• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
Hello everyone and welcome to another Stellaris development diary. Today, we're going to start talking about the Planetary Rework coming in the 2.2 'Le Guin' update - the complete redesign of the planetary management system and replacement of planetary tiles. This is going to be a really big topic, so we're spreading it out across four dev diaries, with today's dev diary being about Deposits, Buildings and Districts. Please bear in mind that everything shown is in an early stage of development, and there will be rough-looking interfaces, placeholder art, non final numbers and all those things that people assume are final and complain about anyway no matter how many of these disclaimers I write. :p

Planetary Rework
Before I start going into details on the actual rework, I just wanted to briefly talk about the reasons and goals that are behind this massive rework, and why we're removing tiles and building a new system instead of iterating on the existing systems. For me, getting away from the constraints of tiles has been my single most desired long-term goal for the game. It's not that I think the tile system is inherently a bad system - it works well to visualize your pops and buildings and for the early game it works well enough in giving the player some interesting economic management decisions. However, the tile system is also very constrictive, in a way I feel is detrimental to the very core concepts of Stellaris. The hard limitation of one pop and one building per tile, as well as the hard limitation of 25 tiles/pops/buildings to a planet, it severely limits the kind of societies and planets that we can present in the game.

Do we want to make city-planets, with enormous numbers of pops concentrated onto a single world? Not possible. Do we want to have a fully automated post-scarcity empire where robots do all the actual work? Can't be done without losing out on valuable building space. Sure, we could fundamentally alter the tile system in a such a way to allow these, by for example making it so each tile could support several sub-tiles with additional pops and buildings, but by doing this we will inevitably lose the easy visual presentation that makes the system attractive to begin with, and even then we would continue to be held back by the limit of one pop per building. In other words, we'd end up with something that superficially might resemble the old tile system but offers none of its main advantages and continues to be held back by most of its drawbacks.

When designing the new planetary management system we set out a number of design goals:
- The new system should be able to simulate a wide variety of different societies, to build on the roleplaying and diversity in play-throughs that is such a fundamental part of the Stellaris experience
- The new system needed to offer more interesting choices about how to develop your planets, while simultaneously reducing the amount of uninteresting micromanagement such as mass-upgrading buildings
- The new system should make your planets feel like places where Pops actually live their lives, as opposed to just being resource gathering hubs
- The new system had to be extremely moddable, to make it easier both for us and modders to create new types of empires and playstyles

We believe that this new system that we have created will not only vastly improve many of the features in the game that we couldn't get working properly with the tile system, but together with the resource rework discussed in the last dev diary will also make it possible for us to create truly weird and alien societies that play entirely differently from anything the game currently has to offer, or would ever have to offer if we had remained constrained by the tile system.

Deposits
Under the old tile system, deposits were simply clumps of resources placed on a tile, which would be gathered by a pop and determined what kind of buildings were most efficient to place there. Under the new system, deposits are more akin to planetary terrain and features. Every habitable planet will have a (semi-randomized) number of deposits, with larger planets usually having more deposits. Deposits represent areas on the planet that can be economically exploited, and most commonly increase the number of a particular District (more on this below) that can be build on the planet. For example, a Fertile Lands deposit represents various regions of fertile farmland, and increases the number of Agriculture Districts that can be built on the planet, and thus its potential Food output.
2018_08_16_0.png

(Note: All deposit pictures shown here are placeholders, there will be new art for them that isn't done yet)

Not all Deposits affect Districts however - some (such as Crystalline Caverns or Betharian Fields) are rare deposits that allow for the construction of special Buildings (more on this below) on the planet, while others yet may simply provide a passive benefit to the planet, such as a spectacularly beautiful wilderness area that increases happiness for Pops living on the planet. Deposits can have Deposit Blockers that work in a similar way to the Tile Blockers of old, cancelling out the benefits of the Deposit until the Blocker is removed through the expenditure of time and resources. A planet can have multiples of the same Deposit, and there is no hard limit to the number of Deposits that a planet can hold (though there is a cap to how many will be generated under normal circumstances). The types of Deposits that can show up on a planet is affected by the planet class, so where an Ocean World might get its Agriculture from Kelp Forests, an Arctic World would have Fungal Caverns instead.
2018_08_16_1.png

