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HoI 4 Dev Diary - Policing Garrison Rework

Its Wednesday, so you know what that means. Today we will discuss a feature previously alluded to, the Policing Garrison rework.

The main thrust of this rework is the removal of the resistance suppression garrison mission from the map, and the addition of off-map suppression garrisons. This change is being made to increase performance, as well as remove what we feel is a tedious part of the game. Suppression garrison forces will now be managed through occupation laws and a choice in what division template will be used to provide suppression. The system will then distribute manpower and equipment to states with resistance. The old, defense-related, garrison missions will persist and will be named to “Area Defense.” This should result in a much cleaner map endgame. No more prebuilding and shuffling around horseybois.

DD_GARRISON_06.png


This feature is tied heavily to the rework of resistance. As we mentioned previously, resistance will no longer be so easily controlled. Active resistance will regularly attack defense forces and disrupt their local state. These attacks will result in a small but continuous loss in manpower and equipment. This should help to curb the power of a world conquest run (IE historical Germany).

DD_GARRISON_01.png


The higher the resistance level, the higher the suppression requirement. Suppression requirement is the main factor that controls how much garrison is needed. A secondary factor that controls how much garrison is needed is the occupation law. Different occupation laws will have modifications to suppression needs per for each percent of resistance. And finally, the player will be able to choose what type of garrison template they are using.

DD_GARRISON_03.png


The player will be able to design garrison forces as they always have, using the division designer. All existing templates available for recruitment will also be available to assign as a division template. The template being used will be able to be controlled at the national level, occupied nation level, and state level. A state may in turn use fractions of a division to meet suppression requirements.

DD_GARRISON_02.png


To manage these interactions, we have expanded the occupied territories menu to give a breakdown on resistance, compliance, and what forces the player has stationed in occupied territory they control. In the same menu the player can choose occupation law, and what division template is being used for policing garrison work. Different requirements in manpower and equipment will be shown when choosing which template to use. The player may choose to have no garrison present as well, but this will result in a huge boost to local resistance.

DD_GARRISON_04.png


When designing garrison templates, there will be a couple of factors to consider. Some existing battalions will have their suppression values reworked and battalions with hardness will have bonus to resisting damage taken from resistance activity. The result of this is that battalions with hardness will be more expensive materially, but provide protection for your manpower. If manpower is more of a long-term concern than production, there is a benefit to using battalions with hardness. If manpower is not a concern, using low hardness battalions in your division template is probably a good idea. This will also give some new life to light tanks that have found themselves collecting dust in your stockpile

That's all for this week. See youse guys next week.
 
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We did see a tease of Armored Car Designer...
Yes, but IIRC it was a tank designer, so probably just different bonuses/penalties (i.e., reduced cost, hard attack, and hardness)
 
i dont get it ... so garisson forces will no longer be visible on the map ? how will we know where are they ? i am confused ...
If I'm reading this right, you designate a template to be used for garrison divisions, and then based on your per-country occupation policy, garrison divisions are automatically "deployed" so that your suppression needs are 100% filled.
 
If I'm reading this right, you designate a template to be used for garrison divisions, and then based on your per-country occupation policy, garrison divisions are automatically "deployed" so that your suppression needs are 100% filled.
So these garisson / police divisions are not visible on map nor can we move them around ?
 
On the subject of horses can you make the AI smarter with templates, countries like the USA, Britain and France should be making an effort to mechanize these divisions as the war goes on
 
So these garisson / police divisions are not visible on map nor can we move them around ?
Correct. It's probably better to think of them as suppression/garrison forces and not divisions. The amount of required manpower and equipment is fluid and flows in/out of the stockpile automatically. It's not mentioned in the diary, but one would think that they will design some method of setting a priority for the manpower and equipment.
 
I love how a game mechanics debate on these forums quickly turns into an informative historical discussion.
Thanks in particular to FOARP and ossiv for filling in gaps in my understanding of German garrisons!
 
