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Hello everyone and welcome to another Stellaris development diary. Today, we're going to start talking about the Planetary Rework coming in the 2.2 'Le Guin' update - the complete redesign of the planetary management system and replacement of planetary tiles. This is going to be a really big topic, so we're spreading it out across four dev diaries, with today's dev diary being about Deposits, Buildings and Districts. Please bear in mind that everything shown is in an early stage of development, and there will be rough-looking interfaces, placeholder art, non final numbers and all those things that people assume are final and complain about anyway no matter how many of these disclaimers I write. :p

Planetary Rework
Before I start going into details on the actual rework, I just wanted to briefly talk about the reasons and goals that are behind this massive rework, and why we're removing tiles and building a new system instead of iterating on the existing systems. For me, getting away from the constraints of tiles has been my single most desired long-term goal for the game. It's not that I think the tile system is inherently a bad system - it works well to visualize your pops and buildings and for the early game it works well enough in giving the player some interesting economic management decisions. However, the tile system is also very constrictive, in a way I feel is detrimental to the very core concepts of Stellaris. The hard limitation of one pop and one building per tile, as well as the hard limitation of 25 tiles/pops/buildings to a planet, it severely limits the kind of societies and planets that we can present in the game.

Do we want to make city-planets, with enormous numbers of pops concentrated onto a single world? Not possible. Do we want to have a fully automated post-scarcity empire where robots do all the actual work? Can't be done without losing out on valuable building space. Sure, we could fundamentally alter the tile system in a such a way to allow these, by for example making it so each tile could support several sub-tiles with additional pops and buildings, but by doing this we will inevitably lose the easy visual presentation that makes the system attractive to begin with, and even then we would continue to be held back by the limit of one pop per building. In other words, we'd end up with something that superficially might resemble the old tile system but offers none of its main advantages and continues to be held back by most of its drawbacks.

When designing the new planetary management system we set out a number of design goals:
- The new system should be able to simulate a wide variety of different societies, to build on the roleplaying and diversity in play-throughs that is such a fundamental part of the Stellaris experience
- The new system needed to offer more interesting choices about how to develop your planets, while simultaneously reducing the amount of uninteresting micromanagement such as mass-upgrading buildings
- The new system should make your planets feel like places where Pops actually live their lives, as opposed to just being resource gathering hubs
- The new system had to be extremely moddable, to make it easier both for us and modders to create new types of empires and playstyles

We believe that this new system that we have created will not only vastly improve many of the features in the game that we couldn't get working properly with the tile system, but together with the resource rework discussed in the last dev diary will also make it possible for us to create truly weird and alien societies that play entirely differently from anything the game currently has to offer, or would ever have to offer if we had remained constrained by the tile system.

Deposits
Under the old tile system, deposits were simply clumps of resources placed on a tile, which would be gathered by a pop and determined what kind of buildings were most efficient to place there. Under the new system, deposits are more akin to planetary terrain and features. Every habitable planet will have a (semi-randomized) number of deposits, with larger planets usually having more deposits. Deposits represent areas on the planet that can be economically exploited, and most commonly increase the number of a particular District (more on this below) that can be build on the planet. For example, a Fertile Lands deposit represents various regions of fertile farmland, and increases the number of Agriculture Districts that can be built on the planet, and thus its potential Food output.
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(Note: All deposit pictures shown here are placeholders, there will be new art for them that isn't done yet)

Not all Deposits affect Districts however - some (such as Crystalline Caverns or Betharian Fields) are rare deposits that allow for the construction of special Buildings (more on this below) on the planet, while others yet may simply provide a passive benefit to the planet, such as a spectacularly beautiful wilderness area that increases happiness for Pops living on the planet. Deposits can have Deposit Blockers that work in a similar way to the Tile Blockers of old, cancelling out the benefits of the Deposit until the Blocker is removed through the expenditure of time and resources. A planet can have multiples of the same Deposit, and there is no hard limit to the number of Deposits that a planet can hold (though there is a cap to how many will be generated under normal circumstances). The types of Deposits that can show up on a planet is affected by the planet class, so where an Ocean World might get its Agriculture from Kelp Forests, an Arctic World would have Fungal Caverns instead.
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(Note: All deposit pictures shown here are placeholders, there will be new art for them that isn't done yet)

Districts
Districts are at at the core of how planets are developed in the Le Guin update. Districts represent large areas of development on the planet dedicated towards housing or resource gathering. For most empires, there are four basic types of Districts: City Districts, Mining Districts, Generator Districts and Agriculture Districts. There are exceptions to this (such as Hive Minds having Hive Districts) but more on this in a later DD. The total number of districts you can build on a planet is equal to its size, so a size 16 planet can support 16 districts in any combination of the types available to you. Additionally, the resource-producing districts (Mining, Generator and Agriculture) are further constrained by the Deposits on the planet, so a planet might only be able to support a maximum of 8 Mining Districts due to there simply not being any further opportunities for mining on the planet. City Districts are never limited by the deposits on the planet, so you can choose to forego a planet's natural resources and blanket it entirely in urban development if you so choose.

