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Stellaris Dev Diary #100 - Titans and Planet Destroyers

Hello everyone and welcome to this very special triple digit Stellaris development diary! Today's dev diary marks the start of talking about the Apocalypse Expansion that will be accompanying the 2.0 'Cherryh' update. We still can't give you an ETA on the release of either, and there's a fair bit to cover in the expansion before then, but we're getting closer. As this is the start of talking about paid features, I just want to take a moment to reiterate that everything talked about in dev diaries 91-99 (with the exception of Dev Diary #95 which was about Humanoids) were about the Cherryh update and all features and changes mentioned in these previous dev diaries are part of the free update, NOT the expansion. Everything mentioned in this dev diary will be part of the paid Apocalypse expansion, however. Please note that some of the screenshots in this dev diary feature placeholder art and icons.


Planet Destroyers (Apocalypse Feature)
As mentioned all the way back in Dev Diary #50 and again in Dev Diary #69, Planet Destroyers have been on our wish list for quite some time, but wasn't something we could make work with restrictive nature of the old warscore system. Now that this is no longer a concern thanks to the new war system we talked about in Dev Diary #93, we finally have our chance to implement this beloved sci-fi staple.

Planet Destroyers come in the form of a new ship class called a Colossus. Though nominally a military ship, the Colossus has no actual fleet combat capability, but is instead a single massive weapon solely dedicated to the purpose of laying waste to enemy planets. To build a Colossus, you must first already know how to build Titans (more on those below) and then take the Colossus Project Ascension Perk, which unlocks a special project to research and design your first Colossus. Each Colossus mounts a single World Devastator-class weapon, and during the course of the project you will be given the option to choose which such weapon you want to focus on, with five potential options to choose from:
  • World Cracker: Shatters a planet, leaving behind a broken debris field that can be mined for resources. Available to non-Pacifists.
  • Global Pacifier: Encases the planet in an impenetrable shield, permanently cutting it off from the rest of the galaxy. A research station can be built to study the planet afterwards.
  • Neutron Sweep: Destroys most higher forms of life on the planet but leaves the infrastructure intact for colonization. Available to non-Spiritualist, non-Pacifist empires.
  • God Ray: Converts all organic Pops on the planet to spiritualist and destroys all machine/synthetic pops, as well as massively increasing spiritualist ethics attraction on the planet for a time. Available to Spiritualist empires.
  • Nanobot Dispersal: Assimilates all Pops on the planet, causing it to defect to your empire with its newly cyborgized population. Only available to Driven Assimilators (and thus requires Synthetic Dawn as well).
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(Weapon icons are placeholders)

Additional types of World Devastator weapons that are potentially available to your empire can be researched as rare technologies after finishing the Colossus project. Once the project is complete, you will be able to build a Colossus at any Starbase with a shipyard where you have the Colossus Assembly Yards building built. Once built, the Colossus functions similar to a civilian ship, in that it is own fleet, and cannot be merged with other fleets. Each empire can only have a single Colossus active at the same time, but can build a new one if their active one is destroyed.

Colossi have no conventional armaments (though we are discussing a few medium/PD turrets to them), and their real purpose is to target enemy planets. When a Colossus is ordered to target a planet, it will travel straight towards it, ignoring enemy ships entirely even if they fire on it. The Colossus will travel to the planet, take up position and begin charging its weapon. The weapon takes quite some time to charge, giving enemy fleets a chance to try and destroy the Colossus to stop it from firing (though Colossi naturally can take a great deal of punishment, they are not invincible). Once the weapons is fully charged, it will fire, executing its effects (as described above) on the hapless planet. The Colossus is then free to continue on to the next planet if you so wish. Most Colossi weapons can only target planets owned by empires you are at war with, though some of them can target primitive worlds and the World Cracker can be used on uncolonized rock-type worlds (but will not always generate a mineral deposit in that case).
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(Animations & interface are partly WIP)

The system for creating World Devastator weapons is fully scriptable, and modders will be able to create their own planet-destroying/changing effects.

