HOI4 Dev Diary - The Intelligence Agency

[Iskulya]

I am hoping but doubting your estimate.
I'd go for march / may

There's no reason it would take longer than Man the Guns. Man the Gun's changes to the navy required MUCH more from the AI. Mechanically MtG also would seem to have required even more under the hood work than espionage as well.

 

[>_Fkscorpion]

This might be a stupid question, but about the new Button Icons: Will this break backward mod compatibility with the "Coloured Buttons" Mod?

What I mean is: I sometimes like to switch back to an older Patch, e.g. 1.6. And there the mod still works. Will it still work, after it has been adjustet to the new Icons?

 

[SnakeInATopHat]

nice?

 

[Riekopo]

Very happy that this kind of thing is being added to the game. There were so many spies and operations that took place. Can you create multiple Agencies? Because every nation had multiple agencies. The Abwehr was just one of the German agencies for example. Can we name the Branches and give them their own icons?

I hope that Double Agents are a thing because there was a lot of that going on. The British turned tons of German agents into double agents. The British Intel was so far ahead of everyone else. They moped the floor with the Germans in terms of Intel. In fact, the German Abwehr was being run by a guy Admiral Canaris who hated Hitler and undermined the Nazis at every turn. He was eventually executed.

I hope the game mechanics make this kind of thing possible. I hope that your agents can go on Commando raids and sabotage research and sabotage facilities. And I hope agents can gather intel on defenses like was done before D-Day. It would also be cool if you could create decoy/phantom Divisions and air forces like the British did to trick the Germans before D-Day.

I hope it is possible to steal your enemies code machines and codebooks so you can find out where their forces are and where they are going. At least a general idea. The British pretty much knew where all the German submarines were once they got the Enigma machine I think. It would be awesome if you could see your enemies battleplans if you have enough intel. Also, making decoy battleplans to trick the enemy would be awesome too.

Intel could end up being very cool in multiplayer.

 

[him_15]

Spy finally!

 

[BlackPrince]

The Agency

Finally a field in which Poland will be number 1. Unless you screwed up your intel again before adding this feature. -.-

 

[PARAfel]

(a historical name will be suggested)

The logo will be historical suggested by the game too?

 

[blackpowder320]

Japan will probably be a bit behind (as is historical) given their position. A player can turn that around tho I think

@podcat, I think Japan could be competent in terms of offensive espionage techniques since the Kempeitai had agents all across Asia and the Pacific.

On defensive espionage and encryption, however... we all know what happened.

 

[Alexs220]

Why is there still a Comintern in the game as a Military alliance? It never existed as such. Furthermore during the war USSR joined the Allies, this should be represented. USSR being another faction is Ahistorical and prevents Allies from things like Plane stationing on Russian airbases like it historically happened:
Operation Frantic,
No. 151 Wing RAF,
Normandie-Niemen
And yes, i know that USSR was different and played its own game politically, but it can be represented in other ways, or make USSR exit allies after WW2 ends.

 

[DukofDeth]

If the factory costs could be lend-leased, that would help those nations with too small an industrial base [or having lost theirs] to build up their intelligence networks, though that could come at the cost of having the lender seeing what they're seeing, even if not formally allied. This would allow Soviet Russia to support Communist China even if the PRC was in another faction.

I wouldn't be so quick to eliminate encryption/decryption from the engineering techs, as the military forces and diplomatic services would have needed ciphers to protect their communications, yet the intelligence services would have developed even more encryption - either encryption to further encrypt already encrypted messages, or a variety of codes to send covert messages [such as one-time codes] - above and beyond what was already available to them; they wouldn't want their own people able to easily decode their spies' messages.

It may be time for money [or an abstract akin to it] to be included, as one of the best ways to recruit spies is to buy them. Money could be used to represent long-term costs, such as the cost of running many agents and having many enemy agents as doubles, as well as more mundane issues like the cost of maintaining a large military - troops have to be paid, though truly "volunteer" forces [even if they are volunteering at the encouragement of gunpoint] could be unpaid. Pay for soldiers and sailors could play into unit morale, and also how well supported they are. American troops, for example, were paid more than British troops, and had more support available [though their logistics system was not always able to get critical supplies through]. Unless you are willing to fractionalize factory usage, using factories as "money" too often will eventually put a strain on production.

