• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

Imperator Dev Diary - 8/19/2019

Welcome back to another Dev Diary for Imperator: Rome!

Once again, we’ll be covering some information that those of you using the open beta branch will already have been playing with.


Monarch Power

Before we dive in to the mechanics and solutions behind the monarch power rework, I’d like to explain a little bit about the impetus behind the changes, and the varying factors at play.

One of the more controversial aspects of the game at release, was the implementation of Monarch Power. After reading reams of feedback on the subject, and considering the available options, we elected to look at reworking the entire concept of Monarch Power in the Cicero update.

The community issues with the 1.0 monarch power system could broadly be boiled down into two main categories:

  • The lack of control over the stats that your monarch or ruler has.
  • The inconsistency of the varying purposes power was intended to be used for.

In essence, we needed a system that acted as an anti-snowballing mechanic, felt like something a player had control over, and which avoided any unnecessary abstraction both conceptually and in terms of practical use.

Enter Political Influence. PI is intended to represent exactly what it describes: the influence that a government or nation has over their own political establishment.

The way in which it is produced is also related directly to the political establishment. Each primary Office holder in your nation will contribute to the PI gain of your nation, based on their loyalty to your cause. The more loyal your cabinet, the more practical power you will have to perform the various actions associated with PI.

Which leads me comfortably to the next topic we covered as part of the power rework, and point two of the community issues surrounding Monarch Power. A huge variety of actions that previously had a token power cost, have been redesigned to use one of our newer, more dynamic resources. Tyranny, Stability, Political Influence, Corruption and even Aggressive Expansion have a more clear-cut purpose; the logical solution was to use these to represent the consequences of your actions, rather than attach an abstract cost:value ratio to things such as Bribery, selection of National Ideas, inviting investment, and more.

fW70_Q2z_glToyo4iaBIQ8aBamgWbJ9RM9EsPjCJoVoBTttQORBCbqebTU2y2wHoMQm5q4W_Fb2957uShsvUmJQkcNVt7KbZ-D2Xjf4v7z6gaiHacOM33OR27rNDT1k_zDxHsUTJ



Of course, there are still actions that demand the use of more conventional currency. Gold still plays a large part in a functional government of Antiquity, perhaps even more so in the Cicero update. The power cost for inventions, for example, has been replaced with a scaling gold cost, representing the direct cost of investment into research and development:

aaw8XyPNLxxqHE5T6CdC00FklB2uCamdo_QtRTdidrmrRfnYWfpL5I8jjNZreVAML_288uRatfgWV9DezgCW-J3jIVfY3reg8rexo26NkEELajSvr2Am8LCnUEvZB1lf42eLFFq6



In addition to reworks to the cost of many actions and abilities, it became quickly apparent that many actions needed no cost at all, and functioned as their own opportunity cost, or had a consequential cost. An example of this would be the Assault ability for armies; the manpower lost during an assault vastly outweighed any token power cost, and as such, has no action cost in Cicero. Citing an example of opportunity cost, Omens will no longer have an up-front price; the opportunity cost comes of being tied to your chosen omen for the entire duration, unable to switch or cancel the ongoing omen.

The one instance that we felt was not covered by any of our new or old systems, was the Military Tradition mechanic. This needed something unique, and as such, we needed a unique method by which to unlock and acquire traditions.

It felt appropriate to treat Traditions as a self-contained system, and the Cicero update will include a Military Experience resource. This will be generated over time at a modest base rate, but is modified by the average combat experience level of your national cohorts.

Military Drill is introduced alongside this, as a way for armies to maintain a certain level of experience during peacetime. The employment of Mercenary forces will detract from a nation’s Military Experience gain, but have been made vastly cheaper to maintain, to compensate for this.


og2DbFAmWzOMnM05M1API_DvWt0Moxw3FTlalnx4k1qzou9Bb3ghf-ifhiiylOl5iGjGibgfD5fHufRj8yzr46rg9oCEZe_F444RL7m_jXGTFXMT0yatn0DUCFSMBVpWlyRvu1dl



Rulers will not be entirely without merit in the Cicero update, with each of the four statistics granting you bonuses to certain stats, scaled by the value of the stat itself:
  • Martial: Manpower Recovery and Land Morale Recovery
  • Finesse: Commerce Modifier and Build Cost
  • Charisma: Monthly Tyranny Decay and Claim Fabrication speed
  • Zeal: Monthly Stability Increase and War Exhaustion Decay

A skilled ruler will therefore still be important to a state, and a weak one will be noticeably less potent.

