HOI4 Dev Diary - Back from summer!

[TalyonUngol]

I think best option would be like Russian Empire in TGW mod: you need to lose x important victory points in italic peninsula and then it triggers.

__________

One problem I see with a teorical Italian Alt path is that you start with Ethiopian War already started, don't know what will happen and if it will be reworked.

Then thats fine. If you get invaded, you get a civil war, but Civil War off the back or in the middle of having a war would only make Italy even more unplayable than it is right now.

 

[Reinner]

Then thats fine. If you get invaded, you get a civil war, but Civil War off the back or in the middle of having a war would only make Italy even more unplayable than it is right now.

Unplayable?
They have no debuffs, penalties or any starting problems…

Italy had issues with mobilization, airforce, limited ammount of industry, lack of resources and the fact that their army was equipped worse than they were during Great War. I won't even go into the political struggle and problems they were facing during interwar period and later during the WWII. Italy is overpowered at the moment, they can completely dominate on almost same level as Germany does.

 

[TalyonUngol]

Unplayable?
They have no debuffs, penalties or any starting problems…

Italy had issues with mobilization, airforce, limited ammount of industry, lack of resources and the fact that their army was equipped worse than they were during Great War. I won't even go into the political struggle and problems they were facing during interwar period and later during the WWII. Italy is overpowered at the moment, they can completely dominate on almost same level as Germany does.

And as they are now, they are one of the worst major nations in the game besides France. Actually, they are the worst major nation besides France.

LOL On the same level as Germany. BAHAHAHA. Not even close. Italy has nothing on Germany. Italy has MUCH less manpower, much less expansion options, worse economy, less land, and isn't stuck landlocked like they are.

 

[Duke_Dave]

No clue about air rework. I hope for Middle East minor countries in the DLC.

 

[Reinner]

And as they are now, they are one of the worst major nations in the game besides France. Actually, they are the worst major nation besides France.

LOL On the same level as Germany. BAHAHAHA. Not even close. Italy has nothing on Germany. Italy has MUCH less manpower, much less expansion options, worse economy, less land, and isn't stuck landlocked like they are.

I would take Italy over a country like Soviet Union that has two focuses that do nothing and force you too wait for 210 days any day of the week, but that's just my opinion.

You didn't understand my point that i brought up, yes Italy has less manpower but nothing stops you from increasing it, they had no tanks and their airforce was practically non-existent while in game you can produce them since day 1, do you get my point? They have no penalties when it comes to the stuff like that would prevent you or at least slow you down which is the reason why Italy was performing so bad, for example in every single game i see them steamrollling through the Alps when they attack France which is something they should not be able to do. It also makes sense they have less expansion options, because aside from Ethiopia and Albania they didn't do anything else before they entered the war (also nothing stops you from manualy justifying your war goal)

FYI they are also not a landlocked country, a landlocked country is Mengjiang (Mengkukuo) that is a puppet, cannot expand without foreign powers intervening and has no access to the sea. Last time i checked Italy has none of those issues, every single one of your neighbours is opened for you to justify war goal on them from day 1 and you can easily expand.

 

[TalyonUngol]

I would take Italy over a country like Soviet Union that has two focuses that do nothing and force you too wait for 210 days any day of the week, but that's just my opinion.

You didn't understand my point that i brought up, yes Italy has less manpower but nothing stops you from increasing it, they had no tanks and their airforce was practically non-existent while in game you can produce them since day 1, do you get my point? They have no penalties when it comes to the stuff like that would prevent you or at least slow you down which is the reason why Italy was performing so bad, for example in every single game i see them steamrollling through the Alps when they attack France which is something they should not be able to do. It also makes sense they have less expansion options, because aside from Ethiopia and Albania they didn't do anything else before they entered the war (also nothing stops you from manualy justifying your war goal)

FYI they are also not a landlocked country, a landlocked country is Mengjiang (Mengkukuo) that is a puppet, cannot expand without foreign powers intervening and has no access to the sea. Last time i checked Italy has none of those issues, every single one of your neighbours is opened for you to justify war goal on them from day 1 and you can easily expand.

They do not steam roll through the alps. Germany steam rolls... Italy does not. I dont know what single player you've played, but ive never seen them 'steam' roll. Germany usually capitulates France by the time Italy gets past the second or third port.