While Political Power could represent money, in a way, there are already too many things that tap into that, and PP production has been nerfed for many nations over many iterations of the game; using that as "money" coupled with an increase to PP production would unbalance the options that already require PP to enact. Using money instead - or alongside PP - would allow for an increase to political resources without unbalancing the system already in place.

For start-up costs, I do agree to factory use, though there should also be a "money" cost, too.

 

[Achab]

I believe commies shall get significant boost to the intelligence gathering, after all their ideology is international and they have comrades everywhere.

Fascist are on the other hand suspicious of other fascists, as they are nationalist in nature ... especially in the case of neigbouring countries, where they stand in a way of each others expansion.

Democracies and non-aligned are rotten with corruption, making them easy target for espionage.

 

[Fyrion]

On the rejected titles, "HOI4 - Mirai Nikki" - Too tsundere

 

[Secret Master]

Like how am I supposed to imagine paying the price in civilian factories in order to make my spies better? This is beyond absurd for me.

That's an excellent point. How could factories possibly make your intelligence operatives better at their jobs? What manufactured items are used in spycraft? In fact, I'm quite sure no manufactured items (that is, things made in factories) were used in espionage during WWII.

For example, things that weren't using factory made items were espionage items involved in gathering and using SIGINT. To help decrypt SIGINT, you might need some kind of... device. Perhaps a machine? But they obviously didn't use those things in WWII. The technology to create mechanical computers simply didn't exist.

(Unrelated picture of a bombe from Bletchley Park used to decrypt ENIGMA ciphers. Such a device would have required items manufactured in factories.)

Then there's ENIGMA, the famous German method of encrypting her transmissions. As we all know, ENIGMA machines were created on small farms using wood, manure, and hay. I want to emphasize my agreement with your point: at no time were factories used to make ENIGMA machines.

(An unrelated picture of an ENIGMA machine that uses clearly manufactured machine parts that came from factories, not hay or manure.)

Of course, HUMINT is as important as SIGINT. And training operatives is a big deal. All covert operatives in WWII were trained in existing facilities and never used equipment. It's called human intelligence, not machine intelligence. This isn't Stellaris, after all. So, there really would be no need for any manufactured items for covert operatives working for organizations like the OSS.

(Unrelated picture of a BEANO T-13 grenade developed by Eastman Kodak, a civilian company that would be represented by CIC in HOI4, for use by the OSS during WWII. Note the clearly manufactured portions of this device.)

Of course, record keeping is an important part of the espionage game. Paper was used during WWII to facilitate record keeping. Many intelligence services used paper to fight the war. Now, we all know paper is made in specialized factories, but I think we can all agree that paper is so insignificant that it cannot be really thought of as a manufactured item on scale with factories in HOI4.

(Unrelated picture of propaganda telling Brits to save their paper so that Britain could build more Wellington bombers. Note that Britain made sorting waste compulsory in 1942, and people not sorting their paper for recycling could face time in prison or heavy fines. The compulsory recycling of paper did not end until after 1947.)

So, I think I can say that there is no possible use for CIC in helping your intelligence services do their jobs or to expand their capabilities. It's absurd that podcat would even suggest such a mechanic.

 

[Reinner]

Why is there still a Comintern in the game as a Military alliance? It never existed as such. Furthermore during the war USSR joined the Allies, this should be represented. USSR being another faction is Ahistorical and prevents Allies from things like Plane stationing on Russian airbases like it historically happened:
Operation Frantic,
No. 151 Wing RAF,
Normandie-Niemen
And yes, i know that USSR was different and played its own game politically, but it can be represented in other ways, or make USSR exit allies after WW2 ends.

USSR is not in the Allies for the same reason why Japan is not in the Axis anymore. It doesn't work well with the game mechanics. If they wouldn't have their own faction Allies would immediately call them into war once Germany would invade Poland and it would also screw up several other things like Finland joining the Axis during Winter War because they got invaded by a major member of the Allies.

