• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

Stellaris Dev Diary #100 - Titans and Planet Destroyers

Hello everyone and welcome to this very special triple digit Stellaris development diary! Today's dev diary marks the start of talking about the Apocalypse Expansion that will be accompanying the 2.0 'Cherryh' update. We still can't give you an ETA on the release of either, and there's a fair bit to cover in the expansion before then, but we're getting closer. As this is the start of talking about paid features, I just want to take a moment to reiterate that everything talked about in dev diaries 91-99 (with the exception of Dev Diary #95 which was about Humanoids) were about the Cherryh update and all features and changes mentioned in these previous dev diaries are part of the free update, NOT the expansion. Everything mentioned in this dev diary will be part of the paid Apocalypse expansion, however. Please note that some of the screenshots in this dev diary feature placeholder art and icons.


Planet Destroyers (Apocalypse Feature)
As mentioned all the way back in Dev Diary #50 and again in Dev Diary #69, Planet Destroyers have been on our wish list for quite some time, but wasn't something we could make work with restrictive nature of the old warscore system. Now that this is no longer a concern thanks to the new war system we talked about in Dev Diary #93, we finally have our chance to implement this beloved sci-fi staple.

Planet Destroyers come in the form of a new ship class called a Colossus. Though nominally a military ship, the Colossus has no actual fleet combat capability, but is instead a single massive weapon solely dedicated to the purpose of laying waste to enemy planets. To build a Colossus, you must first already know how to build Titans (more on those below) and then take the Colossus Project Ascension Perk, which unlocks a special project to research and design your first Colossus. Each Colossus mounts a single World Devastator-class weapon, and during the course of the project you will be given the option to choose which such weapon you want to focus on, with five potential options to choose from:
  • World Cracker: Shatters a planet, leaving behind a broken debris field that can be mined for resources. Available to non-Pacifists.
  • Global Pacifier: Encases the planet in an impenetrable shield, permanently cutting it off from the rest of the galaxy. A research station can be built to study the planet afterwards.
  • Neutron Sweep: Destroys most higher forms of life on the planet but leaves the infrastructure intact for colonization. Available to non-Spiritualist, non-Pacifist empires.
  • God Ray: Converts all organic Pops on the planet to spiritualist and destroys all machine/synthetic pops, as well as massively increasing spiritualist ethics attraction on the planet for a time. Available to Spiritualist empires.
  • Nanobot Dispersal: Assimilates all Pops on the planet, causing it to defect to your empire with its newly cyborgized population. Only available to Driven Assimilators (and thus requires Synthetic Dawn as well).
2018_01_11_1.png

(Weapon icons are placeholders)

Additional types of World Devastator weapons that are potentially available to your empire can be researched as rare technologies after finishing the Colossus project. Once the project is complete, you will be able to build a Colossus at any Starbase with a shipyard where you have the Colossus Assembly Yards building built. Once built, the Colossus functions similar to a civilian ship, in that it is own fleet, and cannot be merged with other fleets. Each empire can only have a single Colossus active at the same time, but can build a new one if their active one is destroyed.

Colossi have no conventional armaments (though we are discussing a few medium/PD turrets to them), and their real purpose is to target enemy planets. When a Colossus is ordered to target a planet, it will travel straight towards it, ignoring enemy ships entirely even if they fire on it. The Colossus will travel to the planet, take up position and begin charging its weapon. The weapon takes quite some time to charge, giving enemy fleets a chance to try and destroy the Colossus to stop it from firing (though Colossi naturally can take a great deal of punishment, they are not invincible). Once the weapons is fully charged, it will fire, executing its effects (as described above) on the hapless planet. The Colossus is then free to continue on to the next planet if you so wish. Most Colossi weapons can only target planets owned by empires you are at war with, though some of them can target primitive worlds and the World Cracker can be used on uncolonized rock-type worlds (but will not always generate a mineral deposit in that case).
2018_01_11_2.png

2018_01_11_3.png

2018_01_11_4.png

(Animations & interface are partly WIP)

The system for creating World Devastator weapons is fully scriptable, and modders will be able to create their own planet-destroying/changing effects.

