Stellaris Dev Diary #108 - 2.0 Post-Release Support (part 1)

[Lordban]

I hope there's just one exception made - War in Heaven.

 

[Princess Stabbity]

Thank you! I think this will strike the perfect balance. A sudden death mechanic sounds like a flexible but effective solution, I can't wait to try it out!

I also like the idea of partial subjugation and liberation, I think that's excellent. However, please also fix the issue of AI empires never picking the Domination tradition (and thus unable to get subjugation CBs) so subjugation wars could actually ever happen n_n

 

[arc2611]

- There will be no penalties for war exhaustion.
The most disappointing sentence in this dev diary for me.
Just because forced peace 2 years after high exhaustion would be a thing doesn't mean there shouldn't be ANY penalties. I really fail to see the logic here.

The problem with penalties is that empires could exploit the 100% war exhaustion penalties to cripple their opponent by refusing to peace out.

 

[Stormcow]

What annoys me is that i have to compete with my allies to see who can occupy enemy systems first or risk losing out at at the end of the war. We should be working together strategically not racing to make sure we get their first.

we need a HOI4 style end of war divide the spoils screen please.

 

[the_almighty_tom]

I couldn't see anyone else mention this but...

Could you maybe do a really Paradox/Stellaris thing and implement WAR EXHAUSTION SLIDERS!

Wouldn't that be the ultimate compromise and allow people to customise how War Exhaustion works?

A slider for War Exhaustion Penalties with the first setting being off and the rest being negative modifiers

And maybe one for Forced Peace with the first setting being off and the next few being months in multiples of 6 months

Would that please everybody?

 

[Stahl-Opa]

hey, @Wiz I wasn't very lucky with many decisions you made in the past time.

But I have to admit this time you've made a great Job. I think that's exactly the way it have to work. Thanks.

 

[Caligula Caesar]

@Wiz could you also look at opinion and their_opinion triggers too? Apologies for the somewhat hasty bug report, but they appear not to work at all (at least in the format "opinion = { target = prev value < -50 }". Quite an issue if it all isn't working, and not just for my mod - those triggers are used about 45 times in Vanilla!

 

[Elfwind]

Speaking of war free fleet admirals added during the event for excellent captains still don't have psionic if you are ascended.

 

[Draguss]

This is very saddening, but war exhaustion is thankfully also different than it was before. It accumulates much more slowly for Empires with the appropriate ethics and civic chosen (which I have chosen!) than it did before, so I will have to try to keep an open mind when I play again.

 

[Cat_Fuzz]

Is it possible to increase the threat modifier of an empire that wars during the grace period? That way there is a penalty to refusing status quo peace as other nations see you as being blood thirsty.

 

[Guthuk Gaming]

What annoys me is that i have to compete with my allies to see who can occupy enemy systems first or risk losing out at at the end of the war. We should be working together strategically not racing to make sure we get their first.

we need a HOI4 style end of war divide the spoils screen please.

Highest claim strength always takes the territory.

 

[Beagá]

Nice.

 

[Zly_Boby]

Cmon now...I can't care less about any changes to balance as long as the game is unplayable. Fixes -> then features.

 

[Drachenfels]

Any hope to change the bloody travel time? My biggest issue is that your fleet cannot reach anything in time period that would not induce suicidal thoughts. Back in a day you would play eve online while playing another game, now I am playing eve online while playing Stellaris. It's deal HORRIBLE design choice that achieves nothing.

 

[Razzlie]

Indeed otherwise people will just try to keep the war going for 2 years if there is no penalty in not accepting it earlier. This will just make it so every war ends 2 years later than meant to.

No penalty will change that, and if it would, it's effectively just a forced peace anyways at that point.

So you might as well skip the unnecessary middle-man and just adjust the war timer directly.

 

[Shiolle]

There is little practical difference between this grace period (if there are no penalties) and simply slowing the rate at which war exhaustion increases.