 

[Ethereld]

That's an excellent point. How could factories possibly make your intelligence operatives better at their jobs? What manufactured items are used in spycraft? In fact, I'm quite sure no manufactured items (that is, things made in factories) were used in espionage during WWII.

For example, things that weren't using factory made items were espionage items involved in gathering and using SIGINT. To help decrypt SIGINT, you might need some kind of... device. Perhaps a machine? But they obviously didn't use those things in WWII. The technology to create mechanical computers simply didn't exist.

(Unrelated picture of a bombe from Bletchley Park used to decrypt ENIGMA ciphers. Such a device would have required items manufactured in factories.)

Then there's ENIGMA, the famous German method of encrypting her transmissions. As we all know, ENIGMA machines were created on small farms using wood, manure, and hay. I want to emphasize my agreement with your point: at no time were factories used to make ENIGMA machines.

(An unrelated picture of an ENIGMA machine that uses clearly manufactured machine parts that came from factories, not hay or manure.)

Of course, HUMINT is as important as SIGINT. And training operatives is a big deal. All covert operatives in WWII were trained in existing facilities and never used equipment. It's called human intelligence, not machine intelligence. This isn't Stellaris, after all. So, there really would be no need for any manufactured items for covert operatives working for organizations like the OSS.

(Unrelated picture of a BEANO T-13 grenade developed by Eastman Kodak, a civilian company that would be represented by CIC in HOI4, for use by the OSS during WWII. Note the clearly manufactured portions of this device.)

Of course, record keeping is an important part of the espionage game. Paper was used during WWII to facilitate record keeping. Many intelligence services used paper to fight the war. Now, we all know paper is made in specialized factories, but I think we can all agree that paper is so insignificant that it cannot be really thought of as a manufactured item on scale with factories in HOI4.

(Unrelated picture of propaganda telling Brits to save their paper so that Britain could build more Wellington bombers. Note that Britain made sorting waste compulsory in 1942, and people not sorting their paper for recycling could face time in prison or heavy fines. The compulsory recycling of paper did not end until after 1947.)

So, I think I can say that there is no possible use for CIC in helping your intelligence services do their jobs or to expand their capabilities. It's absurd that podcat would even suggest such a mechanic.

This it's the greatest piece of sarcasm I have seem in a long time. I take my hat off in front of you. But yeah, people complain about CIC but are totally ok with throwing 300 gold in CK2 to get a new building without any manpower cost or accidents that could delay the construction.

 

[Abadon777]

Good lead-in diary to the espionage expansion and it looks like there's a lot more to cover. What operations can be covered in commando raids, for example destruction of factories, airplanes, tanks or infrastructures?

 

[valentin4]

There's no reason it would take longer than Man the Guns. Man the Gun's changes to the navy required MUCH more from the AI. Mechanically MtG also would seem to have required even more under the hood work than espionage as well.

What worries me is that podcat is saying a lot of stuff in the dlc is still open to change, making me imagine there is quite a bit of time to wait. Then again, we are used to the development of hoi4 being so slow ( 3 focus trees in one year expansion ? Ok i guess...)

 

[safe-keeper]

Will you be increasing the civilian factory base of the countries in the game?, I'm of the impression that, especially minor countries, have a hard time keeping up with so many features that require civilian factories (production licenses, buying resources, decisions, events, etc)

So minors are less OP, good stuff.

 

[Alexs220]

USSR is not in the Allies for the same reason why Japan is not in the Axis anymore. It doesn't work well with the game mechanics. If they wouldn't have their own faction Allies would immediately call them into war once Germany would invade Poland and it would also screw up several other things like Finland joining the Axis during Winter War because they got invaded by a major member of the Allies.

Its easy. Make Russia start with no faction, and make it join Allies only when USSR is attcked.

 

[Ramage]

• Passive Defense - This boosts your agencies counterintelligence rating which together with Operatives help you defend against enemy Operatives.

I notice that the graphic for this (and others) includes round circles... I guess you can have multiple levels in this field - eg level 5 defence and level 3 machine encryption... eventually.