Titans (Apocalypse Feature)
Titans are another new ship class available in the Apocalypse expansion, but unlike the Colossus they are much more like conventional warships. Titans are researched through a regular tier 5 technology, and can be built in any Starbase with a shipyard and the Titan Assembly Yards building. Titans are massive flagships that come equipped with an array of heavy long-ranged weaponry and layer upon layer of shields and armor. Their front section has a single Titanic-size slot that can fit weapons even stronger than XL weapons, such as the immensely powerful Perdition Beam that can fire across a whole system and potentially destroy a battleship in a single shot. Titans also have an aura slot that can fit a single offensive or defensive aura that can buff friendly ships in the same fleet or debuff nearby enemy ships. Titans are intended to be the flagships of your fleets, and as such are limited in number: You can always field at least one Titan, plus an additional amount dependent on your overall naval capacity.
2018_01_11_5.png


Ion Cannons (Apocalypse Feature)
Finally, there is one last Apocalype feature to talk about for today: Ion Cannons. Ion Cannons are stations that can be built as part of the defense platform fleet of a Starbase. Each Ion Cannon is essentially a single massive gun emplacement that mounts a single Titanic weapon, allowing the Starbase to engage enemy fleets at massive ranges and greatly improving the Starbase's ability to deal with enemy Battleships and Titans.
2018_01_11_6.png


That's all for today! Next week we'll continue talking about Cherryh and Apocalypse expansion, on the topic of Marauders, Pirates and the Great Khan.
 
Last edited:
To be honest, I'm not a big fan of planet destroyers as an idea. They just seem like an either completely overpowered feature that every lategame war will be centered around (I can already see players moving in a single full doomstack along with a colossus and destroying planets one by one), or a trivial endgame gimmick that comes too late and costs too much to be effective and is pointless to have other than for RP purposes.

But there is an even more important problem with planet destroyers, or at least I think there is.

They completely kill the idea of defense buildings on planets. Why build Fortresses if an enemy can just fly a ship to your planet and destroy it in one go, at a cost that is most certainly cheaper than building up a fortress border world was. Like, they only have to pay to build the colossus and its maintenance is probably not too costly. And they can do it numerous times. There is really no reason to invest in stationary fortifications.

It just feels like...I dont know, you wanted to make armies relevant? You made many changes, redesigned a whole system. And then you introduce a weapon that just makes them completely and utterly pointless in the lategame. They can't even stall for time or cost the opponent war exhaustion. This is made even worse if planet destroyers can just skip past the starbase and dive directly into a planet.

I get that the superweapon has a long charge time and all and is (or will be with patches) balanced. I can see the appeal of having them in the game.

But, really, they're just far too rule-breaking for my taste. I, for one, don't care if they come late in the game, I don't want to see even one of them in my games, except maybe as a ship used exclusively by crises which would make them more interesting. But as for normal or fallen empires? No.

Would it be possible to have an option at the gamestart to disable Colossuses entirely?
the current numbers had the planet destroyer costing 27000ish minerals and hacing aprox 100 energy and mineral upkeep. But yeah fortress worlds sheilds should probably be able to extend the time it takes to destroy the planet.
 
If I heard correctly, there are also new music, so I'll buy also this expansion.
 
I would suggest that being able to unshield the planet by a lengthy expensive process that can be disrupted if the research station is destroyed, might be a better solution.

Destroy and research the original planet destroyer to reverse engineer the specific technique used to create the shield. After that, it's a lengthy project consuming a good deal of energy and that takes ~10 years.
The one who generated the shield can deactivate it directly, but it will require using the same project.

The big question would be how to handle the planet development while in the shield. Will it rise as an independent government once freed? will it rejoin the original faction, regardless of the current owner of the system?
 
Kind of curious to know what else will be included in the DLC. I was expecting this, but if there are more announcements I'm holding out for those before I start trying to insert my credit card into my disk drive.
 
Yeah, they definitely won't but its a different problem. Say you have a war you're winning, although you're taking losses and its not a trivial one. Normally, you'd accumulate war exhaustion which would eventually force you to peace out. But with those things, as long as you can obliterate the enemy fleets/starbases, there's nothing stopping you from just wiping their worlds out of existance one by one until there's nothing but rubble.

