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Imperator Dev Diary, 10th of February 2020

Hi all,

As the eagle-eyed amongst you noticed last week, I included a subtle hint upon the subject of today’s DD.

Accompanying the Deity rework that you have already been introduced to, we’re working on a dynamic Holy Sites feature. In keeping with the organic way that Pantheons and deities work, we wanted holy sites to be entirely within player control - something you could dedicate, destroy, and utilise, without having a strict, pre-existing list of sites from day 1.


How will they work?

Any territory can be designated a Holy Site to a Deity which exists as part of your pantheon, and which does not currently have a designated Holy Site. The territory needs to be of the same dominant parent religion as the deity, and there will be a substantial cost for doing so. There can only be one holy site for a deity in the world (consider them a parent temple): if you want to acquire the site for a deity in your pantheon yet it is owned by someone else, you’ll need to resort to more violent means.

If you own and control the holy site dedicated to a deity, the passive and active effects of that deity will be increased. They will have a ‘level’ which is tied directly to the city status of the territory in which they are placed. This ties into some further goodies which I’ll explain more about in a future diary.

You can, of course own holy sites dedicated to Deities that are not part of your pantheon, though you will receive no additional bonuses for doing so.


What about historical sites?

There will be a bunch of pre-scripted holy sites such as the temple of Apollo at Delphi, or the Asclepeion at Epidaurus. Many deities will not have pre-scripted sites.


Can we destroy holy sites, once they’re created?

You will be able to desecrate holy sites, effectively removing the dedication for ephemeral bonuses, and allowing the site to be rededicated elsewhere. This will harm your relations with countries who worship this deity as part of their pantheon.


As a bonus, here’s a WIP wireframe of how your new Religion View might look, after the 1.4 update:


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Next week, we’ll be back to have a look at some of the Missions that will be coming as part of the paid Content Pack: Magna Graecia, that will accompany the 1.4 release, as well as a look at the revised holdings mechanic, which contains a new take on character land ownership.
 
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The publich branch beta doesn´t change anything so far we might get beta in the future. The other betas are just older versions e.g when you want to continue to play on an older save
I'm not talking about the ones with previous patch numbers. I know about those. I'm talking about the beta in the beta tab whihc just is called beta. I.e. not the ones with version numbers, but the one just called beta.
 
1. No, with the amount of deities in the game, this is not even remotely feasible.
2. Probably.
3. No.

In response to the first answer:

1) can we throw money at you for flavour DLC to include things like more unique deity graphics (or selected digital distributors, I don't think I can throw that far)
2) can it be opened up for diversification through mods?

Holy sites look cool. 10/10 would desecrate again.
 
In response to the first answer:

1) can we throw money at you for flavour DLC to include things like more unique deity graphics (or selected digital distributors, I don't think I can throw that far)
2) can it be opened up for diversification through mods?

Holy sites look cool. 10/10 would desecrate again.

1. Maybe?
2. The system supports individual icons per deity if you feel like modding it that way, and have several thousand spare hours of painting time.
 
1. Maybe?
2. The system supports individual icons per deity if you feel like modding it that way, and have several thousand spare hours of painting time.

1: Yayyy I mean I would prefer a maybe! than a Maybe? but I can live with that :p
2: I'll do it all in MS paint but I'm sure some others can do better than me!
 
Hi all,
Accompanying the Deity rework that you have already been introduced to, we’re working on a dynamic Holy Sites feature. In keeping with the organic way that Pantheons and deities work, we wanted holy sites to be entirely within player control - something you could dedicate, destroy, and utilise, without having a strict, pre-existing list of sites from day 1.
.

Shouldn't there be some more dynamic mechanics for this? Like for example investing money and prestige into site that would in time replace old one as main holy site? Also that could intermarry with mechanics for merging deities from different cultures...
 
Hi all,
Next week, we’ll be back to have a look at some of the Missions that will be coming as part of the paid Content Pack: Magna Graecia, that will accompany the 1.4 release, as well as a look at the revised holdings mechanic, which contains a new take on character land ownership.

So it begins... The price of this pack better be symbolic.
 
One thing I haven't really seen talked about yet is the role of religious institutions and priesthoods. The role of these institutions varied from nation to nation but they often wielded significant social and political power with top positions occupied by the nobility. These positions were usually either appointed by the ruler (similar to other government positions) or even assumed by the ruler themselves (as both head priest and ruler). A number of religions also revered the ruler as a deity or a divine manifestation (Egyptian Pharoahs for example or Rome would posthumously deify Julius Caesar).

These institutions are important because they wielded significant political influence and some cases even held administrative, legal, and judicial duties. It's also worth noting that these institutions controlled the sacrifices and omens and rituals that political rulers used to legitimize their endeavors. Making sacrifices and reading omens was necessary for everything from appointing heirs, to starting a major construction project, to declaring war. A bad omen would very quickly sink an endeavor before it even began so it was very important for rulers to ensure omens were positive by appointing loyal nobles and making key "donations" to the priesthood.
 
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I'm not talking about the ones with previous patch numbers. I know about those. I'm talking about the beta in the beta tab whihc just is called beta. I.e. not the ones with version numbers, but the one just called beta.
Thats what I was refering to in my first part. If you select it you will see there are no changes so far but we might get some beta stuff in the future again
 
How will this System work for the Roman Model of Syncretism, where every local god was kinda just "assimilated" into a Roman god/equated to one?
I mean it is most obvious with teh Greeko/Roman Gods. Where the Roman side is basically a Carbon Copy of a Greek ones. I think people still mix up the Roman and the Greek Naming for some of them. I know I do.
Roman to a Greek: "Your god Zeus? Yeah, we know him as Jupiter."