(Note: All deposit pictures shown here are placeholders, there will be new art for them that isn't done yet)

Districts
Districts are at at the core of how planets are developed in the Le Guin update. Districts represent large areas of development on the planet dedicated towards housing or resource gathering. For most empires, there are four basic types of Districts: City Districts, Mining Districts, Generator Districts and Agriculture Districts. There are exceptions to this (such as Hive Minds having Hive Districts) but more on this in a later DD. The total number of districts you can build on a planet is equal to its size, so a size 16 planet can support 16 districts in any combination of the types available to you. Additionally, the resource-producing districts (Mining, Generator and Agriculture) are further constrained by the Deposits on the planet, so a planet might only be able to support a maximum of 8 Mining Districts due to there simply not being any further opportunities for mining on the planet. City Districts are never limited by the deposits on the planet, so you can choose to forego a planet's natural resources and blanket it entirely in urban development if you so choose.

The effects of each District is as follows:
  • City District: Provides a large amount of Housing for Pops, Infrastructure for Buildings and Clerk Jobs that produce Trade Value and Luxury Goods
  • Mining District: Provides a small amount of Housing/Infrastructure and Mining Jobs that produce Minerals
  • Agriculture District: Provides a small amount of Housing/Infrastructure and Farming Jobs that produce Food
  • Generator District: Provides a small amount of Housing/Infrastructure and Technician Jobs that produce Energy Credits
There will be more details on most of the concepts mentioned above coming in the other dev diaries. For now, suffice to say that the way you develop your planets with Districts will shape that planet's role in your empire - a heavily urbanized planet will be densely populated, supporting numerous Buildings and specialist Pop Jobs such as Researchers and providing Trade Value for your empire's trade routes (more on this in a future DD), but at the expense of not being able to produce much of the raw resources that are needed to fuel your empire's growth and manufacturing capacity.

A planet's Deposits and Planetary Modifiers may influence this decision - a large planet with High Quality Minerals and numerous Mining Deposits will certainly make for a lucrative mining world, but what if it also sits in a perfect spot to make a heavily urbanized trade hub? No longer are choices regarding planets simply limited to 'Where do I place the capital for the best adjacency bonuses?' and 'Should I follow the tile resource or not?' but will be fundamental choices that create diverse and distinct planets that each have their own role to fill in your empire.
2018_08_16_3.png


Buildings
In the Le Guin update, Buildings are specialized Facilities that provide a variety of Jobs and Resources that are not suitable to large-scale resource gathering. For example, instead of having your scientists working in a Physics Lab on a Physics Deposit (whatever that is supposed to be...) you now instead construct a Research Labs building (representing not a single laboratory but rather an allocation of resources towards the sciences across the planet) which provides a number of Pop Researcher Jobs that conduct research for your empire. Buildings are limited by the planet's Infrastructure, with one building 'slot' being unlocked for each 10 Infrastructure on the planet. Some Buildings are also limited in the number you can build on a planet, while others can be built in multiples (for example, a planet can only support a single Autotchton Monument, while you can have as many Alloy Foundries as the slots allow). Buildings can still be upgraded to more advanced versions, but generally there will be far fewer upgrades to do and those upgrades will often require an investment of rare and expensive resources, so it's more of an active choice than something you simply have to click your way through after unlocking a tech.
2018_08_16_5.png


Infrastructure comes primarily from constructing Districts, with City Districts giving much more Infrastructure than resource gathering districts do (6 as opposed to 2 in the current internal build, though non final numbers and all that). In addition to unlocking additional Building slots, a higher Infrastructure level also makes some Buildings more efficient, as the number of jobs they provide is fully or partially determined by the planet's Infrastructure level. For example, in the current internal build, Research Labs and Alloy Foundries both have the number of jobs they provide determined by the infrastructure level, meaning that concentrating your research and manufacturing to your heavily urbanized planets is generally more efficient than trying to turn your agri-worlds into science hubs. In addition to Buildings that provide resource-producing Jobs, there is also a wide variety of buildings that provide for the material and social needs of your Pops, such as Luxury Housing for your upper class Pops, Entertainment Buildings to make your populace happy and Law Enforcement to quell unrest and crime. Densely populated planets tend to require more such buildings, as the need for Housing and Amenities scales upwards with Pops and Infrastructure.
2018_08_16_6.png