And who cares if Italy is better in a GAME than they were historically. making them worse will just make them even more unplayable than they are now.

Italy right now is in a very bad spot as one of the worst majors to play. I dare say if it wasn't for the RNG componets of Hungary forming AH, AH would be superior to Italy.

Italy gets nothing with their focus tree thats any good. Their focus tree is god awful, their alt-history path is probably the worst in the game.

And I mean land locked within the med. They can't do anything unless they take Gib or Egypt, and Italy players abandon Africa because theres really no strategic value outside of Egypt.

Italy is so bad, I don't even let them live in my single player matches as Germany. As soon as I take down UK, I either immediatly remove USA from teh match, or remove Italy and take their land. They are absolutely atrocious to have on your side. They don't do anything significant for you.

And you have the balls to demand Italy becomes even WORSE than they are now and make them even more unplayable as a major?

And I rather play Italy over Soviet Union too.... but only because Soviets don't interest me right now. I'd like to see them get an update myself, but I rather Italy become playable first and foremost since Italy is first nation I touched since the beginning, ever since I learned you could recreate the Roman Empire. I was like, Ok thats fucking cool.

I used to play Total War: Rome 2 alot and the Romans were always something I played... well sometimes Sparta.

Point is, Italy right now, is not a very good nation to play. Their focus tree is lackluster, they are way too limited in their options compared to Germany or UK. Even USA facist path is better than Italy, but thats because USA is a powerhouse. I'd say even Japan is more fun to play with more options, though since im terrible at naval invasions, I dont play them lmao. Might try again sometime but thats not the piont of this.


Italy is a bad nation to play right now, being heavily limited in options. They have a good economy and a decent army, but the alps limit their movements, the world tension limits them, their focus tree is HORRIBLE.

This game is not a 100% historical simulator. It never should be, otherwise, why would anyone play anything but the allies. The game has to be balanced, otherwise its not a game. Its a chore. Making Italy worse will only limit the game more than it is now.

 

[NormieCamo]

unplayable

Many people have explained to you now how to play Italy and why Italy shouldn't be stronger, but you just keep posting the same arguments. Unironically just git gud.

 

[TalyonUngol]

Many people have explained to you now how to play Italy and why Italy shouldn't be stronger, but you just keep posting the same arguments. Unironically just git gud.

And if I play Germany, I'll squash an Italy player *Shrug*

Don't tell me the nation is good when its the second to worst of all the majors. Just because you can conquer the world as Luxemborg, doesn't mean its a good nation.

And I've played Italy and done very well, doesn't mean its good and Ive never asked for it to be better except through its focus which is crap.

So by this logic, France shouldn't get any better! Or any nation. You can conquer the world as the soviets so I guess they shouldn't get anything.

Whelp, tiem to revert all the focus trees back to Vanilla, as you can conquer the world as any nation.

Bye bye all other focus trees

 

[--Yigito123--]

And if I play Germany, I'll squash an Italy player *Shrug*

Don't tell me the nation is good when its the second to worst of all the majors. Just because you can conquer the world as Luxemborg, doesn't mean its a good nation.

And I've played Italy and done very well, doesn't mean its good and Ive never asked for it to be better except through its focus which is crap.

So by this logic, France shouldn't get any better! Or any nation. You can conquer the world as the soviets so I guess they shouldn't get anything.

With your logic, since Luxembourg can't 1v1 defeat Germany when both sides are played by a player, I guess Luxembourg needs a massive buff to make that possible. Or maybe Manchukuo should get a massive buff so a player Manchukuo can easily declare independence and repel the Japanese player from the mainland by themselves.

Seriously, are you arguing that Italy being unable to annex Germany in PvP is wrong or bad?

 

[Lucas Lima]

There seems to be some confusion here. Are you guys discussing a stronger Italy (improved industrial output, manpower, initial techs or something like that) or a more insteresting gameplay-wise Italy (which may, but not necessarily - actually, even the opposite could happen - imply in a stronger Italy)?

 

[TalyonUngol]

With your logic, since Luxembourg can't 1v1 defeat Germany when both sides are played by a player, I guess Luxembourg needs a massive buff to make that possible. Or maybe Manchukuo should get a massive buff so a player Manchukuo can easily declare independence and repel the Japanese player from the mainland by themselves.