But actually they did that in less obvious cases too:
"When they described the gods of Celtic and Germanic tribes, rather than considering them separate deities, the Romans interpreted them as local manifestations or aspects of their own gods, a cultural trait called the interpretatio Romana. Mercury, in particular, was reported as becoming extremely popular among the nations the Roman Empire conquered; Julius Caesar wrote of Mercury being the most popular god in Britain and Gaul, regarded as the inventor of all the arts.[8] This is probably because, in the Roman syncretism, Mercury was equated with the Celtic god Lugus, and in this aspect was commonly accompanied by the Celtic goddess Rosmerta. Although Lugus may originally have been a deity of light or the sun (though this is disputed), similar to the Roman Apollo, his importance as a god of trade made him more comparable to Mercury, and Apollo was instead equated with the Celtic deity Belenus.[5]

Romans associated Mercury with the Germanic god Wotan, by interpretatio Romana; 1st-century Roman writer Tacitus identifies him as the chief god of the Germanic peoples." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury_(mythology)#Syncretism

Roman to newly conqured People: "Your god Hermes/Lugus/Wotan/Belenus/Rosmerta? Yeah, we know him/her as Mercury."

And apparently before them, the Greeks already did that:
"Herodotus was one of the earliest authors to engage in this form of interpretation. In his observations regarding the Egyptians, he establishes Greco-Egyptian equivalents that endured into the Hellenistic era, including Amon/Zeus, Osiris/Dionysus, and Ptah/Hephaestus. In his observations regarding the Scythians, he equates their queen of the gods, Tabiti, to Hestia, Papaios and Api to Zeus and Gaia respectively, and Argimpasa to Aphrodite Urania, whilst also claiming that the Scythians worshipped equivalents to Herakles and Ares, but which he doesn't name."

I guess specific questions are:
Would Jupiter be close enough to Zeus, to placate some of the Zeus believers?
Or would it be easier to convert between the two?
You already incidacted a certain overlap of Symbols. Would they use similar Symbols?
What about these Egyptian/Greek pairs: Amon/Zeus, Osiris/Dionysus, and Ptah/Hephaestus?
What about cases like the 3+ different Interpretations/Aspects of Aphrodite? That woman had so many Ephitepts, half of them totally different Godesses.
 
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Thats really great.
I do hope, that as Rome I can make a mixed pantheon of hellenic, gallic, egyptian and germanic gods.
All coming with their own desecrated original holy site and reestablished somwhere near rome.
Speaking of holy sites, is their a benefit to host it in your country?
 
1. Maybe?
2. The system supports individual icons per deity if you feel like modding it that way, and have several thousand spare hours of painting time.

Just to throw some marketing information your way: I would readily throw down €5 for a set of unique hellenic (or other religious group) diety portraits. If it were to include some 3d art for unique sanctuaries I could see this increase.

I am very much in favour of adding more unique art in game. I quite like the art (and music) style and I'd love to see more of it. Also because I having a hard time of replicating a suitable art style fro in game. ^^ (Cosmetic DLCs are also by far the best kind of DLCs, as they are completely optional.)

Lastly I want to say that I wasn't a particular fan of this religion change in the beginning, but I've come around and feel this is a very good change. I'm looking forward to it. Kudos
 
Speaking of holy sites, is their a benefit to host it in your country?
This is mentioned:

If you own and control the holy site dedicated to a deity, the passive and active effects of that deity will be increased. They will have a ‘level’ which is tied directly to the city status of the territory in which they are placed. This ties into some further goodies which I’ll explain more about in a future diary.
 
Thanks for the reply.

It was more the desecrating of holy sites and the opinion impact of that. I don't recall any incident of that in ancient history - the desecration and the collective outrage from that via other nations.

In anything Rome was an interesting example of it being multi-faith, how it incorporated various different religions from different parts of Europe and the Med into its pantheon.

Just to name one Alexander destroyed the whole city of Persopolis as revenge for the destruction of the athenian acropolis during the persians wars
 
If the DLC will be paid, will hosts of multiplayer games be able to share their DLC with players in their games? Or will every player have to own and activate the DLC, as is presently the case with the Punic Wars?
That is actually not the case presently. Just as with all current Paradox Games, the DLCs in use for any multiplayer is dictated by the DLCs that the host owns. Punic Wars included (have tested this personally already)

Fix the game before adding a paid DLC. We still in beta stages...

So it begins... The price of this pack better be symbolic.

Oh give it a rest. Firstly, game is fixed. Imperator is a lot of fun to play right now. Does it have some issues and things that could be worked on? Sure. Just like all Paradox games they improve over time... and with regards to the specific DLC policies of the various games, it looks like Imperators is going to have the most consumer friendly one of the lot. No mechanics are being locked behind a paywall, no map changes, no races or playable countries. No essential QOL improvements. What is being locked behind a paywall is some flavour and art assets for a small portion of the world.

The game has to have DLC, that is the business model and this game is not sustainable without one... to make it so that DLCs don't impact the way one plays the game through locking mechanics behind paywalls is about as consumer friendly as it gets. To complain about it is lunacy.
 
This could make the desecrate holy sites achievement more interesting:
Megalithic doesn't have a holy site yet? Throw money at them. Lots of money. Wait until they build one. Invade. Tear it down.
 
That is actually not the case presently. Just as with all current Paradox Games, the DLCs in use for any multiplayer is dictated by the DLCs that the host owns. Punic Wars included (have tested this personally already)
And if this would happen please make sure to post about it on the bug forums because it should never be the case.