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HOI4 Dev Diary - The Baltic States 1/2 and Poland 3/2

Hello and welcome to another dev diary for the Barbarossa patch! Today I’m back with you to talk about not one, not two, but three new focus trees coming with the upcoming expansion: Latvia, Lithuania, and Estonia!
Baltic States Map.png


The Baltic States were in a difficult position in the build-up to world war 2; only recently liberated from Russian and German rule and less than 20 years on from a bloody struggle against both imperialist powers. In the 30s, each of the states had established authoritarian rule in fear of German and Soviet invasions, and a player hoping to survive as a Baltic state must take some extreme measures to overcome these overwhelming odds...

The Baltic States, like the Chinese, will share some branches of their focus tree while other branches will be unique to each country. This week I am going to talk about the shared branches; the industrial branch and the communist political branch.
Baltic Total Focuses.png


Starting up with the industrial branch, each Baltic state was in something of a similar situation economically; relying heavily on foreign investment and equipment for their industry and armed forces. As such, each Baltic state may decide if they wish to put their faith in the democratic nations to supply their economy, or the Axis powers to fuel the war machine.
Baltic Industry Branch.png


The other common issue facing the Baltics was that they had previously been occupied by the Soviets and Germany, and their industry was sorely lacking. So, the Balts can attract workers to their capital and begin their rearmament and develop their research sector.
Attract Workers.png


Lastly, by modernising their industry, the Baltic states may become much more self-sufficient and end their reliance on foreign powers to fuel their war machine. They may expand raw resource production in their nation, which for Estonia and Latvia means the development of their on-map resources.

Lithuania however was uniquely very reliant on its agriculture, and thus starts the game with a variant of the “Agrarian Society” national spirit which can be slowly turned into a great benefit via their industrial tree.
Natural Resources.png


Next up, each of the Baltic States had recently endured bloody struggles against the USSR, so popular support for communism was vanishingly low. A Baltic state hoping to overthrow the government and establish an independent communist state must do so through war.
Estonia civil war.png


The Balts can either choose to rely on the Soviet intervention or attempt to reconcile relations with the Baltic lower classes and try to maintain their independence while establishing communism on their own.
Restore Workers Republic.png


Once the revolution is done and your nation is communist, the player will have the option to re-establish the Lithuania-Belarus SSR. In the case you sided with the Soviets, the USSR will grant you their half of Belarus with the rest coming either through war or the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact.
Lithuania Belarus Soviets.png


If you are independent however, Belarus must be acquired through adversarial means. The Baltic state must propagandise support for unification in Belarus similar to the Spanish Civil War garrison control system. When time runs out, Belarus will be released and fight a civil war; the victor will be annexed into either the victorious Baltic nation or the USSR.
Latvia Belarus decisions.png


The Baltic nation will also be able to try to convert their neighbours to communism through a propaganda war. No matter which path the Baltic player takes to establish socialism across the Baltics; they will be able to form the United Baltic SSR.
Baltic Socialist Republic.png


From there, they may use their newfound strength against Scandinavia and Poland and achieve communism across the entire Baltic Sea.
Baltic Warpath.png

That’s all for the Baltic States this week, next week I will be talking about the entirely unique political trees for each Baltic state.



Something worth bringing up here is we did make some changes to the Polish tree since we last talked about it. Firstly, I do just want to show off some of the new focus icons we got since I wrote those dev diaries and I feel like our artists have done a really great job. There are more, but I don't want to spoil all of them just yet! ;)
Poland focus icons.png


We originally planned to have Poland get an off-map reactor to essentially get them control of 1 nuke during play as an exile nation. This to reflect their role in the nuclear project, but we were already a bit on the fence on if this was too immersion breaking for the gameplay purpose, and it seemed many of you thought so too so we removed the off-map reactor and moved the focus to the industry branch.
Poland atomic bomb.png


Next, I managed to find time to implement Karl Albrecht von Habsburg as an option for monarchist Poland. He has his own branch which involves pressing the Habsburg claim on Czechoslovakia.
Karl Albrecht I.png

Habsburg Path.png


Claiming Czechoslovakia uses the same decision system as claiming Lithuania for the Commonwealth branch, and once the two nations are united, the ambition of West-Slavic unification is realised and the new nation may declare itself protector of the western Slavic peoples living in Germany.
West Slavia.png


Karl Albrecht I was known for the service he provided to the Polish army, and it’s unlikely that willingness to serve would vanish upon becoming King. So, as Soldier-King, he will gain a plethora of unique personality traits as well as becoming a field marshal.
Soldier King.png