The effects of each District is as follows:
  • City District: Provides a large amount of Housing for Pops, Infrastructure for Buildings and Clerk Jobs that produce Trade Value and Luxury Goods
  • Mining District: Provides a small amount of Housing/Infrastructure and Mining Jobs that produce Minerals
  • Agriculture District: Provides a small amount of Housing/Infrastructure and Farming Jobs that produce Food
  • Generator District: Provides a small amount of Housing/Infrastructure and Technician Jobs that produce Energy Credits
There will be more details on most of the concepts mentioned above coming in the other dev diaries. For now, suffice to say that the way you develop your planets with Districts will shape that planet's role in your empire - a heavily urbanized planet will be densely populated, supporting numerous Buildings and specialist Pop Jobs such as Researchers and providing Trade Value for your empire's trade routes (more on this in a future DD), but at the expense of not being able to produce much of the raw resources that are needed to fuel your empire's growth and manufacturing capacity.

A planet's Deposits and Planetary Modifiers may influence this decision - a large planet with High Quality Minerals and numerous Mining Deposits will certainly make for a lucrative mining world, but what if it also sits in a perfect spot to make a heavily urbanized trade hub? No longer are choices regarding planets simply limited to 'Where do I place the capital for the best adjacency bonuses?' and 'Should I follow the tile resource or not?' but will be fundamental choices that create diverse and distinct planets that each have their own role to fill in your empire.
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Buildings
In the Le Guin update, Buildings are specialized Facilities that provide a variety of Jobs and Resources that are not suitable to large-scale resource gathering. For example, instead of having your scientists working in a Physics Lab on a Physics Deposit (whatever that is supposed to be...) you now instead construct a Research Labs building (representing not a single laboratory but rather an allocation of resources towards the sciences across the planet) which provides a number of Pop Researcher Jobs that conduct research for your empire. Buildings are limited by the planet's Infrastructure, with one building 'slot' being unlocked for each 10 Infrastructure on the planet. Some Buildings are also limited in the number you can build on a planet, while others can be built in multiples (for example, a planet can only support a single Autotchton Monument, while you can have as many Alloy Foundries as the slots allow). Buildings can still be upgraded to more advanced versions, but generally there will be far fewer upgrades to do and those upgrades will often require an investment of rare and expensive resources, so it's more of an active choice than something you simply have to click your way through after unlocking a tech.
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Infrastructure comes primarily from constructing Districts, with City Districts giving much more Infrastructure than resource gathering districts do (6 as opposed to 2 in the current internal build, though non final numbers and all that). In addition to unlocking additional Building slots, a higher Infrastructure level also makes some Buildings more efficient, as the number of jobs they provide is fully or partially determined by the planet's Infrastructure level. For example, in the current internal build, Research Labs and Alloy Foundries both have the number of jobs they provide determined by the infrastructure level, meaning that concentrating your research and manufacturing to your heavily urbanized planets is generally more efficient than trying to turn your agri-worlds into science hubs. In addition to Buildings that provide resource-producing Jobs, there is also a wide variety of buildings that provide for the material and social needs of your Pops, such as Luxury Housing for your upper class Pops, Entertainment Buildings to make your populace happy and Law Enforcement to quell unrest and crime. Densely populated planets tend to require more such buildings, as the need for Housing and Amenities scales upwards with Pops and Infrastructure.
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Whew, that was a lot of words. Still, we're only just getting started on the Planetary Rework and next week we'll continue talking about it, on the topic of Stratas, Pop Jobs, Housing and Migration.
 
@Wiz How has the new planetary management system in general, and the removal of the tile system in particular, affected mid-late game performance on your end, or is it too early to tell? I can only imagine how much memory is put into tracking the thousands and thousands of pops being shuffled around by the AI on a daily basis, but this is theoretically not as severe an issue without the tile system.

On an unrelated note, have you considered causing all claims on a particular system to be revoked if that system changes ownership? It's a real pain to suddenly lose an ally because they took systems I had claims on, causing them to hate me because I now have claims on them. At least the player can revoke their own claims, but as far as I can tell, the AI doesn't do this, making their alliances suddenly fall apart. Just saying.
 