In the old warscore system you'd take one, two, maybe three planets. But with this, you can potentially completely kill an empire with 30 systems in one war. And make the space they occupied uninhabitable. Essentially making snowballing even easier than now. As long as you win slightly, the opponent has no chances of ever coming back, and even if by some miraculous chance they do manage to force a peace, they are left without many planets, starbases and infrastructure while you lost nothing but energy and minerals.

Planet destroyers can be nice to have as a one-per game event, but not something that can be repeated infinitely. Also, an option to disable them would just be an option, not something that is enabled by default.
You would be unlikely able to kill 30 systems, you would hit max war exhustion before that and be forced to take the middle peace out option. Or your opponent just unconditional surrenders and give you, your non 30 planet destroying war goal ending the war.
 
No, let it be as quick as possible. That will force empires to disperse their fleets and cover their systems for fear of losing planets. It will be an excellent way of reducing doomstacks.

Or not really, because then the side with the Colossus will bring it in with their doomstack, meanwhile your defending forces will get ripped to shreds and you have to reassemble them before you can stop it, which you can't because it's "as quick as possible"
 
Preordered!

In general the features outlined here sound pretty awesome (in both the original and the modern sense of the world), and I can't wait to read more about what's being hinted at on the Paradox store page.

Just two main points of criticism:

There is currently no way to unshield them (as that would make it a fairly useless variant).
Aside from consistency (we can open up pre-seeded shielded worlds as part of an event/science project, though in theory we could say this shield was weakened over time), couldn't this option be "balanced" by a high cost in resources and/or Research Points, plus a tech requirement?

It might just take 10-20 years to open up a shielded world again, maybe involve constructing a specialized Science Station that actually reduces/drains Physics Science instead of adding to it, and/or having a high Energy Cost per month. This way, the Pacifist approach to planetary devastation would take more of an economic path in that aside from taking an entire hostile world out of the equation for several decades, they also tempt their enemies into investing a large sum of resources into unlocking it again.

There could even be a "subsidized" political consequence when the targeted empire has its Authoritarian or Spiritualist Faction adopt the Issue to re-open this world as a point of national pride, so that it involves a Happiness/Influence cost on top of the resource cost (if the empire can even spare them to start opening the shield) until the problem is resolved.

I think there's a lot of potential in terms of indirect consequences if we move away from a simple 0/1 "Neutralize Planet" approach to Colossi interaction. Other examples could involve the application of various Planetary Modifiers to enemy worlds without affecting them otherwise, such as distributing psychotropic chemicals in the atmosphere. An offensive "Anti-Satramene" (Aparamene? Kalimene?), for example, that decreases Government Ethos Attraction and adds a permanent +10 Unrest? Artificial application of Bleak, Weak Magnetic Field or Hazardous Weather?

Titans do not have section variants. They're meant to be highly specialized ships.
What if players just want to specialize them in different ways? See Fallen Empire Titans and their hangars.

I assume this will easily be moddable, but it's a bit difficult to understand the reasons behind this kind of limitation in the vanilla game. Ship design is one of the ways to diversify and differentiate empires based on their cultural values. Forcing everyone into the same box with this seems to run counter to your earlier-stated intention of providing a different gameplay experience to the various Ethoses, especially when you've used that argument to again limit player choice when it comes to the different Ascension types.

In short: can't the game be more ... open? Customizatibility, even outside of mods, seems to be one of Stellaris' premier points of attraction.

But that's just my personal opinion, of course. Regardless of the above, I still can't wait to see the release version, and more of your teases.


Oh, nice naming choice. Kinda puzzled as to why you would name the starbase titan-size weapon 'Ion Cannon' instead of something more generic
Yeah, that stood out to me as well. It sounds like a bit of an awkward reference that is there just for the sake of referencing something (Episode V). Unless "ion beams" are the only Titan weapon able to be installed there, wouldn't something generic like "Mega-Pylon" (off the top of my head; I'm sure there are better terms) make a little more sense?

Can we get an additional malus to stacking multiple Titans in a single fleet, just to encourage Multi-fleet over doomstack? Or does your current indev playtesting indicate that won't even be necessary?
That wouldn't solve anything; you could just bring two fleets with a Titan each to circumvent such a penalty. I believe that issues like these can only ever be avoided by something like Local Naval Capacity / Logistics a la HoI4, not what we're going to get with 2.0.