With Hungary aligning itself with Poland’s enemies, Karl Albrecht can demand that Horthy step down in favour of Otto von Habsburg and force Hungary down their Habsburg path, diplomatically aligning them with Habsburg Poland.
Demand Habsburg Rule.png


Galicia-Lodomeria represented Habsburg rule over Poland and as such, Karl Albrecht may restore the Diet of Galicia which as well as giving the Royal Sejm national spirit, moves the nation’s capital to Krakow. While this centralises the capital between Poland and Czechoslovakia and surrounds the capital in defensible hills, the old Polish capital is also very close to the German border and may prove an easy target…
Diet of Galicia.png


I feel I should also clarify the mechanics behind electing a monarch. When the Fulfil the 5th of November Act focus is complete, candidates come forward and present themselves to be King. So while it would make little sense for the regency council to reach out and invite candidates like Pavel Bermondt-Avalov to be King, Pavel is certainly the type to try and present himself for King.
Cossack King Event.png


The final thing I'd like to mention is that during testing we noticed that it was quite a chore to scroll back and forth between the Polish tree with it being so wide, so I implemented a system where the Polish tree automatically compacts itself when you've chosen a political path.
Tree compacting.png


That’s all for this week, next week we will be covering the paths unique to each Baltic state and for now I’ll leave you with this teaser.
funny_hat_dot_png.png
 
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Wait Meka66, you have Polish beta-testers and they agree to set Danzig as demilitarized region? It was not, first shots in II World War were made there! Second question: if baltics align with Britian, will they receive focuses for government in exile?


So you are giving a prometheism option for Baltic states, but not for Poland? Even though Poland was hosting Ukrainian government in exile before war?

I really hope Ruthenians will receive some love in Soviet Union update. They deserve it, but Paradox is not trying to earn their money.

4uPh8u6.png






Hey guys, you pointed out what is wrong with assiging different people to particular political and military options. Can you propose changes? Who should be assigned to which focus? Just like MrMcQue below? And like Sir.Dr.X clarified communists?




While I admire your history knowledge, I am against that idea. Proposed Polish focus tree is already very big and you want to make it even bigger and similar to your masterpiece mod. Personally I vote for a more simple presentation of Poland.

Not exactly. Lithuania from XVIII century was rather a Ruthenian state than Lithuanians as we now them today. Lithuanians conquered Ruthenian tribes, but were ruthenized afterwards.

Assign few light tanks as recon for Polish divisions, please. To make it easier, on 20th February 1936 Polish army already had:
cars: 3701
1.382 motorcycles
610 tanks
264 armored cars
1.
2.


It is historically accurate. In 1935 Hermann Göring visited Józef Piłsudski and proposed military alliance against Soviet Union. Pierre Laval, French minister of foreing affairs, was researching a possibility to create a Small Entente including France, Poland and Czechoslovakia. He has met Józef Beck in Poland in 1935 for that. In 15th August 1939 Stalin proposed to UK and France a militiary alliance against Germany, but allies' diplomacy was too slow and he signed Ribbentrop-Molotov pact instead. Small countries had many options to choose from. In reality, their focus trees should be bigger than those of major powers!



The reality was different, as I pointed somewhere before. TLDR:
1. It was France who proposed Madagascar to Poland, because they thought Polish would manage colony for French Jews.
2. Polish government was trying to use Jews colonization as excuse to convince Allies to acquire Palestine and Madagascar.
3. Poland sent a 3-people mission with 2 Jewish members who decided colonizing Madagascar is stupid. No one was relocated.
4. Jews were traveling to Palestine on their own, check the word Aliyah. Poland established a constant sea and air connection for them, but they were not forced to relocate.
5. Even though no antisemitic movement happened, Polish antisemites catched the idea. They were demanding relocation.

It was also already clarified by Adrianuse




While Madagascar colony can be considered completely neglecting Jewish issue (government did not want to relocate Jews there, but Polish), there are focuses only about antisemitism: "Nationalist Education" and "Abolish Segregation Seating". I treat it as a complement. Since Paradox is avoiding attrocities ingame, presenting examples of antisemitism in Poland is clearly showing how gentle and neglectable it was :) That is because I make assumptions of developer's good will. But if some people in Poland notice it, it will be scandalous. No antisemitism in Germany, only in Poland?

Why is it sensitive subject in Poland? There are consiracy theories, that foes of Poland are trying to falsify history and convince the world, Poland was responsible for Holocaust, Poland started II World War.

Below I put quotes I agree with and I don't want them to be lost.