Sure, we could fundamentally alter the tile system in a such a way to allow these, by for example making it so each tile could support several sub-tiles with additional pops and buildings, but by doing this we will inevitably lose the easy visual presentation that makes the system attractive to begin with
While I prefer your version a part of me just imagined a threedimenional tile system, it'd be cool if someone actually did that some day.
will be fundamental choices that create diverse and distinct planets that each have their own role to fill in your empire.
Yes uniqueness is amongst the most important things there are. No two planets should preferably feel the same. To that effect I think a lot of anomalies should generate deposits which should allow for the building of unique buildings and building upgrades.
Four part... who's up for planetary revolt for this giant cliffhanger ? :mad::D
ladda ned.jpeg
Habitats will probably remain locked behind an Ascension Perk as we want it to be part of an active game style choice instead of something you simply build every game.
It already is something people build pretty much every game. It's sort of a mandatory perk.
Other than fluff and how frequently they appear, no difference.
Again you could have unique buildings and upgrades being dependent on the deposits that are available.
I just kinda wish the buildings weren't called buildings, seeming as they apparently usually aren't actually buildings. "Specialized infrastructure" or something sounds appropriate, though a statue probably wouldn't count as that.
I think "Institutions & corporations" with science buildings being institutes and most production ones being corporations (under certain government they'd all be corporations or none).
That's a rather unwieldy term. I'm considering renaming them to 'Facilities' though.
Call the science ones institutes and the production ones corporations. And call them jointly "corporations and institutions".
Also would be cool of every individual "building" got a unique name. I mean there are so few of them so you could potentially make it work. Would be so cool if UNE started out with the Sagan Institute.
It could have a namelist just like fleetnames and so on.
And events could refer to specific "buildings" relating to the thing they relate to on the planet. Instead of saying scientists of a certain planet is looking into this anomaly it says it's taken back to this and that institute for futher studies.
Though, i should add that 108 infrastructure is only 18 city districts, so yes, it is definitely easily achievable.
Depends on how much of its own food a planet needs to grow and how much work it is to import it from elsewhere.
Alien ruins that add infrastructure, housing etc is definitely one of the potential uses I had in mind for the deposits system. :)
I'd go with "points of intrest" instead of deposits. Heck you could have some rather unique ones say finding curiosity on mars. Or the voyager (satelite) crashed on some planet.
Yeah. The colony shelter adds special 'colonist jobs' that provide basic amenities and resources, and you have to build up a certain level of infrastructure before you can upgrade the capital and access most building types.
Oh will we finally get colony growth events like how you get those cool events when infiltrating primitives?
will the special buildings from FEs become actual buildings or 'districs'? it could be builings because the planets are already fully developed.
I would guess both.
Yet another reason I used to enjoy this game removed. Agh. Sad to see the turn this game has taken in development. Would have loved to see what could have been.
Oh no stellaris no longer uses the tile system, now there are no games left out there which does... oh wait.
Primitives have their own jobs and such, pre-sapients no longer compete with your colonists for space on the planet.
Cool. Can they serve as blockers for "deposits" though? It would lend itself to some cool stories. Also their presence should be a sort of deposit in their own right.
I hear Paleontologist do the same
Really? I thought all they did was sell seashells by the seashore.
When Wiz said he wanted to make the best Space 4X game I assumed he meant past and present games. I didn't realize he also meant all future games! Stellaris looks to be on track to become one of the best 4X games ever made! Good job devs.
Yeah Stellaris is really setting a New paradigm.
 
I was very negative about the population change because it reminded me of Eu4 interfaces, I like EU4 but, don't really love it. I read Wiz's tweets/messages explaining it had more in common with Vicky 2.

My opinion of the new planet system did change a lot once I started playing Victoria 2. It also has the core concept of 'pops is power' just like Stellaris, but much more advanced it, also mattered a lot more what your pops do what kind of classes they perform etc. So this looks great and I'm excited about the change.

On the other hand, the Tile System did do a better job of giving me a visual connection to the pops of my empire. I remain skeptical if the new systems will give the same level of immersion on the visual end.
 
Yes, but not quite. When a bank receives a deposit, it can turn that deposit into a loan at a rate higher than the deposit's value and they only keep a fraction of the deposit as a required reserve. If everyone withdrew their money at the same time, a bank would go bankrupt, because it simply doesn't have that money on hand. In essence, the entire banking system is built on the faith that people won't all withdraw their deposits at the same time.

No, that is not how it works. The Central Bank (European Central Bank in Europe, the Federal Reserve in the USA etc) lends money (at a fixed interest rate) to the banks which then lend money (at a higher interest rate) to companies or people. The banks cover the possible loss with their own capital or by borrowing money from other banks. Your deposits are NOT used by the banks to lend money.

