• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

HOI4 Dev Diary - Intel

Hi everyone! Next to last dev diary before christmas, and today we are going to talk about intel. We have been talking about ways to get intel a bit in previous diaries, like code cracking, scout planes and spies but not really talked about the system as a whole. So lets get to it!

Before intel was based essentially on comparing two nations crypto tech levels and it was a flat value covering everything. To make this more interesting we are splitting it into 4 separate values: Civilian/Industry Intel, Army Intel, Navy Intel, Air Intel. These affect what you can see in our new intel ledger, that replaces the little intel bit in the diplomacy interface from before for people with La Resistance:
upload_2019-12-11_12-24-29.png

Each of the tabs cover each type of intel (here we have civilian/industry selected), and they also come with mapmode information. As an example in the one above we aggregate building values as you zoom out (if you zoom in you see the same by state). This can help you when figuring out where to bomb or where and what kind of sabotage can be most effective.

The more intel you have the more information is displayed, we break down the levels in a tooltip per category:
upload_2019-12-11_12-37-57.png

So right now I can see how many army techs have been researched, but not specifically which. That requires 70% but then you can look at their tech tree. If I had 5% more I could see roughly how many of each division template the other nation had. At the moment I can only see that they exist but no real info about what they contain.

The army intel tab also lets you get a breakdown of the enemy stockpile of equipment.

Naval and air are similar:
upload_2019-12-11_12-44-10.png


upload_2019-12-11_12-44-42.png


Naval intel mapmode is quite powerful and at high intel levels will let you see where the enemy is placing certain missions
upload_2019-12-11_13-2-10.png


Intel can come from many different sources, for example:
- Spy networks
- Infiltrated spy assets
- Captured enemy spies
- Radar
- Broken Ciphers
- Scout planes
- Fighting the enemy in land combat
- Fighting the enemy in air combat
- Fighting the enemy in naval combat
And probably some I forgot.

Each source has a max it can contribute and may affect different intel values in different ways. For example if you have a spy network over the enemies coast, or scout naval areas with traffic you will get more naval intel. Each source also decays over time so its important to actively do things to keep your intel levels current and make sure you combine many sources to get as much intel as possible.

Here I have multiple sources:
upload_2019-12-11_13-17-34.png

Do note that the biggest chunk here is me doing some quick events with rewards of intel to cheat my way to quick screenshots ;). Also note that simply being democratic and having open trade laws make hiding the civilian part of your intel hard.

Knowing what kind of build strategy, templates, tech and stockpile an enemy has can be very useful allowing you to counter and attack them in the best way possible, but there is also direct advantage from relative intel which replaces the crypto level comparison from before.
upload_2019-12-11_13-35-41.png


See you next week for more cool stuff, and don't forget to tune into twitch at 16:00CET where we will be showing of France for the first time (aka watch Daniel accidentally leak stuff).
 
Last edited:
  • 1Like
Reactions:
We are discussing that one. I think either a game rules to block it to factions or we have the diplo action have to be approved by the sender before they can see the list
How about changing it so you can only choose the category and the receiver decides which specific gun/artillery/tank/plane/whatever from the category to offer, or to decline? (Like it's with asking for land-lease.) Though it should then also include stuff not yet unlocked by the target without auto-decline, so it wouldn't be obvious what stuff they didn't research.
 
I think the first DD that talked about spies, mentioned something about using counter intelligence operations to inflate (pun intended) divisions.
It doesn't just inflate the numbers, it actually creates 'fake' on map divisions (using existing templates) that can be seen and moved by their owner just like real divisions, but that will melt if they actually engage in combat.
 
At the moment it seems the spymaster gets 1 extra spy per country in the faction. If this includes government in exile the allies should be swimming in spies towards the end of the war.

That's a lot of counterspies to catch anything the axis try. (USSR is probably a bit screwed)
I'm pretty sure it was 1 per 2 countries in the faction, and for puppets they have to be a certain level of autonomy or higher (so no Integrated Puppets/Reichskommissariats providing extra spies to the Spymaster)
 
@podcat, more questions:

13. What about counter-espionage in regards to Intel? Will it be a simplistic system where counter-intel reduces your Intel %?? If so, would it be the same across the board (civ, naval, air, land)? Or are you going to challenge yourself, and let counter-intel also provide DISINFORMATION, which is a crucial role of any counter-intel organization. Turning enemy spys into double agents, leaking false info, etc, etc. This could auto-generate "false divisions", or create false aircraft counts at airfields, or generate false TFs in various sea regions having your enemy's navy chase ghosts across the globe. For such a system however its a tough question of what to do with disinformation possibilities: a) do you want to appear as strong as you are, but result in the units are in different locations b) do you want to appear stronger that you actually are? c) do you want to appear weaker than you actually are? And frankly, it depends on the theater and the situation, so such a system needs to be flexible to do a combination of all 3.

