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HOI4 Dev Diary - Amphibious Vehicles and Research

Hi everyone! Another wednesday means its diary time! Today we will be talking about some quite big balance changes to tech as well as some new... watery toys :)

Amphibious Armored Vehicles

With Man the Guns we are adding two new classes of vehicles. Amphibious Tractors (AMTRACs) and Amphibious Tanks. AMTRACs were built in large quantities and used both in the Pacific by US Marines with good success as well as in Europe during major river crossings such as the Allied crossing of the Rhine. An AMTRAC is a amphibious tracked vehicle that offers soldiers protection, and depending on model, firepower when conducting landings.

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For heavier armor and firepower, amphibious tanks were developed. The allies used quite a lot of the Duplex Drive Shermans during D-Day. The idea was that the tanks would swim to the beach, then drive on to assault the German fortifications. The Sherman DD itself had some design problems, as it was designed for only 30cm high waves… which aren't exactly rare at sea. Many of them were also unloaded from their landing ships much too far out and sunk in the waves. Some beaches had good results, but for example Omaha beach was a disaster where most of them were lost. The Germans also planned for tanks for Operation Sealion, but experimented with snorkels and driving along the bottom instead. These were instead used during Barbarossa. The Japanese went more in the direction of attachable “flotation parts” with the Ka-Mi and Ka-chi tanks, making them look like tiny little warships. They never got the same large scale testings as the American tanks, but to me at least, seem to have been a more reasonable technical solution.

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These things combined means that you can design divisions to punch through heavily defended landing sites. Quite useful late game! These divisions are also great for when the enemy has fortified across a large river. On the flip side they are quite expensive to make, less fuel efficient and a little slower for what you get so you should have some plan for them before investing. Amphibious vehicle battalions also use your special forces limit, just like marines.

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Man the Guns comes with 10 unique 3d models for the amphibious tanks:
mtg_amphibious_eng_sov.png

mtg_amphibious_ger.png

mtg_amphibious_usa_generic.png

mtg_amphibious_jap.png


The mechanized infantry AMTRACs can be found in the Infantry tech tab while the Amphibious tanks are a branch of light tanks (the tier 2 amphibious tanks are close in stats to the 1939 medium tanks):

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Research Changes
We are changing up some things when it comes to technologies as well. Because we have been steadily adding more, and are adding a bunch more with Man the Guns, we will be adjusting the base research speed to be faster. Probably something like +10%, but we haven’t locked that down yet.

We are also changing how the formula works for calculating how long it takes to research things. Instead of a research bonus lowering the cost of the research, bonuses now affect the speed of research. This means that an old -50% cost modifier is roughly the same as a +100% speed modifier now. I say roughly because speed modifiers stack a lot better and in less odd ways when there are many of them. This essentially means that you can no longer get instant techs by stacking various modifiers, just really fast research.

We have also changed how ahead of time works and the Ahead of Time Bonuses from focuses etc. no longer give you a percentage off, but a number of years off. This is important because it makes certain tech rush strategies where you simply bypass much of the tree by chaining ahead of time bonuses not work. We feel that these things will make things play a lot saner, and stop ahead of time researching to be banned in some MP groups ;)
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The other change we are doing is to allow certain techs to get a bonus from XP. All doctrines as well as certain modules like torpedoes get a research boost when spending XP on them. This does two things for us: On the one hand we are not happy that one of your research slots is basically always locked to land doctrine research, and also the fact that we don’t really want nations to have maxed out their doctrines by the start of the war. So doctrines now get a bit slower to research, but by spending XP (benefitting the nations we want to have an edge here, like the axis) you will be researching faster than before. The other thing is to model certain stuff that were notoriously hard to get working right, like torpedoes, which for some periods of time had something like a majority failing to actually detonate when hitting a target. We want nations who get to see action here or dedicate training time on it to have a bit more of an edge.
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That’s it for this time! Do not miss that we are starting streaming of Man the Guns gameplay today, so tune in to see the new USA tree at 16:00 CET at https://www.twitch.tv/paradoxinteractive
 
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@podcat
An idea linked to naval warfare:
Could it be possible and not too harsh to get intel about where the ennemies fleet are deployed from?

Like when the mouse is over airplanes it tells how many planes from which countries is commited on a friendly airbase.
Then we should have a estimations of the number of ennemies ships (at least big ones) attached to this port.

It could help a lot to allocate ressources more efficiently. (Like black sea/baltic/murmansk for soviet)
 
No. Paradoxally, US doesn't have Marine tech I researched in 1936, which is a non-sense.

OK, I could have been more clear here. Yes, you have to research the Marine I 1936 tech. When I said "from Day 1", what I meant was that Americans have always had the ability to get Marines.