Titans (Apocalypse Feature)
Titans are another new ship class available in the Apocalypse expansion, but unlike the Colossus they are much more like conventional warships. Titans are researched through a regular tier 5 technology, and can be built in any Starbase with a shipyard and the Titan Assembly Yards building. Titans are massive flagships that come equipped with an array of heavy long-ranged weaponry and layer upon layer of shields and armor. Their front section has a single Titanic-size slot that can fit weapons even stronger than XL weapons, such as the immensely powerful Perdition Beam that can fire across a whole system and potentially destroy a battleship in a single shot. Titans also have an aura slot that can fit a single offensive or defensive aura that can buff friendly ships in the same fleet or debuff nearby enemy ships. Titans are intended to be the flagships of your fleets, and as such are limited in number: You can always field at least one Titan, plus an additional amount dependent on your overall naval capacity.
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Ion Cannons (Apocalypse Feature)
Finally, there is one last Apocalype feature to talk about for today: Ion Cannons. Ion Cannons are stations that can be built as part of the defense platform fleet of a Starbase. Each Ion Cannon is essentially a single massive gun emplacement that mounts a single Titanic weapon, allowing the Starbase to engage enemy fleets at massive ranges and greatly improving the Starbase's ability to deal with enemy Battleships and Titans.
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That's all for today! Next week we'll continue talking about Cherryh and Apocalypse expansion, on the topic of Marauders, Pirates and the Great Khan.
 
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Har har. You realize that when a POP migrates, it doesn't actually move anywhere, right? The game just deletes it and spawns an identical one somewhere else.
That's just teleportation, this "shielding" does no such reintroduction, it just kills them... It is not very pacifist

To avoid the performance hit of simulating the thousands of worlds likely to be shielded, you could just have a "shield-lowered" script that takes their portraits, the size and biome of their planet, and maybe some other relevant details, and generates a new world. Any changes that have occurred could easily be due to the decades under the shield with no contact with the outside empire. They could come back as a one planet highly advanced empire if their society prospered when cut off, as a relatively normal group if they just scraped by until the shield was lowered, or as primitives if their civilisation collapsed. That would be an interesting mechanic that stops all this nasty killing business so I can make war like a proper pacifist.
 
Wouldn't this kind of weapons only be suited for Devouring Swarms, and not for all Hive Minds ?
Not every single one of them want to eat all the biomass of the galaxy, some of them are pretty nice guys ... Or at least they don't want to eat sapient species, cleansing their world in the process.
There's also the same issue that comes up every time people suggest Hiveminds need more weird biotech Zerg/Tyranid/Flood-style stuff- that's already the aesthetic and niche of a Crisis, and the Prethroyn would be devalued as an in-game entity if other empires could ape their style.

That said, I'm all for a biological version of the Nanobot Dispersal superweapon for Hiveminds.
 
That's just teleportation, this "shielding" does no such reintroduction, it just kills them... It is not very pacifist
A pacifist can exterminate an entire species through purging. Killing xenos is not a problem for pacifist, it could be an issue for Xenophile, but that's all.
 
That's just teleportation, this "shielding" does no such reintroduction, it just kills them... It is not very pacifist

To avoid the performance hit of simulating the thousands of worlds likely to be shielded, you could just have a "shield-lowered" script that takes their portraits, the size and biome of their planet, and maybe some other relevant details, and generates a new world. Any changes that have occurred could easily be due to the decades under the shield with no contact with the outside empire. They could come back as a one planet highly advanced empire if their society prospered when cut off, as a relatively normal group if they just scraped by until the shield was lowered, or as primitives if their civilisation collapsed. That would be an interesting mechanic that stops all this nasty killing business so I can make war like a proper pacifist.
You must be being intentionally pedantic, right?

If the Shielded population will have no opportunity to interact with the rest of the game, why continue simulating them to "prove" they're still alive?

If the developers intended to allow Shields to be taken down, you might have a point, but they don't. So the planet can be safely deleted and we can all use our imaginations and reading skills to infer they are still, in fact, alive, just unreachable.
 
Okay, so now I'm ridiculously excited for this expansion and patch. This wait for it is going to be excruciating...
 
The shield thing is relatively simple to fix. You could mod something in that just makes a note of the majority population when the planet gets shielded and make an event that takes it down. The event can rebuild new buildings and create new pops. It won't be the exact same planet but... is that really an issue?
 
There's also the same issue that comes up every time people suggest Hiveminds need more weird biotech Zerg/Tyranid/Flood-style stuff- that's already the aesthetic and niche of a Crisis, and the Prethroyn would be devalued as an in-game entity if other empires could ape their style.
Ascended synthetics and machine empires dont devalue the contingency crisis, so, true biological hive minds dont would devaluate the prethoryns.
 