Whew, that was a lot of words. Still, we're only just getting started on the Planetary Rework and next week we'll continue talking about it, on the topic of Stratas, Pop Jobs, Housing and Migration.
 
why is it that when ever i feel like rebalancing my mod load and getting back in to the game a new update looms that makes me feel "omg thats amazing are these guys gods?!? bettere wait till it hits"
 
I have to admit I was skeptical at first, but this seems like the best change to come to Stellaris yet. I really respect the fact that Wiz and the dev team aren't afraid to shake up things to improve gameplay. This sounds amazing for both regular and role-playing playthroughs!

Keep up the good work there ☺️
 
We haven't really decided whether to change it or not yet. We may just have it increase max districts instead of actually changing size of planet.

Any chance Master of Nature will increase the max amount of districts through unlocking a terraforming option that turns your planet into an ecumenopolis? I think that would be really fitting the gameplay and simultaneously adding interesting fluff. A downside of this terraforming could be that all deposits are permanently removed as those are completely stripped/built over
 
As was hinted to in a twitter mention, most likely the ecumenopolis will be already in the game, and may exist as a planet solely having built city districts.
The Mastery of Nature ascension perk in game mechanics terms simply increases the planetary size (and adds Gaia terraforming). In the case of your suggestion, after terraforming through this action your planetwide city will basically be a slightly bigger one, adding potentially 1-3 more city district capacity.

In a previous response Wiz already mentioned that after this type of terraforming planetary deposits might get altered/removed.

Any chance Master of Nature will increase the max amount of districts through unlocking a terraforming option that turns your planet into an ecumenopolis? I think that would be really fitting the gameplay and simultaneously adding interesting fluff. A downside of this terraforming could be that all deposits are permanently removed as those are completely stripped/built over
 
As was hinted to in a twitter mention, most likely the ecumenopolis will be already in the game, and may exist as a planet solely having built city districts.
The Mastery of Nature ascension perk in game mechanics terms simply increases the planetary size (and adds Gaia terraforming). In the case of your suggestion, after terraforming through this action your planetwide city will basically be a slightly bigger one, adding potentially 1-3 more city district capacity.

In a previous response Wiz already mentioned that after this type of terraforming planetary deposits might get altered/removed.

Ah of course, he did mention that. I do think it makes sense that an ecumenopolis would get more added capacity however; Master of Nature's added tiles as it is right now feels more like expanding infrastructure to the few remaining wildlands rather than creating huge amounts of land through terraforming. Draining swamps instead of draining oceans.

Anyways I'd love to have the option of terraforming a planet into either a Gaia world or an ecumenopolis, with each type having their own advantages and disadvantages (e.g. habitability/amenities versus housing/jobs, abundance versus efficiency). Completely filling a planet with city districts doesn't really sound like a city covering the entire world, as the planet would still have rural or unoccupied areas like oceans and deserts. An ecumenopolis is full-on terraforming, not just a heavily urbanised planet.
 
Oh I see, a heavy urbanized e.g. Ocean world is not an ecumenopolis and as thus would require its own type, just like Gaia-world or Machine-world. Mastery of Nature, could then indeed unlock the Ecumenopolis world type too. I agree with you.

Completely filling a planet with city districts doesn't really sound like a city covering the entire world, as the planet would still have rural or unoccupied areas like oceans and deserts. An ecumenopolis is full-on terraforming, not just a heavily urbanised planet.
 
What? You complain about not being able to secure all entrances on high density (which would be the point of high density) forcing you to go with low density so that you can, but then you take issue with other empires being able to secure their chokes as well?

That was not what I was complaining about... AI algorithm for placement of bastion is not the same thing/issue as galaxy RNG placement of hyperlane routes. Way to take that out of context. If AI was placing anchoarge all along the front line we would be having a very different conversation.