Seriously, are you arguing that Italy being unable to annex Germany in PvP is wrong or bad?

Then why Play italy at all.

You really dont know human nature. This game is absolutely compeititive, which is why you see so many rules when it comes to MP games. If a major nation isn't competitive, then why bother.

This is the same thing as why should Soviet Union get changed? It's a powerhouse itself as well... it's because its dull, boring, its focus tree is bad, and its not up to snuff compared to the current majors. Same with France.

 

[TalyonUngol]

There seems to be some confusion here. Are you guys discussing a stronger Italy (improved industrial output, manpower, initial techs or something like that) or a more insteresting gameplay-wise Italy (which may, but not necessarily - actually, even the opposite could happen - imply in a stronger Italy)?

I want a better focus tree. Im not asking for better industry, unless its given through by a focus tree.

Don't change the core of Italy, but make it better through its focus, like how every other nation was improved with its focus tree afaik.

And if the focus tree actualyl ends up making Italy WORSE than it already is, since it is one of the weaker majors, I probably wont touch this game or not buy the expansion/put the expansion down and not use it.I dont need one of my favorite nations to turn into more of a meme/a joke it already is.

Ive already made some good suggestions imo for a better Italy... and im more focused on the Italy First Branch.

im actualyl 100% ok with Italy being bad going the axis route, but its alt history route should improve it.

I think everyone can agree that this is a fair thing.

I want a better Italy first, as its a joke atm, and I also want a more african focused tree, because as it is, Italy players just abandon Africa as the only worth to it, is Egypt to get out of the med, and you can just focus on killing UK to gain access. Its what I do.


Again, a better italy in terms of its focus tree. Not industry or other changes. Just a better focus tree as the current one is laughable.

 

[Lucas Lima]

It is not clear to me what you mean by a better focus tree. What is that, a focus tree that grants Italy nations more bonuses?


I'm starting to get the feeling that you think every major nation should have somewhat similar importance / oportunities, which does not make sense to me at all. I mean, if you are only going to play a nation because it is the stronger one, or because it is as competitive as the others, then I think you are being the problem. I mean, why would anyone play some mid power instead of the majors, then? Let's never again touch them, because they will never be that important after all. Nations are different - the better the game, more unique they will be, in my opinion. I think balance should be thought in a faction sense, not in a nation sense. USA should always be stronger than UK, for instance - still, UK is key to shore the naval invasions, and so on. Italy should not be on the same level as Germany - it should be secondary to the axis, and, still, be vital (since, once allies get a food on Italy, things start to get grim for the axis powers).


[EDIT] I hadn't read your entire response, I guess. I can better understand what you mean now by a better focus tree. My bad.

 

[TalyonUngol]

It is not clear to me what you mean by a better focus tree. What is that, a focus tree that grants Italy nations more bonuses?


I'm starting to get the feeling that you think every major nation should have somewhat similar importance / oportunities, which does not make sense to me at all. I mean, if you are only going to play a nation because it is the stronger one, or because it is as competitive as the others, then I think you are being the problem. I mean, why would anyone play some mid power instead of the majors, then? Let's never again touch them, because they will never be that important after all. Nations are different - the better the game, more unique they will be, in my opinion. I think balance should be thought in a faction sense, not in a nation sense. USA should always be stronger than UK, for instance - still, UK is key to shore the naval invasions, and so on. Italy should not be on the same level as Germany - it should be secondary to the axis, and, still, be vital (since, once allies get a food on Italy, things start to get grim for the axis powers).

I'm FINE with the HISTORICAL ROUTE being this way. If you want Italy to remain the weak nation it is, second only to France, then fine... but people here whining and bitching about Soviet Union and France needing improvements is a joke then. I don't really care about historical routes. This game is not a historical simulator. Its not. If it was, Allies would win 100% of the time as thats history.


Im more interested in playing my own way, and conquering the world in Red or... uh tan? Its tan/brown for facism I guess? But yea, thats my goal.

Im not demanding that all nations be equal in a historical sense. Im asking for each nation to have simular opportunities. German's Alt history route is crap compraed to its historical imo... though there is a glitch around it.

