HoI4 Dev Diary - Resistance and Compliance

[Ethereld]

its more micro management that i dont want to do, previously i just ignored resistance and once the war is over it was gone, now it looks like i will stay after the war is over and id have to devote manpower and equipment to deal with it

If you played like that I can see your frustration, but truth be told it's just selecting a occupation law, if you don't let resistance grow you won't even need to devote manpower as the only function of the garrison is to absorb the resistance attacks.

Before to play in an optimal way you would have to devote more than a 100 divisions to garrison rebellious areas and gave them in the map together with your defense garrison and frontline armies

 

[NormieCamo]

its more micro management that i dont want to do, previously i just ignored resistance and once the war is over it was gone,

So you're upset that a mechanic you ignored is being made better instead of just continuing to ignore the mechanic, as you're free to do? You realize by ignoring resistance you were getting fewer factories from territories you occupied anyway?

 

[Rakia Time]

So you're upset that a mechanic you ignored is being made better instead of just continuing to ignore the mechanic, as you're free to do? You realize by ignoring resistance you were getting fewer factories from territories you occupied anyway?

for the few months when im at war, yes, but after i was free to use all the factories and resources to build up for the next war, i understand how the new system can be of use to people who fight decades long wars and build compliance over time but i dont get in any fight i cant finish within a year

 

[TalyonUngol]

Unfortunately, it just means that World Conquest will be impossible unless you play Soviet Union or China, or someone with massive amounts of static manpower, ergo, those two nations and maybe America.

I hope they include a slider or an option to reduce this or completely remove this new option, so people can have a separate kind of game than the others.

That way, you can please the realistic die-hard fans and the others who want a game with more variety instead of playing Allies win 2.0.

And with this resistance system, I fear alot of the things you can do, I.E forming nations, will becoming nigh impossible for alot of the countries currently. Byzatine empire for example. You already have no manpower as Greece, imagine having to man all the cotunries needed now?

Yea, it'll be impossible.

Edit: After reading the post, and somewhat understanding it, but still kind of confused entirely of whats going to happen, I came upon something else.

This should help curb a bit of power from snowballing (Hello, Germany), remove gamey early war sniping of provinces, and put a bit of a clock on world conquest runs.


Well, there goes alot of any actual strategies and once more securing you either play the Allies or just Germany/Japan in order to have a fun game.


This just doubles my opinion that I hope theres a slider to greatly lessen this or completely remove this supression and let us return to the current one. I rather not be pigeonholed into playing select countries with the inherent start advantages.


This update will remove any sort of alternative paths honestly. You'll be pigeonholed.

I also just thought of something this update REALLY screws over. Austria-Hungary. AH already suffers due to heavy RNG on their focuses. ((If you didn't know, you can either Annex Austria or have to go to war, you either ANnex, Puppet or have to go to war with Czech and Romania is annex 1 province, annex 4 provinces, or war))

If you have to go to war with Austria, you're so screwed with this update. You dont have the manpower to begin with to do anything. You're already reliant on RNG, and now the RNG gets even more devestating.

Edit 2: If you play as Hungary, going for Austria Hungary, you start with zero manpower. You do not get anymore unless you raise conscription or you go through your focuses. You can slightly more manpower at the start IF you Annex Austria, but that manpower quickly resets to Zero to reinforce your current forces. When you do it on Czech, you get a slight boost... I thikn up to 200k? Then you go for Romani and Yugoslavia. You're stuck at very little manpower, unable to do much until you form th Empire through the decision.

But now, if the way this update sounds..... you'll have to send manpower and equipment you don't have, even though its part of your focus tree? That's silly.

Yea, this particular part of the update is just unwelcome for me.

 

[TalyonUngol]

In what sense this makes the game less fun? I what I can see it just reduces micromanagement and late game lag from division spam

Because this is not the only thing it does. Does anyone think of the entire game board?