To conclude, we realised early on in the testing cycle for these changes, that it felt more organic, dynamic, and most importantly fun, to utilise resources in this way. That said, if you wish to be the judges of this yourselves, the open beta for the Cicero update is still underway, we invite you to try it out!

/Arheo
 
  • 3Like
  • 1Love
Reactions:
It felt appropriate to treat Traditions as a self-contained system, and the Cicero update will include a Military Experience resource. This will be generated over time at a modest base rate, but is modified by the average combat experience level of your national cohorts.

Without having played the beta it seems to be an arduous task to keep the average experience level high in a big empire. Usually there are always some stacks standing around and waiting for barbarians or helping the governour keeping the order. Only a part is involved in conquering and gaining experience. Thinking that you have to keep them all drilled seems like really a lot of work with not much fun involved. Do governours drill their armies themselves? What is the experience from people playing the beta on this?
 
From trying the beta as Rome, the first thing I did was to buy every single invention. Once that was done (the starting treasury was enough to buy 11/12 of them), I proceeded to expand, this way I avoid the increase in the prize of the inventions.

I don't think inventions is something you should pay with money, these are technology after all. Why not have inventions have a chance to be invented, based on your advancements, the research output / research cost ratio, and the skill of the characters assigned to research?
How I interpret it is that the inventions that are buyable are already invented by the researchers, the only thing you are paying for is to implement this in your society. More pops is more to implement so more money will be needed.
 
The whole research system could need an overhaul, inventions are just click to pay to get a bonus while research system itself lead to stuff such as massive empires begin very behind in technology compared to city states. It is not a number 1 issue but it is something that eventually should be looked at.

An easy fix:
Count only POPs living in cities/metropoles for technology, and exclude slaves from the cost equation.
 
Cheers for the DD Arheo :) I'm not in the open beta (a bit crook atm, want to play things that are a bit more settled as that usually means less thinky) so I'm only going on what you've posted, but that definitely sounds more intuitive and organic. One of the things that got me with I:R on launch was that a lot of things felt really arbitrary and took away from immersion, while not necessarily adding to gameplay (or, in some cases, making it a micro nightmare - something the population changes mentioned in other DDs look to have gone a long way towards), rather than helped the game feel fun as a game or 'ancient world' in theme. So, in short, great work :D.
 
So I have an issue with scaling costs.

If the cost of an action scales in a to linear fashion compared to the things that generate the resource being spent then you get a really unsatisfying feeling as you grow because you are still basically restricted to the same amount of actions as you were before you grew. This feels like the case in I:R currently with many of the scaling costs. Ideally the cost should scale at a slower rate to your power growth giving the player a sense of real advancement.

Invention cost scales with income, as do salaries (although you do have direct control over how many salaries you want to pay!), but your other monetary expenses don't. Increasing your income while keeping your military/construction expenditures the same will allow you to buy more inventions. It becomes a choice for the player how much money they want to devote to military/salaries/construction and how much to save for inventions, a little bit like a tech slider without being a slider.
 
One question/sugestion regarding military experience:
Wouldnt it make more sense to give bigger boost to military exp to the LOSING side of war/battle? I know it's counter-intuitive, but historicaly, if something worked then the army wasnt changing. Rome started to add corvus on their ships only after few major losses with cartagine fleet, same with manipular system, which was adapted after roman phalanx was beaten few times by samnites, not the other way around. That would also help with snowballing, because smaller nations would develop better armies faster than big empires (because those have more cash to burn on drilling in the current system).

That'll be nice. Maybe the side with less ME gains more ME after the battle? Like a bonus, the troops are learning from a superior enemy?
 
+1

I would prefer a system, where omens lead to dynamical event chains. And we can only choose which raw direction (to which god) this event chain will go.
No instant or permanent bonus but dynamic events which can not only give bonus but also malus ;)

f.e.
if you call for an omen to your factions "commerce god" an if you improve your commerce efforts in the "omen duration" there could be events like "a merchand has found a dog fucking a bird, which is clear message from god XYZ and has told this story all about your country.
All merchants are encouraged by this sign of the god (you gain 15% commerce eff.)

