Stellaris Dev Diary #132 - Ecumenopolis and Megastructures

[Lanrete]

I don't think you know what privatized and public mean...

Public corporations are still private companies.

A privately owned government isn't possible unless it's a corporation.

Public corporation stop being private companies, if they are turned into public countries. The thing with the megacorps is: they are corps, that became countries, and as such, took many of the government's qualities and properties. In stellaris, a megacorp is not a part of some "mother"-empire, not, the corp IS the empire, with taxes, laws, police, policies, army, fleet, state propaganda, territories, planets, politics, flags, diplomacy, wars, borders on the map, a "corporate" state-name, etc etc etc.

 

[Arkangilos]

No they do not. If it is a corporation it is a private company, that is what makes it a corporation. You do realize that corporations have their own laws already, right? They are basically governments in themselves. The only thing that stops them from having total control of your life is that the real government exists.

If the regular government went away, the corporation would stay what it is but be able to regulate everything in your life.

It's clear you have no idea what you are talking about.

Although it's never happened to be fair, so really none of us know.

 

[Lanrete]

No they do not. If it is a corporation it is a private company, that is what makes it a corporation. You do realize that corporations have their own laws already, right? They are basically governments in themselves. The only thing that stops them from having total control of your life is that the real government exists.

If the regular government went away, the corporation would stay what it is but be able to regulate everything in your life.

It's clear you have no idea what you are talking about.

Although it's never happened to be fair, so really none of us know.

If the corporation replaces a regular government- the corporation becomes a regular government, with a corporative theme. It is logical. And to an extent, it did happen IRL with some of the imperial-era corps, and stuff like merchant republics.

 

[Zarpaulus]

You realize that there are corporations run by the people, right? Like share holders vote on a board of directors, vote on decisions they make, vote to confirm the CEO's, etc? Corporations exist in many shapes and sizes, from privately owned to publically traded. I've been in one that was authoritarian with the CEO not having to report to anyone (she was the owner), and I've seen some that are basically democracies.

Unless you restrict ownership of voting shares to one per person it becomes a plutocratic oligarchy as the wealthy elite buy a majority of shares.

 

[Calvax]

Unless you restrict ownership of voting shares to one per person it becomes a plutocratic oligarchy as the wealthy elite buy a majority of shares.

Simple headcanon: shares per capita are represented by political power. Megacorps with ethics and policies that allow for great disparity represent oligarchic or even authoritarian corps. Those where PP are equal between strata represent co-op federations where shares are restricted to one-per-person, are issued at birth and reclaimed/destroyed upon death.

 

[Arkangilos]

Unless you restrict ownership of voting shares to one per person it becomes a plutocratic oligarchy as the wealthy elite buy a majority of shares.

In the case where a lot of people own shares, but if it's a private corporation then there could be only one owner with a vote.

Besides, no one is saying it isn't an oligarchy. We are saying that it's just not the government form of oligarchy, because it's not a literal government, it's a corporation.

 

[Lasagna Star Empire]

How is this possible to have 100% habitability on a giant city? How do people breathe if there's no vegetation to generate oxygen?

 

[Arkangilos]

If the corporation replaces a regular government- the corporation becomes a regular government, with a corporative theme. It is logical. And to an extent, it did happen IRL with some of the imperial-era corps, and stuff like merchant republics.

Except it didn't, because merchant republics weren't owned by a single company. Basically merchant republics were regular oligarchies, where the oligarchs were the merchants.

How is this possible to have 100% habitability on a giant city? WHERE COME FROM THE OXYGEN IF THERE'S NO VEGETATION?

Same place it comes from on ships: air purifiers.

 

[John Rusher]

How is this possible to have 100% habitability on a giant city? WHERE COME FROM THE OXYGEN IF THERE'S NO VEGETATION?

It is not true, there is vegetation, it just a garden-like vegetation.

 

[Lanrete]

How is this possible to have 100% habitability on a giant city? How do people breathe if there's no vegetation to generate oxygen?

Do they have forests in every single space ship? Do they have rainforests in submarines? Air generators/regenerators are a thing even in modern reality.

And a well-built luxury giant city can be much more habitable than some humid raindforest that consumes almost as much O2 as it produces, a normal forest with wild predators, an ocean shore with tornadoes, an artic permafrost.

Except it didn't, because merchant republics weren't owned by a single company. Basically merchant republics were regular oligarchies, where the oligarchs were the merchants.
.

Merchant guild=syndicate. Merchant family=corporation.

 

[Pointyearedgit]

It is not true, there is vegetation, it just a garden-like vegetation.