If there is an economic crisis the problem is that many people ask the banks to use their money on financial markets. Most of the time, the banks lost that money and might require some time to recover it.

Last but not least, if the banks crumble, they do not reimburse the Central Bank which might hinder its ability to lend money to other banks also dependent on their ability to borrow and lend, putting the system in danger.

It's funny how most people think that private bank create money, when it is the Central Bank who control the creation of money by setting interest rate. It would be absurd to let private companies control one of the most fundamental element of any state : its money.
 
Guess I'm not clear enough. Currently: 16 tiles planet. OK I'm gonna add 16 mines because that is what I want (yeah I know it's dumb but don't care too much please). Future: 16 tiles ocean planet? Ah well sorry but you have only 5 industrial districts available. I'm not inventing, that's what the screenshots suggest. I'm not against the idea but that's a major change to be aware of in term of gameplay and specie selection.

Now what if you place that particular ocean planet in the middle of an industrial sector? It will behave quite differently than it would in the current game and this a significant change.
Building 16 mines over a planet now is suboptimal because you almost always get more out of matching buildings to tile resources over the long term.

Also, if yoiu're going off the screenshots, your numbers are off.

We have the example of a 16-size ocean world; this ocean world has 8 mineral deposits, 7 food deposits, and 6 energy deposits.

Specializing that world in Industrial capacity- that is, clearing and developing all 8 mineral deposits into Industrial Districts- would use a full half of the planet's total district capacity. What would the AI do with the other 8 potential districts if you'd put the planet into an Industrial-focus sector? Dunno. Presumably fill it with whatever else it thinks it needs; if the sector is low on energy, maybe it'll be smart enough to build a Generator District or two. Or maybe it'll just fill up the other 8 with City Districts. Either one seems entirely possible; maybe there'll be some additional tickboxes to manage that sort of behaviour, even.

But "sectors will focus on whatever you assign them to focus on" seems a pretty reasonable assumption, which in this system would clearly mean focusing on Districts that align with the sector's assigned focus.

What districts are available isn't likely to be tied to biome any more than it is now, is my point. Why would it matter that it's an ocean world? Why would you think Ocean worlds can only ever have "five" mineral deposits? As far as we've been told, it's still just random chance. Species biome preference wouldn't be any more important than it already is.
 
I am startled by how many people contribute constructive feedback…
Keep it up!
 
Oh wow, a 4 parter Dev diary. I can't wait to see all the changes. I was kinda apprehensive (albeit interested) at first, since I'm finally getting the hang of the tile system, but this is looking better and better with each update. I can't wait to see all the roleplaying opportunities to this! I wanted to try recreating Star Wars without mods recently, and now it looks like that'll be possible with the advent of city planets, along with the other stuff announced :D

One question: Will any other gameplay aspects be getting a rework or expansion along with this update? LIke the ascension paths for example?
 
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Guys, something nobody thought of asking.
This means that now ANY planet could be colonized (possibly depending or Mod, or not), even Barren Worlds, Gas Giants and Molten Worlds.
That means, you can actually now have a Molten World pumping up minerals instead of just building a mineral station on "inhabitable" planets.
Please, let this be true.
I would love to actually build a colony on Venus or a sparsely populated but doing lots of scientific research station on one of the Moons of Jupiter or Saturn.
 
Guys, something nobody thought of asking.
This means that now ANY planet could be colonized (possibly depending or Mod, or not), even Barren Worlds, Gas Giants and Molten Worlds.
That means, you can actually now have a Molten World pumping up minerals instead of just building a mineral station on "inhabitable" planets.
Please, let this be true.
I would love to actually build a colony on Venus or a sparsely populated but doing lots of scientific research station on one of the Moons of Jupiter or Saturn.
If colonization of barren planets is addded someday the max number of districts and housing in barren planets should be very low and create these type of colony should be a high investment in minerals, energy and time.
 
Ok, I know the numbers aren't final, but I can't wait. Here are some strategy considerations that I came up with based on what we know so far:
-> Infrastructure is probably 5 + 2*resource_districts + 6*city_districts.
-> You get a building slot for each 10 infrastructure.
-> Each manufacturing building gives a job for each 20 infrastructure.
-> Each science- and culture-building gives a job for each 30 infrastructure.

