tangiers and/or Ceuta). Disband some armies 'till u start collecting some profit... and wait till you start colonization. The game give us the chance to have 3 colonilists but try to have the three working at same time... we need provinces and devolpment to survive.. one more time: 12/13 in mainland. That's the point! Looks like we can't be real like it was.. Fort in Mazagão? In Goa? Díu? Damão? Forts among the "Portuguese Africa"? Like Cachéu.. Mina.. São João de Ajudá (Whydah in the game) In Angola.. Moçambique, Gorgora Nova in Ethiopia... Few others in Arabia... Simply forget it. If we start playing after 1700's the just check the country as long as we play other countries. Lose everything normally. No Macau, no Goa, no Damão, etc... It's underrated. Simply like this. Then you see it losing provinces to Spain, UK or France easily.. not enough defenses along the borders in mainland (at least to make it harder the conquest), no profit.. Bah

 

[Franciscus123]

Updated Version:

1. Added city placement corrections for Algarve and Lisbon and city placement for new provinces (Blue dots)
2. Corrected names for Mérida, Talavera
3. Added Segovia
4. Fixed boundaries of Minho and Setúbal according to suggestions

Regions & TG:
Beiras: Minho (wine/grain) , Porto CLOTH, Bragança wine, Beira wine)
Center: Lisbon fish, Coimbra grain, Ribatejo grain, Azores (cattle/fish)
Alentejo: Setubal salt, Evora wine, Beja cattle, Algarve fish
Macaronesia: Madeira sugar, Lanzarote sugar, Tenerife sugar, La Palma sugar
Strategic Stuff (Portugal):

1. Strait between Lisbon and Setúbal, both separated by Ribatejo;
2. Shared Guadiana modifier between Huelva and Algarve (5 points for each)
3. Castles in Évora (elvas) and Bragança (replacing Lisbon)
4. 'Gulf of Cadiz' renamed to 'Cape St.Vicent/ Vicentine Coast/Southern Lusitanian Sea'
   
5. Chesapeake forwards to Seville
   
6. For people asking about giving Setúbal an estuary; the salt trade good modifier already boosts trade in the province.

Strategic Stuff (Castille&Aragon):

1. Badajoz borders drawn to prevent border gore when annexed by either Léon or Portugal without Mérida or, alternatively, when annexed with Huelva instead;
2. Xátiva and Valencia now directly bordered by the river;
3. Estuary in Seville renamed to "Guadalquivir"

Alright, guys, tear it apart

Looks pretty good like this tbh. And sorry salt is not trade at all, don't know why I thought it was.

 

[Mutagen_Prime]

Portugal is very underrated in the game... Not enough provinces... (at least 12/13 in the mainland) we start the game losing money.. destroy 2 forts of 4 that we got (Lisbon, Évora, Tangiers and/or Ceuta). Disband some armies 'till u start collecting some profit... and wait till you start colonization. The game give us the chance to have 3 colonilists but try to have the three working at same time... we need provinces and devolpment to survive.. one more: time 12/13 in mainland. That's the point! Looks like we can't be real like it was.. Fort in Mazagão? In Goa? Díu? Damão? Forts among the "Portuguese Africa"? Like Cachéu.. Mina.. São João de Ajudá (Whydah in the game) In Angola.. Moçambique, Gorgora Nova in Ethiopia... Few others in Arabia... Simply forget it. If we start playing after 1700's the just check the country as long as we play other countries. Lose everything normally. No Macau, no Goa, no Damão, etc... It's underrated. Simply like this. Then you see it losing provinces to Spain, UK or France easily.. not enough defenses along the borders in mainland (at least to make it harder the conquest), no profit.. Bah

And to the dev's credit, they could just as easily solve all those problems by giving the Portuguese a -50% fort maintenance tradition, a colonial maintenance cost reduction national idea, etc. Fingers crossed there is at least some form of mechanic in place to give Portugal a quasi-competitive economy (if we don't get Setubal and whatnot instead.)

 

[Thrudgelmir2333]

Okay, edited the post with new version that has Extremadura split into Plasencia and Cáceres with cities placed.

If no one else has objections, then we'll move on to region divisions, so feel free to raise hell if you have anything to object, add in, etc. Including strategic stuff. Frankly, I'm a bit on the fence about dividing Extremadura to begin with.

Edit: forgot to change the Algarve capital thing. Will check it later.