A pacifist can exterminate an entire species through purging. Killing xenos is not a problem for pacifist, it could be an issue for Xenophile, but that's all.
Ah, good point. The forever shield makes sense for an Inwards Perfection empire. I still think regular pacifists should have the option to take down the shield - you could have interesting dynamics like an aggressor nation that doesn't want to piss off the pacifists because they would like their worlds back.
You must be being intentionally pedantic, right?

If the Shielded population will have no opportunity to interact with the rest of the game, why continue simulating them to "prove" they're still alive?

If the developers intended to allow Shields to be taken down, you might have a point, but they don't. So the planet can be safely deleted and we can all use our imaginations and reading skills to infer they are still, in fact, alive, just unreachable.

Many times in the past the developers have changed their minds about the specific way a feature is implemented to make it better or based on community feedback. I'm just giving community feedback that I don't like unthematic functional permadeath, but I think the possibility of raising and then having the potential to lower a shield has a lot of merit and useful game options to make the game more fun and engaging to roleplay as a pacifist.
 
Planet destroyers are beyond a terrible idea for several reasons:

1: They make doomstacks worse. All incentive will be to protect/destroy the planet destroyer. As is if you lose your doomstack you lose the war, with this and the war changes now once you lose your doom stack the game is completely over since you opponent now gets to destroy all your planets. All ships will be with the planet destroyer because this is literally all war will be about.

2: Mechanically unfun. Sure, you can wag your space reproductive organs about while you wreck havoc, and for some players that will be fun, but as I think even the devs have said in the past, they are completely unfun to have used against you. Now you can not come back from a defeat, because there will be nothing to regain, and no doubt incredibly frustrating to watch you entire game come crashing down because the colossus is online.

3: Impossible to balance. They will ultimately either be one of three things: incredibly overpowered as they turn into an instant win button as soon as they come online, incredibly underpowered because there will have to be enough to them to keep them from steamrolling that they won't be worth it, or a win more button that you already have to have won to even consider making/using on that they are ultimately pointless.

It's a shame, I have loved Stellaris, but these are such a terrible idea at minimum I won't buy the expansion they are in, which seems to be adding a lot more in than just these things. Will there be an option to turn them off while still using other new content like titans and ion cannons?
 
:eek:

Can I use my planet cracker to blow up your planet cracker?! Please say I can!

:D
 
You must be being intentionally pedantic, right?

If the Shielded population will have no opportunity to interact with the rest of the game, why continue simulating them to "prove" they're still alive?

If the developers intended to allow Shields to be taken down, you might have a point, but they don't. So the planet can be safely deleted and we can all use our imaginations and reading skills to infer they are still, in fact, alive, just unreachable.

I agree it's not necessary to simulate them and them still being alive is how I originally interpreted the diary but to be fair it is possible that the other person is interpreting "shield" as including "from the system's stellar rays". As in, blot out the sun and let all solar based life die.
 
:eek:

Can I use my planet cracker to blow up your planet cracker?! Please say I can!

:D
"MY planet cracker is bigger than YOURS !"
 
Ascended synthetics and machine empires dont devalue the contingency crisis, so, true biological hive minds dont would devaluate the prethoryns.
The Contingency doesn't behave like a normal Machine Empire, though. Very pointedly. They produce Droids, sure, but those are almost meaningless mechanically and are more of a flavour thing.

For the record, I oppose vanilla access to the Contingency shipset for Machine Empires, too.
 
I don't like unthematic functional permadeath
I don't understand how you consider it "unthematic" for a Pacifist-accessible (not "pacifist-exclusive", the weapon is simply available to everyone and thus easily attained by Pacifists who don't qualify for the other restricted ones) to lock away a population forever.

It doesn't kill the people on the planet- they're still there, as far as the game's canon and "thematics" are concerned, they just can no longer interfere with galactic affairs on any level. That's pretty "pacifist", if you ask me, or at the very least it fits the "Technical Pacifist" trope to a "T" (and really, true Pacifists probably wouldn't create superweapons...). "We won't kill you, that would be cruel- we're just going to lock you in a cage where you can't cause any problems, ever again. Do whatever you want in there."
 
With regards to uncovering shielded worlds, mypreference would be to allow it but A. It should take a major investment of resources (perhaps it could function similarly to building a megastructure) and B. The condition of the planet should be randomly determined upon uncovering. Perhaps you uncover it and find that little has changed, just some buildings were replaced with farms, enough to keep the planet food self-sufficient. Or maybe you uncover it and find that a number of pops have died and the tiles that contain the rest have reverted to primitive buildings. Or maybe you uncover it and find an irradiated tomb world. Maybe different outcomes could be weighted based on how long it has been under shield, and completion could come with event text for flavour.