UK's non historical route is actually EXTREMELY powerful either going with the king or facism. USA going facist is also extremely powerful. Hungarys Austria-Hungary makes it a power house.

Yes, this is alt history and I like alternate history. Who wouldn't want to rewrite history if they could? I know i owuld love to rewrite speific parts of history. Thats what makes Hoi4 for me so good. You have an option of playing your historical route, or alt-history which is also fun.

If you want to keep Italy the crappy nation it is right now, thats fine... but then I expect France's improvements not to actually improve but weaken them. Same for the Soviet Union.

And no, I actually dont want that. I think all nations can be improved and be closer to balance.

But I couldn't really care less about historical. I play to have fun and having 0 opportunities is not fun.

All I want is my Italy First route to actually be a benifiti, instead of a hinderance, just like multiple other nations alt-history routes are.

 

[Lucas Lima]

I'm FINE with the HISTORICAL ROUTE being this way. If you want Italy to remain the weak nation it is, second only to France, then fine... but people here whining and bitching about Soviet Union and France needing improvements is a joke then. I don't really care about historical routes. This game is not a historical simulator. Its not. If it was, Allies would win 100% of the time as thats history.


Im more interested in playing my own way, and conquering the world in Red or... uh tan? Its tan/brown for facism I guess? But yea, thats my goal.

Im not demanding that all nations be equal in a historical sense. Im asking for each nation to have simular opportunities. German's Alt history route is crap compraed to its historical imo... though there is a glitch around it.

UK's non historical route is actually EXTREMELY powerful either going with the king or facism. USA going facist is also extremely powerful. Hungarys Austria-Hungary makes it a power house.

Yes, this is alt history and I like alternate history. Who wouldn't want to rewrite history if they could? I know i owuld love to rewrite speific parts of history. Thats what makes Hoi4 for me so good. You have an option of playing your historical route, or alt-history which is also fun.

If you want to keep Italy the crappy nation it is right now, thats fine... but then I expect France's improvements not to actually improve but weaken them. Same for the Soviet Union.

And no, I actually dont want that. I think all nations can be improved and be closer to balance.

But I couldn't really care less about historical. I play to have fun and having 0 opportunities is not fun.

All I want is my Italy First route to actually be a benifiti, instead of a hinderance, just like multiple other nations alt-history routes are.

Now you lost it. The sutuation on the easrtern front couldn't be further from the historical reallity. Also, France falls around december 1939, when it should stand at least until mid 1940, like it actually happened. Nah, your comparison is not making sense now, mate - those adjustments required to URSS are needed to reflect the truth, not to ensure alt-history. I'm okay with you not caring about historical mode - I myself don't give a damn to alt-history at all, not the way it is seen usually - my ideal of alt-history is everything being the same it was, except for me. And, to be honest, the game is what it is because it has the historical thing on it - otherwise, most of us would hardly get into some random war simulator game, based on nothing.

 

[TalyonUngol]

Now you lost it. The sutuation on the easrtern front couldn't be further from the historical reallity. Also, France falls around december 1939, when it should stand at least until mid 1940, like it actually happened. Nah, your comparison is not making sense now, mate - those adjustments required to URSS are needed to reflect the truth, not to ensure alt-history. I'm okay with you not caring about historical mode - I myself don't give a damn to alt-history at all, not the way it is seen usually - my ideal of alt-history is everything being the same it was, except for me. And, to be honest, the game is what it is because it has the historical thing on it - otherwise, most of us would hardly get into some random war simulator game, based on nothing.

Ok so basically nerf axis and buff the allies. Ok then. Glad we got that out of the way. GG

 

[Lucas Lima]

Ok so basically nerf axis and buff the allies. Ok then. Glad we got that out of the way. GG

Well, as it currently stands, it is kinda what is needed, yeah. Axis is winning every single match I play on single player, and not by a single margin. Allies are unable to do any anphibious operation properly, and soviets are hopelessly weak.
I can totally agree with a more interesting gameplay-wise Italy, but you are not asking for that only, you want more power to Italy. That does not make sense to me. Adding challenge does, but adding power doesn't. My 2 cents.