 

[Anarchya]

And to the dev's credit, they could just as easily solve all those problems by giving the Portuguese a -50% fort maintenance tradition, a colonial maintenance cost reduction national idea, etc. Fingers crossed there is at least some form of mechanic in place to give Portugal a quasi-competitive economy (if we don't get Setubal and whatnot instead.)

Even our oversea's provinces.. In Goa you can only build 2 buildings + university.. what? GOA? Goa was the center of the Portuguese India.. the capital of the Portuguese Viceroyalty in India.. We built 1 fort (the portuguese fort that still exists there) and what more? 1 Grand Shipyard? 1 Cathedral? (that still exists there)... Build the Trade Station? The Stock Exchange?.. Same about Díu and Damão and these provinces has also still there the portuguese forts... Mascate in Omã, the Fortress of Mascate, built by the portuguese is an Omani Nation Building now, in the capital, Mascate, but even that provice is so under developed in game.. Ormuz is fine I think, also still exists "our" fortress there.. Like Gorgora Nova in Ethiopia.. Malacca is ok too I think, but could be possible to built 4 buildings + university! I think we can build 3+University. Macau is ok too I think, but game ignores the fact that we got it from an agreenment betwen Portugal and the Chinese Emperor in 1553/54 (if I'm not mistaken).. In game it happens in the 1700's (?) and China want's Macau back.. ofc, war betwen Portugal and China, and what happens? Portugal loses the province ofc.. In game we never "control" Nagasaki in Japan to the built the Nagasaki's Port (THIS HAPPENED).. showing the good relations betwen Portugal and Japan thru the trade agreenments betwen both nations being Portugal the first european country to reach Japan (THIS REALY HAPPENED TOO).. Underrated "all the time".. lack of provinces and not enough development...

 

[Thrudgelmir2333]

Even our oversea's provinces.. In Goa you can only build 2 buildings + university.. what? GOA? Goa was the center of the Portuguese India.. the capital of the Portuguese Viceroyalty in India.. We built 1 fort (the portuguese fort that still exists there) and what more? 1 Grand Shipyard? 1 Cathedral? (that still exists there)... Build the Trade Station? The Stock Exchange?.. Same about Díu and Damão and these provinces has also still there the portuguese forts... Mascate in Omã, the Fortress of Mascate, built by the portuguese is an Omani Nation Building now, in the capital, Mascate, but even that provice is so under developed in game.. Ormuz is fine I think, also still exists "our" fortress there.. Like Gorgora Nova in Ethiopia.. Malacca is ok too I think, but could be possible to built 4 buildings + university! I think we can build 3+University. Macau is ok too I think, but game ignores the fact that we got it from an agreenment betwen Portugal and the Chinese Emperor in 1553/54 (if I'm not mistaken).. In game it happens in the 1700's (?) and China want's Macau back.. ofc, war betwen Portugal and China, and what happens? Portugal loses the province ofc.. In game we never "control" Nagasaki in Japan to the built the Nagasaki's Port (THIS HAPPENED).. showing the good relations betwen Portugal and Japan thru the trade agreenments betwen both nations being Portugal the first european country to reach Japan (THIS REALY HAPPENED TOO).. Underrated "all the time".. lack of provinces and not enough development...

Technically it should be possible for PT to get Macau through Charter Purchase now..... except the Devs also made it totally impossible anyway to buy anything from China, not to mention the mechanic itself is a bit broken (talk about free-for-all)

 

[Mingmung]

@neondt any update for us yet? Or some more information?

 

[HottestRod]

Dropping here just to tell you all how please we are with all the feedback you've given! We have tweaked and changed a few things here and there, and we are pleased with the result. Bare in mind that it was very hard to act upon 54 pages of suggestions (there are so many factors to take into account when redrawing a map, especially in terms of game balance). We sincerely appreciate your input on the subject!

Stayed tuned because more map changes will be coming up in a future DD!

Here is the final result for Iberia! Kudos to @neondt for this great job!

 

[Afonso de Albuquerque]

This is the same map from 28 pages ago, right?

I've taken a look at city positioning as well as a few other matters. First though I'd like to quote this post by @Trin Tragula which explains some of the reasoning behind such things:



The short version is that city positioning and province shapes aren't entirely a matter of historical geography. With that said, here's how Iberia is looking on my personal build right now. Once again, nations are released for the sake of example.

View attachment 409932