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HoI4 Dev Diary - Ship Designer

Hello, and welcome back for another look at what is probably my favourite feature of Man the Guns: the Ship Designer. It has cost us a lot to make - sweat, tears, sanity (several members of the team now understand the “Poi” meme).

The stated goal of Man the Guns is to make the naval gameplay more involved and adding more depth to it by adding more roles that need to be covered and giving the player new tools to fill these roles. We also wanted to make sure that we had a system that could represent a wide variety of ship types with a minimum of clutter. Finally, we wanted the system to be as moddable as possible.

As many of you have concluded from Daniel’s little accident on stream last week, we have overhauled ship types to be ship hulls instead. The ship hulls themselves are basically empty containers with no combat stats. For simplicity’s sake they do contain stats like cruising range and HP (although they don’t have to!), but the rest of the stats come from modules.

(It should be noted that a lot of the numbers and the GUI you are about to see are not completely final so please keep your pitchforks pointing downwards and your torches unlit)

britain_cruiser.jpg


Every hull type has a limited number of slots in which you can fit these modules, and also restricts what type of module you can fit. So a Destroyer - now called a Light Ship Hull - can’t mount heavy guns or airplane launchers but can mount depth charges, whereas a Battleship - now called a Heavy Ship Hull - can mount airplane launchers and heavy guns but not depth charges. These slots come in two flavors - fixed and custom slots. Fixed slots are things that are either mandatory - like the engines - or shouldn’t compete with other things. All ships except submarines have a fixed AA slot, for example. You don’t have to fill that slot if you want your ship to be completely helpless against air attacks, but you can also only ever mount AA guns in that slot. Custom slots are much more flexible and allow you to tailor a ship to a specific role. Higher levels of ship hulls generally have more custom slots available.

ENG base hull destroyer.jpg


Say you play Britain and have somehow ended up in a war against Germany. Submarines are raiding your convoys and you are desperate for new escorts. Under the old system, you built a bunch of destroyers at a fixed cost, maybe spent some naval XP to upgrade their ASW capabilities and that was that. Under the new system, you take an early (read: cheap) light hull and strip out everything you don’t need. That ship is going to operate in the middle of the Atlantic, far away from enemy air, and the opponent has no carriers, so it needs little, if any, AA. The enemy surface fleet hasn’t shown itself in years, so you can skimp on the gun battery and the torpedo armament to cut down cost. You also go with the most basic set of engines to keep the ship as cheap as possible - it doesn’t have to be fast to catch a submarine. Instead, you load the ship down with depth charges and sonar modules to track down enemy submarines. The goal is to make a cheap convoy escort that can be mass-produced.

Britain destroyer Escort.jpg


However, Japan has been making aggressive noises recently and you expect to fight in the Pacific against enemy carrier battlegroups. So you start with a more more modern destroyer hull and add as much AA as it can carry to send it to help out Australia.

Britain Fleet Destroyer.jpg


Unfortunately, you miscalculated and the Japanese are running swarms of cheap, disposable destroyers with lots of torpedoes and not much else, using their carriers in a defensive role to provide air cover. So you design a light cruiser with plenty of guns to annihilate the destroyers before they can do too much damage. It won’t be cheap, but it’ll give you the edge - once it is in service. Somewhere along the line you’ll also want to build up a carrier battlegroup or two of your own, and that means you’ll have to also look at cruisers and battleships for escorts as well as the carriers themselves…thankfully you have a number of old battleships and cruisers lying around that could be given a second lease on life by refitting them (details to come in a future dev diary!)

A lot of these considerations come down to cost. We played around a bit with the idea of having ship hulls provide an amount of tonnage and modules cost some tonnage, but in the end we found that it was easier to understand if the number of variables restraining a design was fairly small. While the system will allow you to build super ships with naval attack values that dwarf the values you can reach in 1.5.4, they will not be cheap and they will have some other areas in which they are weak.

britain_hermes.jpg


The system also allows you to build a number of ship classes that have been requested a lot, without having to add new subtypes. A light carrier is just a carrier with fewer hangar modules (and thus considerably cheaper), an anti-aircraft cruiser is just a regular cruiser that mounts dual-purpose main guns (which perform somewhat poorly against surface targets compared to other armament options). A seaplane carrier is a cruiser that dedicates most of its custom slots to airplane launchers, giving it great surface detection at the cost of being bad at pretty much everything else.