As always, links with propositions from my signature. They will get lost when I change it
The issue is, Walery Sławek was member (and in fact leader) of so called "Colonels" party (he was colonel himself after all), and this fraction disintegrated after Marshall Piłsudski Death in '1935. Moreover, by mid may 1936 Sławek was de facto out of politics in Poland. So this focus tree branch is kinda "alt-hist". So in conclusion, I have no idea, what developers have in mind creating this path, and who did they want to include into his "new" faction. Therefore, after second thought maybe Żeligowski isn't that bad for "sanation left" (since at least to my knowledge he was friend of Sławek), but nevertheless, picturing there General Haller is absolutely unnacteptable, even considering the fact it is "alt-hist" branch. Anyway, answearing your question, maybe Bohdan Podolski, or Tadeusz Schaetzel? Are You a Pole maybe?
 
Anyway, answearing your question, maybe Bohdan Podolski, or Tadeusz Schaetzel? Are You a Pole maybe?
Indeed, but politics of that epoch were so complicated... I want to propose small shifts of people in the focuses, but firstly I wanted advices from little more experienced colleagues. Such posts require much time and research I could not spend unfortunately... I will try to dive into it that weekend.

You can check link from my signature what I found for Walery Sławek. Leave Sanation branch (almost) without change. It's great!
 
If Hungary has already taken a different political path and they accept subjugation, will it abandon the political path they took and bypass up to invite the Habsburg prince?


Also, it seems that a good few of Poland's monarchist focuses rely on Hungary restoring the Habsburg. Will the update increase the chances of that happening?
 
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If Hungary has already taken a different political path and they accept subjugation, will it abandon the political path they took and bypass up to invite the Habsburg prince?


Also, it seems that a good few of Poland's monarchist focuses rely on Hungary restoring the Habsburg. Will the update increase the chances of that happening?
Most Polish monarchists in the 1930s wanted dynasties that ruled in other countries (House of Saxe Belgian, House of Savoy) with an absurd monarchy, but also a lot was in favor of creating a new dynasty from former polish noble families.
 
seems like this time you have widely applied the feature of "forcing a country to another branch of focus tree", I wished that could be used on previous countries as well, for example when I have puppet hungary as a fascist, it is pretty annoying to see it is still pushing on the communist branch
 
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Ok, I never ever expected this. After 3 HoI games, where the only thing unique to Baltics was 1940 decision of submit or die, this was totally out of the blue. Thank you!
This is of course a bit biased, but, say, will Latvia get some small spying bonuses? Due to VEF's famous Minox subminiature camera? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minox
P.S.
I love the improved Baltics map, provinces now look fine and logical.
 
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If Hungary has already taken a different political path and they accept subjugation, will it abandon the political path they took and bypass up to invite the Habsburg prince?


Also, it seems that a good few of Poland's monarchist focuses rely on Hungary restoring the Habsburg. Will the update increase the chances of that happening?
It doesn't rely on it because as Habsburg Poland you are the one forcing the Habsburg upon Hungary.
 
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Hey guys, you pointed out what is wrong with assiging different people to particular political and military options. Can you propose changes? Who should be assigned to which focus? Just like MrMcQue below? And like Sir.Dr.X clarified communists?
 
The other common issue facing the Baltics was that they had previously been occupied by the Soviets and Germany, and their industry was sorely lacking. So, the Balts can attract workers to their capital and begin their rearmament and develop their research sector.

...Estonia and Latvia were considerably more industrialised, advanced and wealthier than the USSR. Estonia and Latvia being very industrialized is one of the reasons why those 2 countries were colonised by Russia, Ukrainian and Belarussian immigrants on a large scale while Lithuania received very little immigration after WW2 as it didn't have any industry and was very agrarian compared to Estonia & Latvia.
Those 3 countries cannot be lumped together as they all had several notable differences.

Also, why is there no mention of Finland? There were 4 Baltic states and Finland was called a Baltic state in all diplomatic documents (even the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact). Finland changing its geopolitical position after the 1950's shouldn't influence the timeline of the game as WW2 and its geopolitical influences hadn't happened/finished yet.
 
God Emperor Wojtek when?

They will be called Latvia-Belarus/Estonia-Belarus until they form the Baltic league. Estonia gets one additional state to make its borders contiguous, but aside from that, they're all the same.

In our current build no, but that may change before release.
Estonia has no notable historical (nor cultural/ethnic) connections to Lithuania before WW2 and even less so with Belarus. If we can create a Estonia-Belarus SSR then I think that Lithuania/Latvia should have the possibility to create a joint Lithuanian/Latvian-Finland entity as Finland was considered to be a Baltic state before WW2 although, just like the Estonians, the people aren't Baltic nor culturally connected to the Balts.
 