If that's what the OP is saying, just that they should have the 1936 tech researched pre-game, then I agree with that. It sounded like he was saying they couldn't get Marines at all.
 
The mechanized infantry AMTRACs can be found in the Infantry tech tab while the Amphibious tanks are a branch of light tanks (the tier 2 amphibious tanks are close in stats to the 1939 medium tanks):

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View attachment 408181
These are nice additions, but wouldn't the amphibious tanks be better as sub-techs, maybe requiring a gateway tech or techs (in the same way that truck-mounted rocket artillery does)? Most of the amphibious tanks were based on an existing tank model - even early examples like the floatation pods and outboard motors for Vickers Light tanks (so maybe light tank versions should be possible, too?) And what about heavies? Deep wading Tigers were a thing...

The other change we are doing is to allow certain techs to get a bonus from XP. All doctrines as well as certain modules like torpedoes get a research boost when spending XP on them. This does two things for us: On the one hand we are not happy that one of your research slots is basically always locked to land doctrine research, and also the fact that we don’t really want nations to have maxed out their doctrines by the start of the war. So doctrines now get a bit slower to research, but by spending XP (benefitting the nations we want to have an edge here, like the axis) you will be researching faster than before. The other thing is to model certain stuff that were notoriously hard to get working right, like torpedoes, which for some periods of time had something like a majority failing to actually detonate when hitting a target. We want nations who get to see action here or dedicate training time on it to have a bit more of an edge.
This seems to be a nice, coded implementation of what I made a rather cludgy system to handle in the Waltzing Matilda mod; how moddable will the system be? Does it work with modifiiers for a base speed?
 
As far as I appreciate additions to the game... I feel adding amphibious tanks is a strange decisions.
I agree with @Balesir that these amphibious vehicles should be sub-techs of the main ones (trucks, tanks, mechanized...).

However, these forums are filled with excellent suggestions and proposed corrections of errors.
For example, I would suggest :
- make convoys and invasion ships different types of equipments, so that without LST, your naval invasions are very limited.
- adapt the land battle 'combat tactics' idea to naval battles. This could be coded to allow much better behaviour of ships : for example, exchange of fire between lines of Capital Ships, with screens laying smoke. The current system is hard coded, everyone running full steam ahead towards the enemy and capital ships shooting at screens... Tactics could be chosen by the Admiral, based on his traits and quality of intel : targeting could be prioritized and distance to the perceived strongest ship would be adjusted.

But OK, cool, we have a focus tree for Netherlands and amphibious tanks. I assume a modder could do these, but only a dev could change game mechanics, like the above proposal.
I am a bit disappointed as a customer, to be honest.

Malick
 
Yes, but not all of us have time to be modders. I have tried modding a Star Wars game for the last few years and honestly - i get about 30 minutes a week because of real life. So roll on with Man The Guns and all this 'so-called modding' work. Cos it's a darn site better than what most of us can manage to do.
 
My only gripe is that perhaps every major country unit should have 3D models before you start adding more units. Jet fighters still look like propeller planes if memory serves.

These are nice additions, but wouldn't the amphibious tanks be better as sub-techs, maybe requiring a gateway tech or techs (in the same way that truck-mounted rocket artillery does)? Most of the amphibious tanks were based on an existing tank model - even early examples like the floatation pods and outboard motors for Vickers Light tanks (so maybe light tank versions should be possible, too?) And what about heavies? Deep wading Tigers were a thing...
Agree 100%, but I wonder if they're reluctant to do it this way because it would require them to make a new amphibious model for every single tank.
 
Will there be a max battalion cap for those amphibious? If not, will the cap on marines be removed?

As so far key research elements as the Refugee Scientists are going to be made insignificant in their current shape, can we hope their effect is going to be boosted or at least they are going to be cheaper?
 
Anybody notice that the USA flag has changed? Or is that just me? Looks like they have new US flags or when you grant statehood to Alaska and ect?
Anybody else say and thinking this, or is it just me?
 
Please apply your logic regarding doctrines and torpedoes to carriers:

VICTORIA 3! VICTORIA 3! VICTORIA 3! VICTORIA 3!
HAHAHAHAHHA ;D
 
I haven't had the time to review all the dev diaries, but of the ones I see, it seems that there is a greater focus on adding features than improving AI. Right now, the game does not have a functioning AI. AI divisions are not designed efficiently, and in waging war it is disproportionately easy for the player to roll through enemy divisions without resistance.

I don't have any DLC, and I'm concerned that by adding new things like amphibious vehicles, it is only worsening the AI's ability to compete. How will they be able to efficiently use the new features if they cannot even use the ones included in the original game? Is this game meant to be played multiplayer? I've been very disappointed compared to how games like EU4 progressed, where AI issues on release were given adequate improvement in a relatively short time frame, before focusing on adding a bunch of new systems or reworking old ones.