...but if you act against the commercial path (f.e. declare war on trade partners), you could suffer a mighty revenge from this god...like the bird fucking the dog (-35% commerce eff.)

Completely agreed. Omens in this game are even worse than EU-Rome, where they were at least randomized (even if they were bland there as well). I get the reasoning behind making them always positive to prevent frustration that EU-Rome system created,...but now they are just cheap "click button for instant easy boost for map painting, and forget for X number of years" thing that plagued EU4.

I hope omens are reworked soon, along with rest of the religions. Oracles for Greco-Roman faith, massive Yagya ceremonies for Indian religions and closely related Zoroastrian fire sacrifices, and so on should have event chains to predict whether or not offerings were successful and if blesssings were granted by the deity and such.

Romans had an overzealous belief in auguries and auspices, and such things weren't always "successful". We already have many related events in the game, they just need to rework the omens to proceed in the same way. :)
 
Last edited:
+1

I would prefer a system, where omens lead to dynamical event chains. And we can only choose which raw direction (to which god) this event chain will go.
No instant or permanent bonus but dynamic events which can not only give bonus but also malus ;)

f.e.
if you call for an omen to your factions "commerce god" an if you improve your commerce efforts in the "omen duration" there could be events like "a merchand has found a dog fucking a bird, which is clear message from god XYZ and has told this story all about your country.
All merchants are encouraged by this sign of the god (you gain 15% commerce eff.)

...but if you act against the commercial path (f.e. declare war on trade partners), you could suffer a mighty revenge from this god...like the bird fucking the dog (-35% commerce eff.)

That could be interesting, but I'd personally settle for an omen system whereby an omen is comprised of 2 phases. The initial phase lasting 2-6 months where there is a HUGE bonus. And then a long tail second phase where it provides a modest bonus (like it does now).
Then it would become a tradeoff between holding the omen open in case of special circumstances that warrant a sudden massive bonus to counteract, vs missing out on the persistent bonus over time.
So say for example, that HALF of the bonus of an omen over the total duration occurs in the first 6 months. That gives you a huge influx of whatever the desired outcome is right now, but leaves you vulnerable afterwards if other sudden circumstances arise.
 
An easy fix:
Count only POPs living in cities/metropoles for technology, and exclude slaves from the cost equation.

Very good idea!
I would still count POPs living in every settlement, otherwise it is really easy to abuse.
But removing slaves of the equation makes playing tall more interesting, and reduce the drawbacks of getting slaves from warfare.
Also, it is very simple to implement.

Completely agreed. Omens in this game are even worse than EU-Rome, where they were at least randomized (even if they were bland there as well). I get the reasoning behind making them always positive to prevent frustration that EU-Rome system created,...but now they are just cheap "click button for instant easy boost for map painting, and forget for X number of years" thing that plagued EU4.

Yup! Omens are really off at the moment.
But realistically, such rework would make more sense for a DLC than for the very next updates.
I feel there are more urgent/important issues in the game at the moment, such as diplomacy for instance.
 
Last edited:
Very good idea!
I would still count POPs living in every settlement, otherwise it is really easy to abuse.
But removing slaves of the equation makes playing tall more interesting, and reduce the drawbacks of getting slaves from warfare.
Also, it is very simple to implement.
You're right, I thought of it later, wouldn't work with tribes/uncivilized either.
 
Does the beta already have all the Cicero features?

There's nothing certain, and Johan might throw something out of his magic hat in the next days...
Yet, because they want Cicero out in September, and there is still some tuning/balance to be done, I think we can expect the current Cicero iteration to be feature full.
 
Does the beta already have all the Cicero features?

Everything that has been talked about by devs, yes. Though we can only speculate as far as additional changes between now and live cicero - there are various issues that arguably call for spme more changes - not just tweaks.
 
So I have an issue with scaling costs.

If the cost of an action scales in a to linear fashion compared to the things that generate the resource being spent then you get a really unsatisfying feeling as you grow because you are still basically restricted to the same amount of actions as you were before you grew. This feels like the case in I:R currently with many of the scaling costs. Ideally the cost should scale at a slower rate to your power growth giving the player a sense of real advancement.
If it's a countrywide bonus like intentions the cost should scale (since it makes sense that it would cost more to implement an invention empirewide) but other things like founding a new city shouldn't scale in cost (or scale with something else like local civilisation value).