Hello and welcome to another dev diary for the Barbarossa patch! Today I’m back with you to talk about not one, not two, but three new focus trees coming with the upcoming expansion: Latvia, Lithuania, and Estonia!
View attachment 717411

The Baltic States were in a difficult position in the build-up to world war 2; only recently liberated from Russian and German rule and less than 20 years on from a bloody struggle against both imperialist powers. In the 30s, each of the states had established authoritarian rule in fear of German and Soviet invasions, and a player hoping to survive as a Baltic state must take some extreme measures to overcome these overwhelming odds...

The Baltic States, like the Chinese, will share some branches of their focus tree while other branches will be unique to each country. This week I am going to talk about the shared branches; the industrial branch and the communist political branch.
View attachment 717412

Starting up with the industrial branch, each Baltic state was in something of a similar situation economically; relying heavily on foreign investment and equipment for their industry and armed forces. As such, each Baltic state may decide if they wish to put their faith in the democratic nations to supply their economy, or the Axis powers to fuel the war machine.
View attachment 717413

The other common issue facing the Baltics was that they had previously been occupied by the Soviets and Germany, and their industry was sorely lacking. So, the Balts can attract workers to their capital and begin their rearmament and develop their research sector.
View attachment 717414

Lastly, by modernising their industry, the Baltic states may become much more self-sufficient and end their reliance on foreign powers to fuel their war machine. They may expand raw resource production in their nation, which for Estonia and Latvia means the development of their on-map resources.

Lithuania however was uniquely very reliant on its agriculture, and thus starts the game with a variant of the “Agrarian Society” national spirit which can be slowly turned into a great benefit via their industrial tree.View attachment 717420

Next up, each of the Baltic States had recently endured bloody struggles against the USSR, so popular support for communism was vanishingly low. A Baltic state hoping to overthrow the government and establish an independent communist state must do so through war.
View attachment 717422

The Balts can either choose to rely on the Soviet intervention or attempt to reconcile relations with the Baltic lower classes and try to maintain their independence while establishing communism on their own.
View attachment 717423

Once the revolution is done and your nation is communist, the player will have the option to re-establish the Lithuania-Belarus SSR. In the case you sided with the Soviets, the USSR will grant you their half of Belarus with the rest coming either through war or the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact.
View attachment 717424

If you are independent however, Belarus must be acquired through adversarial means. The Baltic state must propagandise support for unification in Belarus similar to the Spanish Civil War garrison control system. When time runs out, Belarus will be released and fight a civil war; the victor will be annexed into either the victorious Baltic nation or the USSR.
View attachment 717425

The Baltic nation will also be able to try to convert their neighbours to communism through a propaganda war. No matter which path the Baltic player takes to establish socialism across the Baltics; they will be able to form the United Baltic SSR.
View attachment 717427

From there, they may use their newfound strength against Scandinavia and Poland and achieve communism across the entire Baltic Sea.
View attachment 717426
That’s all for the Baltic States this week, next week I will be talking about the entirely unique political trees for each Baltic state.



Something worth bringing up here is we did make some changes to the Polish tree since we last talked about it. Firstly, I do just want to show off some of the new focus icons we got since I wrote those dev diaries and I feel like our artists have done a really great job. There are more, but I don't want to spoil all of them just yet! ;)
View attachment 717428

We originally planned to have Poland get an off-map reactor to essentially get them control of 1 nuke during play as an exile nation. This to reflect their role in the nuclear project, but we were already a bit on the fence on if this was too immersion breaking for the gameplay purpose, and it seemed many of you thought so too so we removed the off-map reactor and moved the focus to the industry branch.
View attachment 717429

Next, I managed to find time to implement Karl Albrecht von Habsburg as an option for monarchist Poland. He has his own branch which involves pressing the Habsburg claim on Czechoslovakia.
View attachment 717430
View attachment 717436

Claiming Czechoslovakia uses the same decision system as claiming Lithuania for the Commonwealth branch, and once the two nations are united, the ambition of West-Slavic unification is realised and the new nation may declare itself protector of the western Slavic peoples living in Germany.
View attachment 717431

Karl Albrecht I was known for the service he provided to the Polish army, and it’s unlikely that willingness to serve would vanish upon becoming King. So, as Soldier-King, he will gain a plethora of unique personality traits as well as becoming a field marshal.
View attachment 717432

With Hungary aligning itself with Poland’s enemies, Karl Albrecht can demand that Horthy step down in favour of Otto von Habsburg and force Hungary down their Habsburg path, diplomatically aligning them with Habsburg Poland.
View attachment 717433