Its a pitty, that the only colossus with peace time application (planet cracker for uncolonized worlds) is not available to pacifists.
True. It's a little like as if a Pacifist nation were not allowed to build nuclear power plants just because the material they handle *could* be used to build nukes.

Then again, I've always been in favor of realistic consequences over hard limits in general. It would be much cooler if you could not only build but even use a weapon like this for military means, but doing so would have an impact on Faction influence and Ethos Attraction.

Example for Pacifists: an increase to Pacifist Ethos Attraction as people are horrified as to what the government is doing, and the Pacifist Faction instantly adopting a -20 Happiness Issue that persists as long as the Colossus is not dismantled, plus a stacking -10 Happiness Issue lasting 10 years for every one time you use that thing to destroy an inhabited world). Perhaps even demonstrations/riots on your worlds, with forced re-elections etc? Stellaris Zero springs to mind when it comes to political effects like these.

We should have the ability to send a world back to primitive age, a weapon that ruins the planet and turn it into a wasteland so we could study worlds like the Fallout's world.
Aye, it would be nice to have a "happy middle ground" between targeted strategic bombardment and total eradication of the populace. Could have a lot of story potential, too!

While I salute your decision to finally introduce titans into the game, there is one more thing to be done. There must be a ship that would fit "between" battleships and titans, - dreadnought (or a mothership, as a fighter/bomber alternative). The reason why the game needs it is because late in the game there are too many battleships (~ 100-150) and it feels like quantity does not transform into quality at this stage. If we had a ship that could replace 5-6 battleships alone, it would be good for the late game in particular because it would lessen the lag and make late game battles look great, since watching massive dreadnoughts/motherships tearing each other apart is somewhat more satisfying than observing # 42 bs dying and being instantly replaced.
I would think issues like these are better solved by lowering Naval Capacity in general. You wouln't need ships worth 5-6 BBs if you're unable to have 42 battleships in the first place. Even battles with 42 cruisers are already cluttered and bland. And this way, even individual destroyers and cruisers become more memorable!

Recommended mod: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=790986484
 
Global Pacifier: Encases the planet in an impenetrable shield, permanently cutting it off from the rest of the galaxy. A research station can be built to study the planet afterwards.
Oh, nice, finally some proper zoos. Two questions though. Is it (judging by the name) Pacifist exclusive? Does it have same observation event/new ones/none at all?
 
In short: can't the game be more ... open? Customizatibility, even outside of mods, seems to be one of Stellaris' premier points of attraction.

Don't quote me on this, but I feel Titans don't have sections because doing so would require building 3-4 models per section instead of 1, and making sure they fit coherently with each other. The first one is probably not a huge deal (although it does require more resources), but the later severely restricts how they can design the ship - and they can't afford to end with something lame-looking for what essentially is flagships.

I wouldn't find it weird if some time down the line we get a second or third titan model per race for other weapon loadouts (like a supercarrier)
 
I feel a bit underwhelmed by the Titan load out. 1 massive gun is a good thing but then to only have 6 large slots and 6 support slots plus 3 odd thing slots..... just seems a bit weak to me.

Its hardly what i would call "layer upon layer of shields" or bristling with guns.

Wiz, please can you confirm what fleet cap numbers a titan has. is it 16? if so i think we might finally have found an update i wont need to buy.
 
The initial sequence reminds me of the demo coronoid of 2015 from the group "still". Curious if there was some inspiration? :)

Stellaris Apocalypse Reveal trailer (jump video to ~ 0:15):


Still - Coronoid Demo (jump video to ~ 3:29):

Stellaris Apocalypse Trailer (Screenshot):

stellaris_2018.png


Coronoid - Still (Screenshot from final videocapture of the demo):

coronoid2015_still.png
 
Last edited:
Titans do not have section variants. They're meant to be highly specialized ships.

Sorry, but that just feels lazy. Why can't I decide how to specialize my Titans? I absolutely want to build Titan-Supercarriers, would I be able to? Also If I am limited to only a handful I would like to design each of them individual.