Germany_panzerschiff.jpg


For some ship types we made special hull types that give special capabilities. The Panzerschiff hull is available for Germany and is essentially a cruiser that mounts a single battleship-grade heavy battery module. Sweden and other nordic countries get a special Coastal Defense Ship hull, which is slower than a regular cruiser but can also mount a battleship gun. The German pre-dreadnoughts have also been given their own hull type, but here it is more a case of missing capabilities…Most of these are set at game start, but some are available as special rewards for completing certain focuses.

germany_cruiser_submarine.jpg


As you may have guessed, modules are unlocked by researching technologies. Most of these are in the new and revised naval tech tree which isn’t ready to be shown off just yet, but some are spread around other tech trees. Radar research gives you access, unsurprisingly, to radar modules, and researching anti-air in the artillery tree unlocks better AA guns to mount on your ships. Fire control computers are a side branch of regular mechanical computing machines.

Here is brief list of modules for each ship type, note that some of this will not fully make sense until you see the details of the naval combat rework that is coming in a future dev diary (™):

Light Hulls:

- Light Battery: Provides some naval attack against other light ships, higher models also have dual-purpose capabilities to add AA

- Anti-Air: Provides some air attack

- Depth Charges: Provide sub attack

- Torpedoes: Provide some torpedo attack

- Mine Rails: Provide some mining capability

- Minesweeping Gear: Provides some capability to sweep mines

- Radar: Adds some surface detection. Later models also provide bonuses to naval and air attack

- Sonar: adds some submarine detection

- Fire Control System: adds a bonus to naval attack and anti-air

Cruisers:

  • Light Battery

  • Light Medium Battery: adds some more naval attack and armor piercing, better against light ships

  • Medium Battery: adds some naval attack and armor piercing against other heavy ships. Less effective against light ships.

  • Anti Air

  • Depth Charges

  • Torpedoes

  • Mine Rails

  • Secondary Battery: gives some attack against light ships, particularly useful for heavy cruisers and battleships. Later models have dual-purpose capability to also add AA value

  • Airplane Launcher: adds some surface and submarine detection

  • Armor: adds some armor to reduce incoming damage at the cost of speed

  • Radar

  • Sonar

  • Fire Control System

Heavy Hulls:

  • Heavy Battery: Adds a large amount of naval attack and armor piercing at the cost of speed. Basically useless against light ships.

  • Secondary Battery

  • Anti-Air

  • Armor

  • Airplane Launcher

  • Radar

  • Fire Control

Carriers:

  • Deck Space: Provides more space for planes

  • Deck Armor: provides some armor and HP at the cost of speed. Competes with Deck Space for slots

  • Anti-Air

  • Secondary battery

Submarines:

  • Torpedoes

  • Mines

  • Radar

  • Schnorkel: Reduces visibility of submarine

As you can see, your light hulls will carry a lot of weight to provide defense against submarines, but can also be turned into quite potent AA units or nasty torpedo boats. Cruisers are meant to be very flexible and fulfil a variety of roles, from being essentially super-heavy destroyers with plenty of torpedoes and guns to being the poor-man’s capital ship or being large, fast minelayers. Battleships and Battlecruisers are separated by different armor schemes and not much else, but with heavy armor being both labor and resource intensive, perhaps some corners could be cut…

britain Carrier.jpg


Carriers are now more flexible in terms of size, ranging from tiny carriers for a handful of planes all the way to 100+ plane supercarriers. That should make the entry into the carrier game somewhat achievable even for smaller nations. Submarines are still largely the same, but with some upgrades they can be very hard to find indeed and special submarines can lay as many mines as a dedicated minelaying cruiser for less cost and lower risk of detection.

While the ship designer window itself is going to be part of the DLC, the old naval tree you already know will simply unlock pre-scripted ship designs, and instead of the ship designer window you get the regular variant upgrade screen you are already familiar with.

Britain super battleship.jpg


Assuming that the Ship designer works out as we hope it does, we might expand the system to cover tanks and airplanes as well. Some of the backend was made with tanks and airplanes in mind, but we are mainly concerned with overloading the player with design choices during potentially hectic situations in the war (you are trying to micro the encirclement of 6th Army but you also need to design a new tank destroyer…). Ships have a long lead time so we expect you to have to design them less often.

That is all for the week. Next week we will talk a bit about what you can do with your old ships...and why you probably won’t be able to build min-max battleships on the first day of the game.


Rejected Titles:

Playing with LEGO-Ships

Who designs the designer?

Basically made just to allow Sweden to have its historically accurate fleet

This is a Panzerschiff. It schiffs Panzers.

Aviation Battleships are bad and you should feel bad.

This radar nonsense will never work

What’s wrong with my bloody ships today?

The spirits of Emperor Wilhelm II and Sir John Fisher were consulted for this feature

We ship Iowa/Musashi

RIP the torpedo battleship meta 12/6/2018-7/11/2018

The best ship design is Friendship

Count of people who ask about doing this for tanks and airplanes without reading the dev diary so far: 1
 
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be honest, I just read the first page. My question is, if you install a catapult plane on a non-carrier-ship, do you have to build the plane seperately and can it be destroyed so you should have to have a reserve of catapult planes?
Doesn't look like there is actual catapult plane "just" a fixed stat increase.
 