Galicia-Lodomeria represented Habsburg rule over Poland and as such, Karl Albrecht may restore the Diet of Galicia which as well as giving the Royal Sejm national spirit, moves the nation’s capital to Krakow. While this centralises the capital between Poland and Czechoslovakia and surrounds the capital in defensible hills, the old Polish capital is also very close to the German border and may prove an easy target…
View attachment 717434

I feel I should also clarify the mechanics behind electing a monarch. When the Fulfil the 5th of November Act focus is complete, candidates come forward and present themselves to be King. So while it would make little sense for the regency council to reach out and invite candidates like Pavel Bermondt-Avalov to be King, Pavel is certainly the type to try and present himself for King.
View attachment 717435

The final thing I'd like to mention is that during testing we noticed that it was quite a chore to scroll back and forth between the Polish tree with it being so wide, so I implemented a system where the Polish tree automatically compacts itself when you've chosen a political path.
View attachment 717437

That’s all for this week, next week we will be covering the paths unique to each Baltic state and for now I’ll leave you with this teaser.
View attachment 717449
This DLC is going to be poggers
 
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Also, why is there no mention of Finland? There were 4 Baltic states and Finland was called a Baltic state in all diplomatic documents (even the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact). Finland changing its geopolitical position after the 1950's shouldn't influence the timeline of the game as WW2 and its geopolitical influences hadn't happened/finished yet.

You're overemphasizing this. A lot of people considered Finland a Nordic country already well before WW2, and politically 1930s Finland was very much a part of the Nordics and oriented towards Scandinavia. It was probably more of a Russian thing to view Finland as yet another Baltic (area) country, and the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact was instigated and largely engineered by the Russians, so it's not too surprising that Finland is referred to as a Baltic nation in it.
 
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You're overemphasizing this. A lot of people considered Finland a Nordic country already well before WW2, and politically 1930s Finland was very much a part of the Nordics and oriented towards Scandinavia. It was probably more of a Russian thing to view Finland as yet another Baltic (area) country, and the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact was instigated and largely engineered by the Russians, so it's not too surprising that Finland is referred to as a Baltic nation in it.

Do you think that nobody called Finland a Baltic state before the Molotov-Ribbentrip Pact? All Western diplomats and governments called Finland a Baltic state in the 1920's and 1930's, I had to go through diplomatic correspondence during my university studies as I studied history. It definitely wasn't "a Russian thing to view Finland as a Baltic state". But I agree that referring to Estonia & Finland as Baltic doesn't make much sense from a cultural & historical viewpoint.

PDX games project modern views into their games so I'm quite used to situations like this, it is just a minor detail.

A lot of people considered Finland a Nordic country already well before WW2
The same applies to Estonia (before WW2), but that is not the point.

To give a backstory: Estonia being Nordic and having historically strong ties to Scandinavia is the reason why thousands of Danes volunteered to fight for Estonia in 1919 meanwhile there was no such emotions towards Lithuania and Latvia which were actually geographically closer to Denmark. The (social-democratic) Danish government actually limited the number of men allowed to go to Estonia and only a small portion of all volunteers fit into that limit. The amount of volunteers was so big that Denmark was worried that it might appear as taking an offensive action against Russia and joining the war.

Estonians and Finns being Nordic is unrelated to the fact that their countries were geopolitically called Baltic states in the pre-WW2 era and also treated identically by the USSR and Germany until the Winter War.
 
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Do you think that nobody called Finland a Baltic state before the Molotov-Ribbentrip Pact?

No, that's not what "a lot of people" means. Had I claimed everyone considered Finland a Nordic country, then that would mean what you are asking.

All Western diplomats and governments called Finland a Baltic state in the 1920's and 1930's, I had to go through diplomatic correspondence during my university studies as I studied history.

As far as I know this wasn't the case with all Western diplomats and governments, particularly among those of the other Nordic countries. Western Europe and the Anglosphere in the 1920s and 1930s had received their ideas of what Finland is largely from the Russians, less so with the other Nordic countries.
 
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Also, why is there no mention of Finland? There were 4 Baltic states and Finland was called a Baltic state in all diplomatic documents (even the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact). Finland changing its geopolitical position after the 1950's shouldn't influence the timeline of the game as WW2 and its geopolitical influences hadn't happened/finished yet.

In 1922 Finland, Estonia, Latvia and Poland signed the Warsaw Accord - also know in Finnish 'reunavaltiosopimus' or in English literally 'a border state treaty'. Particularly due to the Polish motion, this treaty had an intention to create a counter reaction for the German and Soviet economic and political supremacy in the north- and northeastern Europe.

However, this treaty failed as the Finnish Parliament never ratified it and in 1935 Finland ultimately resigned the Warsaw Accord and instead announced supporting neutrality and the Nordic tendency from now on.
 
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