14. So, I saw in a previous post you said that you hadn't done much with the AI and the new Intel system...Uhg. However, @bitmode stated in a previous thread that in the old system the AI always has 100% Intel, and then uses a global "dumb factor" of NAI.FRONT_EVAL_UNIT_ACCURACY. Now, as simple change for the new system could be to a) make this "idiot factor" on a per country relation...costs you a few bytes of memory. b) the value of this would based on your Intel Level! Can that system atleast be put into action? Honestly, I don't know if EAI or other mods, or @bitmode has tried putting NAI.FRONT_EVAL_UNIT_ACCURACY to 100, and see if its more challenging or not.

15. What types of things can be modded with this new system? Will there be any type of array of provinces or states/searegions, that can be inspected for the real number of enemy units there? Or can all facets of the Intel Leger be accessed via scripting? This kind of stuff can making modding Intel quite nice....scripts can be written to adjust strategies or production based on Intel...you know, the kinda work that you guys SHOULDN'T be doing and allow mods to make the details...but modders can only do it if you add support for details like this.

16. Will Sea Region Mining be Intel based as well? Right now, we see the EXACT numbers. It would be interesting for this number to be 0 to X, and the low count to not be 0 only if you have indeed hit a mine in that SR already, or have Intel in the region. Of course, we need to remind the community the BEST way to look at mine damage is to go to the Naval Kill ledger, where you see Mine and Training accident damage. MtG never shows actual ship speed anywhere, so for this its actually great, because you can't look at your naval speed to know if there really are mines in the region you are sailing. Also, with Mine Sweeping...you should never know, for sure, that you have swept ALL mines. Intel based on ships should help things be more accurate, but the 0 to X values, X should only be zero if you have GREAT Intel and/or have had ships in the region for a long time and have never hit a mine.
 
I think either a game rules to block it to factions or we have the diplo action have to be approved by the sender before they can see the list
Have you considered making it like docking rights and military access(license access), so that we don't have to approve of them seeing the list and then also the vehicle for every license. To keep diplomatic clutter away you could alternatively require a non-aggression pact to view and request licenses. Japan and Germany should be able to license things from each other.
 
Except that isn't true. Japan for instance hid the financing of the Yamato class BBs by allocating their funding as a series of other ships, part of the reason that hull numbers are skipped in the Japanese Ship lists. For that matter, facts about their stats were hidden so well that the Yamato's armament was still being reported as 9x16-inch guns 4 months after she was sunk, they were still being reported as only 45k-tons, about the only thing that was correct was the length, almost everything else was grossly underestimated.

Wow! You found one excample on missinformation. Did that change it's classification as a BB? Did the US think it was a DD? Did it dissapear from the docks?
My argument is that you should know how many BBs or CVs (and more in most countries) a nation has and build. That is historical. Did Germany know wether France had three, four or six BBs? Yes. Absolutly. Did they know how many toilets they had or radars? No.
 
If he personally went point by point to answer all your questions, we'll never get this DLC released! :cool:
I want all information possible. This is the ONLY opportunity for us to give feedback, else we have to wait atleast to the next DLC, if not another year for them to provide an "Intel Polish" DLC. Measure twice, cut once.
 
I see you now have a strong incentive to pick inaccurate names and icons for divisions to confuse your opponents. Given that they can see your division names and icons, but not anything else at a certain intel level.
 
Well, I was hoping any army intel would actually be useful- as it stands now it won't change our plans or strategies at all.
Sure it will. First of all, ever notice the stuff you get now? Locations of enemy divisions on your front line, the quantity, radar showing some units well behind the front lines? Now you get very little or none of it unless you implement the new intel mechanics. And you get WAY more info, the more you invest. You get to look at the Supply Areas of the enemy and can see the current and max values, Signal Intel will reveal even more enemy units behind enemy lines. Scout planes can show even more units. You can see enemy templates with high intel values.

Basically, with a very high investment in Intel, its about as much info as Tab Switching over to the enemy and taking a sneak peak.
 
I see you now have a strong incentive to pick inaccurate names and icons for divisions to confuse your opponents. Given that they can see your division names and icons, but not anything else at a certain intel level.
I would think that the fake divisions use the same auto generated icons/names that you are using, else its pretty silly that in Multi-Player they can be spotted immediately due to the name.
 
I see you now have a strong incentive to pick inaccurate names and icons for divisions to confuse your opponents. Given that they can see your division names and icons, but not anything else at a certain intel level.
Other people see the default icon. Icon selection is only for the player for that exact reason. I believe it's been that way since 1.0
 
As mad as I am about no Soviet update this DLC, you guys have put a ton of thought into what looks like a really good intel package here.

Can you fix the entire Indian focus tree being broken if UK releases them though? Very easy fix.
 
What about the name? Can you cheese the icons by putting one unit of something, but the rest of something else?
If I understand the way it works correctly, the icon shown to other players is determined by what the majority of the unit battalions are. The name I assume is whatever someone changes the name to, but honestly, I already ignore the names of my own divisions, let alone the enemy's.