This is more of a suggestion for down the road, but I think it could be interesting.
 
I would not be a very happy girl if I'd mechanically ceased to exist but lorewise I'm still alive somewhere...

I would not be a very happy girl if I was only being technically not killed.

Yes but you'd still be "technically" alive somewhere in which to -not- be a happy girl. Otherwise you're just a dead girl.

;););)

I don't care for the shield not being able to be taken down myself. But if I find it annoying enough I'll mod in an event. It could be fun to take down shielded planets. See how they're different, etc. Maybe everyone has turned into zombies or something since the shield went up? Fun possibilities. Though I really don't think there will be a ton of them anyway.
 
Im am very happy with the 2.0 changes, very curious about the marauders, pirates and khans and very happy with the new techs and new civics teased in the dev stream.
But I am a bit sceptical about the balance planet destroyers, they have a high probability of:

1- Being a vanity project worst than ringworlds, a thing that you make late game just for fun when the game is already won. Is very inneficient, late game, trade a entire planet for one 10 society deposit or one 16 mineral deposit. The most useful planet destroyer will be the machine assimilator, rush one can be a valid stategy. The others will be just a vanity project. Maybe use "crack planet" in barren worlds with 0 resources, inside of your borders will be a valid strategy too, but would be ironical if the most cost efficient use of a planet destroyer end being in peace times.

2- Overpowers, making late game wars dont having strategy, with ground combat completly irrelevant and the unique competitive choice being have a unique doomstack with a colossus destroying enemy planets one by one or having a unique doomstack trying stop the enemy doomstack+colossus.

The Contingency doesn't behave like a normal Machine Empire, though. Very pointedly. They produce Droids, sure, but those are almost meaningless mechanically and are more of a flavour thing.

For the record, I oppose vanilla access to the Contingency shipset for Machine Empires, too.
A biological hive mind dont need behave like the prethoryns and can use other biological shipset.
 
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@LeSingeAffame
I counter, the devouring swarm is not the only one that wants to eat everyone. Anyone that can use the xenophagia purge option can (and possibly wants to) eat everyone.
This weapon is more in line with xenophagia, but the vehicle (dumping biomass monstrosities (genetic swarms) and/or viral agents into a planet and leaving it a barren mess) is much more in line with either genetic ascension empires or any of the hive minds.

If the weapon effect removed the bonus, and stuck with the output method (all pop destroyed, planet turned into barren, terraformable planet), it'd be more in line with the neutron sweep, but has the added issue (potentially beneficial issue, depending on circumstances) of needing the planet be re-formed back into a habitable planet, whereas the neutron sweep is meant to allow a planet be populated by synthetics almost immediately. So, then it's just a flavor weapon, but it would need to have added bonuses or effects to differentiate it from the neutron sweep, which I think is where @Hironymus 's bonuses idea came from.
What if the hivemind/bioascension weapon dumped biomass monstrosities (genetic swarms) on the planet that (a) killed all the pops, (b) destroyed most (or all) of the buildings, and left it terraformed to the planet type decided at the beginning? That's a different boost than giving a xenophagic like boost to population growth. The explanation is the hivemind/bioascension colossus dumped biomass monstrosities that terraformed the planet to something more amicable to the empire of the colossus? Kind of fun, and sort of in line with what the monsters in the Frontline Series of Marko Kloos (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marko_Kloos) do to humanity. Biologically engineered terraforming monsters would work even on a machine world, and they could work on any planet with a habitable flag (even the barren ones), since it's terraforming AND killing everything.

Iono, this isn't a very fleshed out idea on my part.
 
"We won't kill you, that would be cruel- we're just going to lock you in a cage where you can't cause any problems, ever again. Do whatever you want in there."

Thank you for providing me with a new reason to purge all pacifists. They are a scourge on the galaxy and must be stopped before all free species are locked in cages!!

:D:D:D
 
Har har. You realize that when a POP migrates, it doesn't actually move anywhere, right? The game just deletes it and spawns an identical one somewhere else.
That's just teleportation
Slightly offtopic:

Could someone please remind the name of the classic Sci-Fi short novel with this exact plot (guy invents "teleportation" but later people discover it's actually "deletes it and spawns an identical one somewhere else"). I remember reading it years back, and can't seem to find it.