 

[TalyonUngol]

Well, as it currently stands, it is kinda what is needed, yeah. Axis is winning every single match I play on single player, and not by a single margin. Allies are unable to do any anphibious operation properly, and soviets are hopelessly weak.
I can totally agree with a more interesting gameplay-wise Italy, but you are not asking for that only, you want more power to Italy. That does not make sense to me. Adding challenge does, but adding power doesn't. My 2 cents.

Wait what?

No. I mnot asking for only that. Theres many things I would like to see in the game. Number 1 being a better italy tree, number 2 being better Naval invasions across the board. WHy is it only Japan actually does good Naval invasions? USA and Uk should be able to. Not just Japan.

Number 3 being a better France tree. I wanna see a napleon conquest tree for Alt-history.

Number 4 being a better soviet tree. As it is, its boring.

Number 5 being a Greek Tree.

Number 6 being a Spanish tree.

number 7 being a Turkey tree.

Ive focused one one specific thing as its my favorite ,but theres MANY things I want to see for this game I want better AI period. You can never go wrong with better intelligence.

Number 8 being changes to certain focuses. It still pisses me off how bad Hungary's Austria-Hungary tree is. Why is it that Czech and Austira nad Romania's focuses are so heavily RNG focused? That makes me mad.

I would like more options in this game period, not juts the current Play Germany/Japan/America/UK or GTFO. And even then, I only play Uk for its alt-history. Its fun conquering the world as Great Britain lmao.

I want better trees for even the minros we already have trees for. I'd love to see an expanded tree for Hungary, Romania, Poland etc.

I think we might have gotten off on the wrong foot with this.



Im not asking for more POWER to Italy. Im asking for not such a crappy tree. Its entire tree down to pact with Germany is horrible. Im fine with that history side being that, but the alt history should have more things like an Aschuluss on Greece and a Demand Sudentland on Istanbul.

THAT would be cool for Italy First and wouldn't really make it overpowered.


I am against making Italy weaker and im against any buffs to its industry. But if the focus tree was better and gave you more options in what to do, and gave it slight changes? Sure.

Im not asking for a national buff like 10% attack. Im asking for better focus tree options, not the current crap we have now.

Do you understand what I mean now?

 

[Lucas Lima]

Wait what?

No. I mnot asking for only that. Theres many things I would like to see in the game. Number 1 being a better italy tree, number 2 being better Naval invasions across the board. WHy is it only Japan actually does good Naval invasions? USA and Uk should be able to. Not just Japan.

Number 3 being a better France tree. I wanna see a napleon conquest tree for Alt-history.

Number 4 being a better soviet tree. As it is, its boring.

Number 5 being a Greek Tree.

Number 6 being a Spanish tree.

number 7 being a Turkey tree.

Ive focused one one specific thing as its my favorite ,but theres MANY things I want to see for this game I want better AI period. You can never go wrong with better intelligence.

Number 8 being changes to certain focuses. It still pisses me off how bad Hungary's Austria-Hungary tree is. Why is it that Czech and Austira nad Romania's focuses are so heavily RNG focused? That makes me mad.

I would like more options in this game period, not juts the current Play Germany/Japan/America/UK or GTFO. And even then, I only play Uk for its alt-history. Its fun conquering the world as Great Britain lmao.

I want better trees for even the minros we already have trees for. I'd love to see an expanded tree for Hungary, Romania, Poland etc.

I think we might have gotten off on the wrong foot with this.



Im not asking for more POWER to Italy. Im asking for not such a crappy tree. Its entire tree down to pact with Germany is horrible. Im fine with that history side being that, but the alt history should have more things like an Aschuluss on Greece and a Demand Sudentland on Istanbul.

THAT would be cool for Italy First and wouldn't really make it overpowered.


I am against making Italy weaker and im against any buffs to its industry. But if the focus tree was better and gave you more options in what to do, and gave it slight changes? Sure.

Im not asking for a national buff like 10% attack. Im asking for better focus tree options, not the current crap we have now.

Do you understand what I mean now?

Well, with those I can agree without restrictions. Guess I misunderstood you badly before. Get it now.

 

[TalyonUngol]

Well, with those I can agree without restrictions. Guess I misunderstood you badly before. Get it now.

Actually. I'd go even further to restrict the alt history route. Forces you non aligned since roman Empire and it forces you to stat in your faction/bans you from joining one. That way you can't scum the game by joining Germany.