So if France is garrisoned with 7 divisions worth of light infantry, will the allies have to fight these guys?

It would be bad if there is no way to put the deployed garrisons "on the map" if necessary.
 
Great news, ETO had a version of this but not as extensive. How do this garrison units move around or arrive at their positions and are they combative when attacked by normal divisions.
 
So if France is garrisoned with 7 divisions worth of light infantry, will the allies have to fight these guys?

It would be bad if there is no way to put the deployed garrisons "on the map" if necessary.

This is what I am worried about. Before Germany became insanely overpowered you could D-Day with no resistance and literally just walk into Berlin. I hope this doesn't take us back to that. The garrisons in the screenshot don't look like they're going to put up much of a fight.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong but by the mid and late war period the German military was having to expend a lot of resources ands manpower to garrison all their occupied territories?
 
Cheers for the DD and extra info through the thread Bobby :D New system looks very good - a much easier way to manage resistance with just as much cost, but a whole lot less busywork :).

As for a naval pic, river gunboats were used, particularly (but not only) in China by Japan to help keep the peace in provinces that the IJA had overrun. Here's the river gunboat Toba, that spent most of the latter half of the war on the lower Yangtze.

But no, I'm not arguing for the inclusion of river gunboats in HoI4 :eek: Although I'm not suggesting they shouldn't be in HoI4 either :D.

Japanese_gunboat_Toba_1935.jpg
 
This is what I am worried about. Before Germany became insanely overpowered you could D-Day with no resistance and literally just walk into Berlin. I hope this doesn't take us back to that. The garrisons in the screenshot don't look like they're going to put up much of a fight.

could use a similar system for land and naval forts. they could at least stall an enemy advance or landing force. I guess kinda like EU4 forts.
 
So one thing that occurred to me:

1. You can limit divisions to use certain weapons
2. Certain weapons may not be available
3. Lack of weapons doesn't currently affect a division's suppression capability (this info via @Secret Master )

Would this mean that:

4. You could suppress resistance without costing you weapons? Just restrict garrison divisions to infantry weapons that you don't actually have in numbers.

Why would you suppress with equipment you dont have? You're just going to bleed manpower and surely less men means less suppression and now you're in a vicious cycle until your men get the guns you need.
 
If I'm reading this right, you designate a template to be used for garrison divisions, and then based on your per-country occupation policy, garrison divisions are automatically "deployed" so that your suppression needs are 100% filled.
From the screen shots, it is per state not per country, but the rest sounds right.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong but by the mid and late war period the German military was having to expend a lot of resources ands manpower to garrison all their occupied territories?

Germany nothing... Japan in China is where it hits. Japan never had less than 600,000 troops in China from 1937 onwards. Most of those troops were on garrison duty.

This also goes to the question of "Can you make the garrisons visible on the map?" In 1944, when the Japanese launched Ichi go, the way they amassed their half a million troops was by taking a lot of North China garrison units off of garrison duty and making them active field forces.
 
From a usability point of view, this game is already really confusing for new people. Moving another mechanic off-screen and deep into some abstract menus probably adds more strategy and less micro, but also more hours spent watching YouTube videos to learn how to play (as well as potential frustration about being impacted by invisible mechanics).

IIRC, some of the principles involved are called 'visibility of system status' and 'recognition rather than recall' in HCI
 
So if France is garrisoned with 7 divisions worth of light infantry, will the allies have to fight these guys?

It would be bad if there is no way to put the deployed garrisons "on the map" if necessary.

There does seem to be some kind of “spawn divisions across an area” command in the HOI4 code, since this is basically what happens when a civil war starts. Maybe some kind of automatic or player-triggered deployment of the divisions in the security pool when the area they are defending is attacked can occur. At the very least, if you lose an area you were occupying, something should happen to the divisions that were doing it!

I don’t agree with the poster above who criticised this update, but it did leave a lot of questions unanswered.
 
Nice change. Indeed, currently in the late game something like 50% or more of my army is only there for policing.