Do they have forests in every single space ship? Do they have rainforests in submarines? Air generators/regenerators are a thing even in modern reality.

And a well-built luxury giant city can be much more habitable than some forest with wild predators, an ocean shore with tornadoes, an artic permafrost.

Most oxygen on earth comes from algae in the oceans, they just slap systems on top of the city that maximize this effect by farming the algae.

 

[Arkangilos]

Merchant guild=syndicate. Merchant family=corporation.

You really need to do homework on what a corporation is because you clearly have no idea.

 

[Lasagna Star Empire]

Air generators/regenerators are a thing even in modern reality.

In the reality, there are bottles of air with air purifiers, but not air generators... or air is generated with algaes!

 

[Calvax]

Besides, no one is saying it isn't an oligarchy. We are saying that it's just not the government form of oligarchy, because it's not a literal government, it's a corporation.

I’m kind of saying it because of how the Devs have talked about them. Megacorps likely play like oligarchies for the most part but given that they can be fanatic egalitarian (along with the strata levelling options of that ethic) it’s possible to play them not oligarchically.

 

[Lanrete]

You really need to do homework on what a corporation is because you clearly have no idea.

Just because you start going personal and telling me to do smth, you do not prove your point. So, give some facts and arguments to prove your de-facto statement, that a corp!=merchant guild!=megacorp empire ingame.

In the reality, there are bottles of air with air purifiers, but not air generators... or air is generated with algaes!

Actually, there are air generators/regenerators.

 

[Zarpaulus]

In the case where a lot of people own shares, but if it's a private corporation then there could be only one owner with a vote.

Besides, no one is saying it isn't an oligarchy. We are saying that it's just not the government form of oligarchy, because it's not a literal government, it's a corporation.

You say that like a corporation and a government have to be different things.

The Populus Romanus corpus and the City of London Corporation would disagree. To say nothing of the East India Company's governorship of India.

 

[Lanrete]

I’m kind of saying it because of how the Devs have talked about them. Megacorps likely play like oligarchies for the most part but given that they can be fanatic egalitarian (along with the strata levelling options of that ethic) it’s possible to play them not oligarchically.

An oligachy that rules an egalitarian society, and is pretty much a "lesser authority" oligarchy, compared with more powerfull non-egalitarian oligarchies, is still an oligarchy that is played "oligarchically". And in the game, there is not even a "lesser authority" form, so, we have a "full power" oligarchy that rules an egalite societe. An oligarchy is not defined by stuff like egalite/antiegalite(but, yeah, oligarchy isn't very compatible with most egalitarian ideals, and in the game, it is fully incompatible with fanatic egalite), xenophobic/antixenophobic. There is no "special" "oligarchical" way to play without an oligarch, and an un-oligarchical way to play with an oligarch. As long as an empire is run by oligarchs- it is an oligarchy.

 

[Arkangilos]

Because I shouldn't have to hold your hand for you to know the basic definitions between them. But since you want it:

A corporations is a company designed to limit the liability of the owners. It is one of several types of businesses.

The main business types are Sole Proprietorship: The sole proprietorship is the simplest business form under which one can operate a business. The sole proprietorship is not a legal entity. It simply refers to a person who owns the business and is personally responsible for its debts.
Partnership: like the Sole Proprietorship only owned by more than one person. Merchants would be one of these two.

A corporation, on the other hand is as follows:

A corporation is a legal entity that is separate and distinct from its owners. Corporations enjoy most of the rights and responsibilities that an individual possesses: enter contracts, loan and borrow money, sue and be sued, hire employees, own assets and pay taxes.


If I own a partnership or a sole proprietorship, I own all the debts, assets, etc. I can choose who to hire, who to fire, etc.
If I own a corporation I do NOT own the debt, I do not own the assets, and I canny hire and fire whoever I want.

In a corporation, the corporation is its own entity, separate from me. If it owes 5billion in debt, I am safe. If a merchant family owes 5billion in debt, they are screwed.

You say that like a corporation and a government have to be different things.

The Populus Romanus corpus and the City of London Corporation would disagree. To say nothing of the East India Company's governorship of India.

Neither of those are corporations in this context, though. We are talking legal corporations.

 

[John Rusher]

Neither of those are corporations in this context, though. We are talking legal corporations.

East India Company isn't legal??????????????

 

[Arkangilos]

East India Company isn't legal??????????????

I wasn't referring to that, lol my bad. But it still doesn't apply because it still reported to the throne. Although it was also privately held, so I don't see how that is an argument against me?

It was also dissolved after being nationalized.