With all the options you can do, all the alt-history routes you can take, all of the acheivements, you pretty much remove most of these acheivements from the possibility of doing. Like The New World Order for making everyone facist. I suppose you could take all that time to boost but dear god... could you imagine that gameplay?

Just playing Germany and boosting everyone to facism. Lmao. Great gameplay 12/10.

One Empire achievment. Unite the Entire World under the British Empire. Well that'll be impossible now unless you actually have a super computer from NASA able to play the game into late 2026 having to handle all that manpower and equipment for each province. Russia, America, Germany, CHINA.... Good fucking luck.

I could look through more of the achievements, but you pretty much just remove all of it from the gameboard with the future resistance update.

I was 100% ok with the change to having to use manpower and equipment... if it wasn't permament. The old resistance was ok when you completely removed it once you defeated the faction leader, being the Allies. Yea, it helped Snowball Germany, but this was not the way. Now you just made it a no go to play anything but the ALlies or Germany.

As I posted in my previous post, try playing Austria-Hungary right now, and then imagine it otherwise. Play AH multiple times and you'll get a picture. I posted what does happen currently, and then imagine it when you have to give up the "early province sniping". Yea, you just negated 90% of alt-history gameplay, so now you just made half of the focus trees that they made, absolutely useless.

So yea, Im kind of in the same boat as the guy you mentioned. When you turn up realistic to the point where you pigeonhole people into a singular playstyle, instead of giving variety, its a hard pass for me as well. I don't want to play the same game, over and over and over and over, with nothing different added.

The greatest thing about Hoi4, was the ability to play a multiple different ways. I could play the USA, go facist and conquer South America and Join Japan. I could play the UK, bring back the king and make a monarch world empire((I haven't done it yet of course, but the idea is there)). I could play Italy, form that Roman Empire and turn every country into red. I could play Hungary, form the A-H empire and have fun. I could play Mexico, and reunite Central and South America under Mexican rule. You had the option to have historical or nonhistorical... Now... what's the point, except for weird stuff to happen, not that it matters anymore.

With this new update, you remove alot of the variety this game offered.

This game was a wonderful game... as it could have catered to both die hard Realism simulator fans... and the fans who like the WW2 setting and the options to do crazy nonhistorical stuff, under the era of WW2... but now... this update makes it just for the realism fans. They are pretty much killing off a part of their player base.



Yea, maybe I might be wrong and maybe this resistance update wont be as bad as I say. I am kind of Forecasting Doom here... but I have always had the ability to find flaws and point out things that could happen and why things were/are not a good idea.

obviously, my Belly Aching doesn't matter anymore. The Devs are dead-set on their ways... but I at least can voice my concern/opinion about the direction this game is taking.

 

[J_Master]

It's just overly dramatic at this point. "Waaah, I can't conquer the world as Luxembourg anymore because I can't snipe Chinese MP that easily". WC will still be possible, it will just provide a extra challenge. I actually like this new mechanic. Coming from Darkest Hour, I always found it strange that owned but uncored territory gave no malusses to factory output and resource gathering. DH had that, unrest in those provinces could lead to rebellions which can bring your supply out of whack, have you redeploy forces or risk your offensive being threatened or a country braking away. Yet, I still pulled off hsitorically rediculous stuff like invading the US as Germany, despite not gaining full MP, resources and industry from my uncored land. The HoI series has always tried to find a balance between realism and "arcade"-ism. And in my opinion, this is a step in the right direction

 

[TalyonUngol]

It's just overly dramatic at this point. "Waaah, I can't conquer the world as Luxembourg anymore because I can't snipe Chinese MP that easily". WC will still be possible, it will just provide a extra challenge. I actually like this new mechanic. Coming from Darkest Hour, I always found it strange that owned but uncored territory gave no malusses to factory output and resource gathering. DH had that, unrest in those provinces could lead to rebellions which can bring your supply out of whack, have you redeploy forces or risk your offensive being threatened or a country braking away. Yet, I still pulled off hsitorically rediculous stuff like invading the US as Germany, despite not gaining full MP, resources and industry from my uncored land. The HoI series has always tried to find a balance between realism and "arcade"-ism. And in my opinion, this is a step in the right direction

We will see. It could go either way. I've already posted why this update could ruin much of the games.... Variety.