This incentivises you to concentrate your infrastructure as much as possible, since more infrastrucuture means more buildings and also each one of your buildings gets more efficient. You probably don't want to have manufacturing/research on a planet with less than 60 infrastructure, which gives you 3 manufacturer jobs and 2 research jobs per building and 6 buildings total (7 with administration). That means 18 manufacturing jobs, 12 research jobs or something in between. Compare that with 59 infrastructure, which is 10 manufacturing jobs or 5 research jobs, which is much less.

The next big jumps are:
-> 80 infrastructure, which gives 32 manufacturing jobs (compared to 21 jobs at 79 infrastructure).
-> 90 infrastructure, which gives 27 research jobs (compared to 16 jobs at 89 infrastrucuture).
-> 100 infrastructure, which gives 50 manufacturing jobs (compared to 36 jobs at 99 infrastructure).
-> 120 infrastructure, which gives 66 manufacturing jobs and 44 research jobs (compared to 55/33 at 119 infrastructure).

We can see that a single planet with 120 infrastructure has almost the same amount of jobs as four planets with 60 infrastructure, which is probably pretty good? The minimum planet size needed to reach 120 infrastructure seems to be 20, with 19 city-districts and 1 resource district (5 + 1*2 + 19*6 = 121). Since it doesn't seem to make much sense to have more than 120 infrastructure, larger planets mean that we can have some more resource districts in there:
-> A size 22 planet reaches 120 infrastructure with 18 city districts and 4 resource districts (5 + 4*2 + 18*6 = 121).
-> A size 25 planet reaches 120 infrastructure with 17 city districts and 8 resource districts (5 + 8*2 + 17*6 = 123).
 
Guys, something nobody thought of asking.
This means that now ANY planet could be colonized (possibly depending or Mod, or not), even Barren Worlds, Gas Giants and Molten Worlds.
That means, you can actually now have a Molten World pumping up minerals instead of just building a mineral station on "inhabitable" planets.
Please, let this be true.
I would love to actually build a colony on Venus or a sparsely populated but doing lots of scientific research station on one of the Moons of Jupiter or Saturn.
Omg! Yes please! It could just be more expensive to resemble the required facilities until it is terraformed, or there could be some disadvantages to consumption of goods, but hell yes, I want to send my best scientists to Mars!
 
Other than fluff and how frequently they appear, no difference.

You could probably give some differences here that aren't fluff to make things more interesting, though I'm not sure what that would be offhand and while I'm very much half asleep.

Yeah, a lot of things from anomalies etc that are buildings in the tile system will be deposits instead (we're probably going to end up calling it something other than deposits).

How about Planetary Features? That sounds generic enough to fit just about everything while also being descriptive sounding.

People always seem to think a feature is inspired by one particular game or another, or that 'Stellaris is becoming X'. The truth is that we're always drawing on lots of sources, including but not limited to games, movies, books, shows and, in fact, our very own design ideas. Having something that's similarly named to a mechanic in another game doesn't really mean much other than that there's a limited number of words in the english language.

I mean, this doesn't bother me much in the sense of "Oh, this looks like X", though I'll freely admit- with all of say, X, Y, and Z space strategy games and even other strategy games, including the ones Paradox has already made before, I find some small annoyance that I just cannot get rid of when I see these awesome features and such and yet think to myself "Why wasn't this in from the start?" It's especially annoying when some things to me feel like they either come completely from some of Paradoxes other games, or feel like tweaks of those mechanics from CK2, EUIV, or Victoria but given enough changes to be fitting for Stellaris.

Like how I still feel towards Diplomacy and find myself wondering why we don't have some of the things that are possible in EUIV and Victoria when it comes to diplomacy (especially EUIV given it wraps in both the idea of covert stuff as being part of foreign affairs and internal security to a lesser extent, and the idea that some diplomatic actions require certain technologies)
 
Building 16 mines over a planet now is suboptimal because you almost always get more out of matching buildings to tile resources over the long term.
Consider planet modifiers too. You should build a 16 mines planet with a +25% minerals modifier. The effect is dope.

Also, if yoiu're going off the screenshots, your numbers are off.
Well you got the main idea so it's OK. I did not use the number of the prototype for some reason.

What districts are available isn't likely to be tied to biome any more than it is now, is my point.
That's what needs to be clarified because of the effect on the gameplay. I don't know if the prototypes were chosen as per design or just for the artistic view.
 
What districts are available isn't likely to be tied to biome any more than it is now, is my point. Why would it matter that it's an ocean world? Why would you think Ocean worlds can only ever have "five" mineral deposits? As far as we've been told, it's still just random chance. Species biome preference wouldn't be any more important than it already is.

Planet type already effects the likelihood of certain deposits spawning as well as what modifiers will spawn. Perhaps these differences will be increased in the next version - only Wiz can say for sure.