I also find it extremely strange that there are no ill effects of exhaustion on your population and armed forces. Without some penalties it doesn't look like actual exhaustion but an abstract number that just happens to be named that way. I agree that actual winning or loosing should slow down or speed up exhaustion. To me, war weariness is when even operations that were trivial at the start of the war become downright impossible because everyone is too apathetic, tired or are looking after themselves.

Regarding the stated goals of the system, you are just fulfilling one (allowing enough time for conquest) at the expense of the other (giving a reason for the outmatched side to give a fight). There is nothing more to it.

 

[dtroiani]

They are heading in the right direction. I know I am happy.

 

[Ainell]

Any chance we could be allowed to do Force Ideology war when we've got our war policy set to Unrestricted Warfare? I mean, 'Unrestricted' doesn't seem like it should have restrictions, and it's a real pain for Democratic Crusaders in particular.

 

[QuantumPion]

I think subjugation/tribute/ideaology wars should work like Rise of Nations. If you capture the capital planet, a timer starts for the defenders to retake, after which they are forced to surrender. Attackers would also have a timer so it’s a rush both ways.

This would have several positive gameplay effects such as making wars have a clear and defined goal for both the attackers and defenders. It makes creating layers of defensive systems to protect the capital strategic. It makes ground combat and planet defenses very meaningful. It gives defenders’ allies a way to meaningfully help with troops or ships because they only have to defend one target instead of an entire empire.

The attackers don’t have to tediously conquer every single system to accumulate war score. An empire that is very large but completely defenseless would still be vulnerable instead of relying on the relative size to simply make their Warscore too high to even attempt. If you have a colossus, firing it would have the same effect which makes end game wars more dangerous as they would make ground war unneeded at that point in the game, but you wouldn’t need to use colossus on every single planet. It’s just the perfect solution IMO.

 

[Heretic Saint]

Have to agree with many of the other posters here; (actually meaningful!) War Exhaustion penalties would be a much better option compared to a magically Forced Peace that "just kinda happens".

This game already offers so many mechanics that could be tapped to achieve the desired result without making the player feel like it's the game rather than circumstances dictating the end of a conflict. Examples:

• At 60% War Exhaustion, Pacifist Faction attraction begins to grow, indirectly affecting population Happiness and thus production. Attraction will rise in steps for every further 30% WE. Countered by propaganda efforts such as Information Quarantine or Hearts and Minds.

• At 80% War Exhaustion, Traits, Civics and Buildings/Modules that provide XP to new armies and ships are rendered inactive as training is rushed in order to churn out casualty replacements. An empire-wide penalty to Pop Growth comes into effect. Consumer Goods Cost increased by 5%.

• At 100% War Exhaustion, starships begin to accumulate minor stacking penalties to various stats as supply lines and maintenance cycles become unreliable. The penalties are randomized, but each ship is assigned one for every 10% WE above 90 (e.g. a cruiser might receive a -5% Fire Rate debuff at WE 100, and -5% Tracking at WE 110). If a ship is docked at an allied starbase at the start of the month, the newest penalty will be wiped. Consumer Goods Cost increased by 10%.

• At 120% War Exhaustion, Unrest begins to spread, increasing the risk of rebellion. Countered by garrisons and the Martial Law Edict. Armies receive a penalty to Damage and Health as the empire is "scraping the barrel" (to borrow a term from HoI4). Consumer Goods Cost increased by 15%. Leaders run an increased risk of receiving negative Traits such as Lethargic or Substance Abuser.

... and so on. At some point, continuing the war will become unbearable, but it'd be to the player to decide when this point comes, and it will be forced by tangible economic devastation rather than a timed pop-up in the game. Hell, if a player feels like sticking with a war indefinitely, have them run a risk of the empire splintering in a civil war.

Furthermore, I believe War Exhaustion should not just completely reset after a war, but instead recover slowly, making empires coming out of a devastating conflict vulnerable for a time. Aside from added realism, this would give even large empires a reason not to go overboard with their wars, lest they risk becoming easier targets for the enemies they made. As an added bonus, it would allow the addition of economic or even diplomatic measures for post-war "reconstruction" efforts, such as Edicts, Policies or Trade deals.