That's a worst case scenario and a likely one. Like. Will i need 10k troops for every province that i take? 1k? 5k? 100k? Will peace conferences lessen this?

Im Just pointing out that this could be a very damaging thing to the game yet people here already treat it as the messiah to tho game without thinking about how bad it could be. Im merely pointing out the worst case and likely scenario. I don't trust the devs to be fair to both sides. This update already swings to the realism and heavily removes the other side.

All i want is the option to remove this new resistance in the sliders. No reason not to put it in.

 

[Rakia Time]

the bright side is it will most likely be moddable, the first i do is make it so i get 100% compliance in a day

why cant they just give us new focus trees without massive gameplay changes, its good the way it is

 

[Morris Schaffer]

We will see. It could go either way. I've already posted why this update could ruin much of the games.... Variety.

That's a worst case scenario and a likely one. Like. Will i need 10k troops for every province that i take? 1k? 5k? 100k? Will peace conferences lessen this?

Im Just pointing out that this could be a very damaging thing to the game yet people here already treat it as the messiah to tho game without thinking about how bad it could be. Im merely pointing out the worst case and likely scenario. I don't trust the devs to be fair to both sides. This update already swings to the realism and heavily removes the other side.

All i want is the option to remove this new resistance in the sliders. No reason not to put it in.

Yeah, I get you. But I choose to trust the devs in this case, based on their choice of words. "curb a bit of power", and "put a bit of a clock on world conquest runs." "A bit" means little. A little tougher resistance should be fine.

 

[TalyonUngol]

Yeah, I get you. But I choose to trust the devs in this case, based on their choice of words. "curb a bit of power", and "put a bit of a clock on world conquest runs." "A bit" means little. A little tougher resistance should be fine.

Well when they said remove early sniping of provinces that's when i big time hated it. That entire thing was how i played. I do it as Italy to form the Roman Empire and slow Germany. I Like to take Austria and Czech in one move. Slows Germany down nicely.

Then i do it as Soviets to remove the malus so i can do a good commy run.

Now I'm not sure how im going to do that Italy run if i can't do it. It's already difficult. Now im unsure entirely.

I'm just not sure about this update. Italy already has to race the clock to do anything. Now he's kind of screwed... But we will see I suppose.

 

[Ethereld]

I was 100% ok with the change to having to use manpower and equipment... if it wasn't permament. The old resistance was ok when you completely removed it once you defeated the faction leader, being the Allies. Yea, it helped Snowball Germany, but this was not the way. Now you just made it a no go to play anything but the ALlies or Germany.

You people are exaggerating the effects of this change. First of all provinces with high compliance will be far more powerful than non core states in the current patch, what you have is the choice of a more peaceful occupation with less resistance and higher compliance growth Vs stronger early resources exploitation but with more resistance and less compliance. Depending on your playstile you would choose one or another

 

[GeorgieBest]

First of all provinces with high compliance will be far more powerful than non core states in the current patch

Do you mean more powerful in terms of manpower available? I didn't know we would be able to access more than what is currently available for non-core states.

 

[Ethereld]

Do you mean more powerful in terms of manpower available? I didn't know we would be able to access more than what is currently available for non-core states.

Yes, according to the Devs a territory with 100% compliance it's still not as good as a core but it's far better than nowadays. Now, getting there means less industry and more resistance in the first steps of the occupation

 

[NormieCamo]

Unfortunately, it just means that World Conquest will be impossible

Good.

I hope they include a slider or an option to reduce this or completely remove this new option, so people can have a separate kind of game than the others.

Console commands or mods, or turn down the difficulty to Recruit.

others who want a game with more variety instead of playing Allies win 2.0

You are kidding right? The allies are weaker than they've ever been, the Axis is the strongest it's ever been. There has to be some semblance of balance.