I like to play ironman at nearly non-mod/standard setting as intended by the game developer with few to none deviant from standard. Just to put this into context this was on small 200 star galaxy with 6 regular AI + one fallen empire without apoc and distant star DLC installed. Everything else was on standard.

The problem is that hyperlane is too restrictive in how you can access all corners of galaxy. Typically I would declare war on someone with the intent to partially eat them and open up routes. But if there are no routes without trigger a war with a fallen empire that is a problem because AI also don't know what to do except sit and development non-stop. Even if there was two it would be likely that one would take everything from another AI and run out of things to do.

In my earlier screenshot linked you can see that with my outpost bisect someone's empire in the bottom left which let me start prepare a second front for invasion into Raxycodium Citizen Alliance (really I have 3 fronts with one out of view in galaxy south). Here it is again in spoiler tag. But even if I did conquered everything except for Omni Animus I would still have to wait or reverse engineer jump drive or something late-game to just reach Omni Animus. By the time I tackle Fallen Empire I would have tier 5 components and Omni Animus would not be able to put up much of a fight at that point. In other word boring end-game gameplay.

55D2EB4D491EC58179F26772E80745DD83C5159E
 
so let's get this straight

1. you have weird hangups about playing anything other than default settings

2. at default settings you occasionally can't blurple the map without some inconvenience or delay

3. this is somehow an existential problem with the 2.0 ftl changes that invalidates the whole thing
 
so let's get this straight

1. you have weird hangups about playing anything other than default settings

2. at default settings you occasionally can't blurple the map without some inconvenience or delay

3. this is somehow an existential problem with the 2.0 ftl changes that invalidates the whole thing
That seems to be common among a certain subset of the anti-FTL-change-crowd, all they want to do is paint the map as fast as possible and Warp/Wormhole used to be perfect for that. So they are upset about hyperlanes only, completely ignoring the fact that they can just crank up hyperlane density to max.

I'm glad that the planet rework appears to be more welcome in general.
 
This looks awesome, and I look forward to the next three dev diaries. The concept is also eerily similar to a system I was thinking of for the past two months.

Three suggestions:

(1) Planetary industry should affect ship construction speed and cost. Right now, it's possible to turn any backwater into a major fleet fabrication point, and to instantly adapt a captured starbase to spam out ships as though it was always in friendly hands. It also means players will always put up trade hubs in their settled systems and shipyards in out of the way backwaters. Linking industrial and commercial output of planets to the associated outpost's output will force players to choose between economic and industrial goals and will give empires a strategic center of gravity that's currently completely absent.

(2) Please do something with habitats so that they do not spam up the outliner and do not involve quite as much mindless clicking to set up and then ignore for the remainder of the game. Or get rid of them entirely.

Edit:

(3) Please consider imitating the planet graphic system from Sword of the Stars. In Sword of the Stars, the night-time overlay changes based on planetary population, and the lights are realistically concentrated around the coasts and valleys. In Stellaris, the night-time overlay looks like a glued-on wallpaper.
 
Last edited:
so let's get this straight

1. you have weird hangups about playing anything other than default settings

2. at default settings you occasionally can't blurple the map without some inconvenience or delay

3. this is somehow an existential problem with the 2.0 ftl changes that invalidates the whole thing

That seems to be common among a certain subset of the anti-FTL-change-crowd, all they want to do is paint the map as fast as possible and Warp/Wormhole used to be perfect for that. So they are upset about hyperlanes only, completely ignoring the fact that they can just crank up hyperlane density to max.

I'm glad that the planet rework appears to be more welcome in general.

It would seems like you both missed the point.

I am a devourer swarm for the combat bonus trying for the achievement "Victorious" via conquest and decide to have some fun with more AI in the galaxy instead of doing one on one with no neutral or fallen empire.

There is no hangup over the galaxy setting and I deliberately picked this setting for something slight more interesting than a straight up one on one fight and game over. Now this is exactly the opposite of what I intended. The game will now be dragging on for even longer until crisis show up before I can deal with Omni Animus. They might even declare war on me while I am fighting off the crisis.

As for hyperlane setting and why 1x instead of tweak it to something else. Remember that starbase are supposed to defend but if you crank up you no longer can use them as defend bastion. At which point you turn all of them into energy hub or anchorage. At which point why do gun/missile/hangar module exists at 5x hyperlane density?
 