This does look good, though there are a couple of things I'd like to see added...

The first is increased fuel / bunkerage as a slot. The story behind this is the naval treaties, specifically but not exclusively for the Royal Navy's cruisers, allowed them extra fuel and bunkerage as we had such a large empire to police. Now I'd image that newer hull classes will come with increased range and slots, but being able to add extra fuel and provisions would allow a greater degree of freedom, especially early in the game. At the cost of not being able to use the slot for something else. Generally design wise these allowed increased armour ratings as the extra space and tonnage was usually used for torpedo bulges or suchlike.

The second and probably most important slot item that I would suggest is flag facilities. This would be the differentiation between a destroyer and a destroyer leader for instance, or a heavy fleet AAA cruiser and a heavy cruiser tailored to be a capital ship which is inherently commanding smaller vessels. The former merely being an escort for carriers or BBs, the latter a true capital.

Clearly should give a bonus to C3, with the bonus increasing with tech level and other slot items. Radar, asdic and the like. The German raiders for instance were not designed with fleet actions specifically in mind hence could happily skimp here.

Obviously true capitals such as BBs and CVs should automatically come with flag facilities, but that isn't to say they should automatically be up to date. The older tubs might need a minor refit to get the latest C3 should these be researched through doctrines.. Rather than merely researching something and having it instantly apply to every tub.

I'd also give bonusses to NGFS with improved flag facilities and comms. A single light cruiser packed a similar punch in terms of artilery throw weight to a couple of British infantry divisions and it would be an excellent move if this was finally represented in game.
 
@Archangel85
Question for ya would the design screen make it possible to create the japanese half battleship half carrier or would it be more of a moddable design?
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Long live Yuudachi POI \o/
images
 
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Awesome! Unit customization is my favorite. :)
I'm definitely in favor of doing this for tanks in the future. I think you can avoid having the player need to stop their invasion to design a tank destroyer (as per the example given in the dev diary) by having some ready-made unit designs/templates. Then players can modify them or completely replace them as the game progresses, as they see fit.
 
I really hope you don't do this system for tanks and aircraft, the latter in particular. Balancing aircraft for this system will be a nightmare, if not next to impossible.

Plus, aircraft don't have multiple "slots" to work with like naval ships do and the only "crossover" you realistically had between hull types, ignoring navalized aircraft and rare CAS conversions, was between fighters and "heavy" fighters and tactical/strategic bombers being slotted in as naval bombers. Also you would get silliness such as strategic bombers that do nothing but boost range to be used as nuke carriers.
 
I feel like none of this will matter since the AI will just keep attacking your deathball and dying. I fear that spamming battleships and/or carriers will still be the best option.
 
I feel like none of this will matter since the AI will just keep attacking your deathball and dying. I fear that spamming battleships and/or carriers will still be the best option.

They are changing the naval battle system. Let's see how they will work now before running to that conclusion.
It is true that without the battle system change, it would still be BB paradise.
 
day/month/year

God dxxx America having to be entitled and needing different measurements and dating systems. Can't even get free health care.
 
Paradox, I am disappointed.

You write a lengthy dev diary. You have a bunch of rejected titles. Youa re talking about designing warships.

And you don't make ONE reference to the best trailer your company has ever produced?!


Ship just got real.
 
Hmm might be interesting now that the Tonnage is more important, if there are any plans to put in a maximum Tonnage able to pass through the 3 canals.
 
I have been following HOI4 for a while. Seeing what's coming for MTG, I think it's safe to say you guys will see some more of me on this forum now. I'll buy this game soon. Hype builds up.
 
-As for carriers... there were many different configurations, from the modified merchants, though designated escort carrier, thought light carriers based on cruiser hulls, to fleet carriers designed with that purpose form the start, through BB-hull based carriers that were massively protected (for a CV). And of course let's not forget Brittish CVs with armored decks... So I know we can't have all of that, but shouldn't there be at least cruiser-based CVL's allowed? (so far as I can see they are not currently).

Floatplane carriers and modified merchants did not really have enough planes to be worth modeling as carriers. You can probably model floatplane carriers using a cruiser hull with a lot of aircraft launchers, which will give them very impressive spotting but not much else.

Considering that the first carrier hull is 'converted carriers', Paradox may allow a special rule in that battleship/cruiser hulls can be converted to CV1s. A good choice if you have no flattops and need them operational ASAP, but dedicated carrier hulls will do the job better, which is realistic. We probably will find out if this is the case in next week's diary.