And with this resistance system, I fear alot of the things you can do, I.E forming nations, will becoming nigh impossible for alot of the countries currently. Byzatine empire for example. You already have no manpower as Greece, imagine having to man all the cotunries needed now? Yea, it'll be impossible.

You said the exact same thing about Rome in MTG and look how that turned out. It just takes skill. Also, if you read the update, any states you have cores on have no resistance. Meaning formable nations will have no resistance in their cores once they're formed.

I also just thought of something this update REALLY screws over. Austria-Hungary. AH already suffers due to heavy RNG on their focuses.

While I agree that the RNG on Austria-Hungary isn't good design, it's also way too easy to form and way too strong once it is formed.

With all the options you can do, all the alt-history routes you can take, all of the acheivements, you pretty much remove most of these acheivements from the possibility of doing. Like The New World Order for making everyone facist. I suppose you could take all that time to boost but dear god... could you imagine that gameplay?

Or like, puppet them. As tended to happen in real life, with resistance to occupation being the primary reason for that. Just a thought.

We will see. It could go either way. I've already posted why this update could ruin much of the games.... Variety.

That's ironic considering you cheat yourself of 90% of the game's variety by refusing to play any minor nation, or any nation that can't conquer half the planet via focus tree. You're the guy who said they can't imagine having fun playing the Netherlands, while complaining about variety.

Well when they said remove early sniping of provinces that's when i big time hated it. That entire thing was how i played.

What mechanic exactly are you worried about here? What they mean by this is, for example, Japan declaring war on the Netherlands in 1936 to take all their rubber and oil. That should be discouraged somehow, as it would absolutely never fly. Resistance won't prevent this, but will be at least a tiny downside to doing so.

When I read this I imagine Hitler with his generals praying to God to remove the concept of resistance from reality because it makes conquering the world by 1941 too hard.

 

[Rakia Time]

You people are exaggerating the effects of this change. First of all provinces with high compliance will be far more powerful than non core states in the current patch, what you have is the choice of a more peaceful occupation with less resistance and higher compliance growth Vs stronger early resources exploitation but with more resistance and less compliance. Depending on your playstile you would choose one or another

you are missing the point, i dont want to deal with it AT ALL, i want once the war is over all resistance is permanently gone and i get full access to everything, period, i dont want to devote my already non existent manpower and weapon supply to fight resistance, i cant even keep my front line units supplied ffs and i definitely dont want to wait a X number of years to get full access to industry and resources

for me this is a game breaker

 

[TalyonUngol]

Good.

Console commands or mods, or turn down the difficulty to Recruit.

You are kidding right? The allies are weaker than they've ever been, the Axis is the strongest it's ever been. There has to be some semblance of balance.

You said the exact same thing about Rome in MTG and look how that turned out. It just takes skill. Also, if you read the update, any states you have cores on have no resistance. Meaning formable nations will have no resistance in their cores once they're formed.

While I agree that the RNG on Austria-Hungary isn't good design, it's also way too easy to form and way too strong once it is formed.


Or like, puppet them. As tended to happen in real life, with resistance to occupation being the primary reason for that. Just a thought.


That's ironic considering you cheat yourself of 90% of the game's variety by refusing to play any minor nation, or any nation that can't conquer half the planet via focus tree. You're the guy who said they can't imagine having fun playing the Netherlands, while complaining about variety.


What mechanic exactly are you worried about here? What they mean by this is, for example, Japan declaring war on the Netherlands in 1936 to take all their rubber and oil. That should be discouraged somehow, as it would absolutely never fly. Resistance won't prevent this, but will be at least a tiny downside to doing so.

When I read this I imagine Hitler with his generals praying to God to remove the concept of resistance from reality because it makes conquering the world by 1941 too hard.

1. Congrats. You just showed that you really hate anything that goes against realism. I can't take you serious

2. See 1.

3. Its obvious youd like to see this game be Allies win 2.0.

4. I think you are mistaken. This completely makes forming nations much much much harder if not impossible. How exactly do you plan on forming the Byzatine Empire with no greek manpower since you have to spend it on resistance? GG. Just made it impossible.