It would seems like you both missed the point.

I am a devourer swarm for the combat bonus trying for the achievement "Victorious" via conquest and decide to have some fun with more AI in the galaxy instead of doing one on one with no neutral or fallen empire.

There is no hangup over the galaxy setting and I deliberately picked this setting for something slight more interesting than a straight up one on one fight and game over. Now this is exactly the opposite of what I intended. The game will now be dragging on for even longer until crisis show up before I can deal with Omni Animus. They might even declare war on me while I am fighting off the crisis.

As for hyperlane setting and why 1x instead of tweak it to something else. Remember that starbase are supposed to defend but if you crank up you no longer can use them as defend bastion. At which point you turn all of them into energy hub or anchorage. At which point why do gun/missile/hangar module exists at 5x hyperlane density?

Reading your posts, and others responses.. I'm really under the impression that YOU are the one not getting it... On one hand you want more choices, and more interesting gameplay, then on the other you get a bit upset when that happens.

Stellaris is a game about randomization. It seems you hit a randomization you didn't really like, and now are complaining about it as if its some huge problem. Re roll a new game. That's what stellaris is.

If you want less restricting movement, add more hyperlanes at the start...

if you dont want stuff blocking your advances, remove those pesky fallen empires...

To go into a game with restrictive mvoement by limiting your hyperlane density, very small map, and a fallen empire you know you will have to play around, then complain the game is restricting you.. .well I'm sorry but that's entirely 100% your fault.

Increasing the hyperlane density doesn't automatically make starbase bastions useless.. you'll still get choke points, and narrow passages. You may have to build 2 bastions instead of 1 to close off an advance, but they are still viable, especially on such a small map as yours..

but then here you are complaining that opening your movement allowing you to do what you want is somehow bad because then you can't make bastions (which you still can) to defend, and that's bad too....

So you want a game where you aren't restricted and you can end quickly in 1 on 1's, but you dont want to do that because you want choke points to defend? huh?

You didn't set the game up to allow you to do that, because you... iddn't want a quick 1 on 1, and yet you're example of what you want to do seems to be exactly that.. ... I 'm sorry the more I go into this the more back and forth your argument is getting....

You want your cake and to eat it too.. Doesn't work that way.
 
As for hyperlane setting and why 1x instead of tweak it to something else. Remember that starbase are supposed to defend but if you crank up you no longer can use them as defend bastion. At which point you turn all of them into energy hub or anchorage. At which point why do gun/missile/hangar module exists at 5x hyperlane density?
A) They can still be used to protect systems with important planets
B) If you want chokepoints then why are you complaining about chokepoints?
 
(1) Planetary industry should affect ship construction speed and cost. Right now, it's possible to turn any backwater into a major fleet fabrication point, and to instantly adapt a captured starbase to spam out ships as though it was always in friendly hands. It also means players will always put up trade hubs in their settled systems and shipyards in out of the way backwaters. Linking industrial and commercial output of planets to the associated outpost's output will force players to choose between economic and industrial goals and will give empires a strategic center of gravity that's currently completely absent.

@Wiz

This ^

The biggest issues right now in the game, that this could fix is exactly this.. It creates a serious snowball issue in wars, where the defender has little ability to fight back once they start losing. The winner gets these high end shipyards and instantly starts crapping out hundreds of ships a week, even though the planet that should be feeding this starbase is completely destroyed, taken over, and virtually no production.

Linking Starbases economy/production output to the planets in the system would go a long way to creating more diversity and strategy at the same time.

You could even give Bastions a boost in power if a planet is in the same system with military buildings directly supplying that Bastion with manpower and soldiers.
 
There is no hangup over the galaxy setting and I deliberately picked this setting for something slight more interesting than a straight up one on one fight and game over. Now this is exactly the opposite of what I intended. The game will now be dragging on for even longer until crisis show up before I can deal with Omni Animus. They might even declare war on me while I am fighting off the crisis.
"I deliberately picked this setting for something slight more interesting than a straight up one on one fight"

*game gives you something other than a straight up one on one fight

"wow 2.0 broke the game smh"