5. Way too easy to form? Only if you scum the save game. You ain't going to form it otherwise with big daddy Germany there. They don't ever go oppose Hitler.

6. You ain't gonna get that far. You won't have the manpower.
7. Ironic? I play a ton of nations and i don't need to conquer the entire world ro have fun. But now it makes any sort of formable nation stupidly impossible. Wanna play Sweden and make Scandinavia and Nordic empire? Too bad. No manpower so Germany takes it all so you lost.

7. He said sniping early provinces. Thats literally how alot of countries play their alt route. Hungary if they get rng screwed on Austria. Italy since it has multiple playstyles. Oh. You wanna grab Yugoslavia asap. Too bad. You just neutered yourself.

This update completely negates so much of the game for alt historical paths. Not that people care. Its obvious they want Allies win 2.0 instead of a game that can have both styles of play equalized.

 

[TalyonUngol]

you are missing the point, i dont want to deal with it AT ALL, i want once the war is over all resistance is permanently gone and i get full access to everything, period, i dont want to devote my already non existent manpower and weapon supply to fight resistance, i cant even keep my front line units supplied ffs and i definitely dont want to wait a X number of years to get full access to industry and resources

for me this is a game breaker

Especially with how you need a very strong computer around 1945 to handle the game before it crashes.

 

[Secret Master]

3. Its obvious youd like to see this game be Allies win 2.0.

Under current rules, Germany can exceed US factories and factory slots by seizing everything from Lisbon to Kiev (excluding Italy). Thanks to how occupations work, you can gain 100% of factories and resources from occupied territory.

I don't see how you think the game is biased in favor of the Allies winning when Germany can outproduce the United States.

 

[TalyonUngol]

Under current rules, Germany can exceed US factories and factory slots by seizing everything from Lisbon to Kiev (excluding Italy). Thanks to how occupations work, you can gain 100% of factories and resources from occupied territory.

I don't see how you think the game is biased in favor of the Allies winning when Germany can outproduce the United States.

Yes, I agree. The way the factories work, and how you gain them is silly. I agree. They could have easily made a mechanic that halves or even removes 75% of factories from taking a province. That would have curved alot of the game.

They didn't have to make a mechanic that basically screws EVERY country, especially minors, remove any sort of ability to make formable nations, remove any sort of alt-history path viability.


And reread the post you quotes. I said he'd like to SEE it. It doesn't mean it is the current state of the game.

As the other guy who said this update was too much for him, he said that realism to a point is wonderful... but when it makes playing the game impossible unless you enjoy that sort of thing, then its too much.

I have nothing wrong with realistic things in this game. Its actually enjoyable, but this particular part of the update is going to kill so much.

THATS my problem. It wasn't a well thought out idea.

I'd actually be ok with it, if you removed all penalities completely. Like defeat the Allies. You take France, Uk down and now you can have the provinces without wasting more manpower and equipment, but as it is. It's going to be impossible to doanything as anyone, unless you have actual manpower. Italy is going to take a huge hit. Germany will be pretty ok imo... but any minors is who this hits the hardest. This also hits the Facist/Non aligned Uk the hardest too.


Edit: The above thing wouldn't affect the game for German Ai. They are too stupid to naval invade or paratroop into UK anyway, so the war never ends.

 

[Mr.Grizzly]

4. I think you are mistaken. This completely makes forming nations much much much harder if not impossible. How exactly do you plan on forming the Byzatine Empire with no greek manpower since you have to spend it on resistance? GG. Just made it impossible.

Wait what? Greece is a horrible example, they don't have any non-core territory at start and by forming Byzantium you can get cores on huge chunks of land, such as Turkey, the Balkans, Italy, the Levant, Egypt and Tunis. They get cores on all of the Balkans and Turkey upon forming the nation, it's not like Rome where you don't get any cores until formation, Byzantium you get decisions which give you cores.