Stellaris Dev Diary #132 - Ecumenopolis and Megastructures

[hellatze]

Hehe blackhole going to be strategic.

Instead of big black ball.

 

[Snoipah]

Galactic Wonders is dangerously becoming a 'must pick'.

It's always been a must pick, as is master builders.

There are two other perks that are must picks but I'm not saying them so they don't get nerfed since I'm the only one who seems to realize it.

 

[Daoko__]

Not sure how to feel on these new megastructures...

Their design honestly looks pretty meh aside from Interstellar Assembly, they all seemed skewed towards the mammalian/humanoid shipsets. What I liked about the original megastructures is that it looked like ANYONE could have made them. But these megastructures they were clearly made with some bias in mind. Also the Mega Art Installation made me laugh, seeing as it's all about art but it's the ugliest one of the bunch. I mean, the Caravaners got a gorgeous UNIQUE shipset and all, it makes the new megastructures look like an afterthought without that much thought put into them.

Which leads into the bonuses they provide. Interstellar Assembly is beyond useless at the point you'd probably build it (given that it definitely WON'T take priority over buildng a Ringworld, Dyson, Sentry, Nexus (not even including the new ones that'll DEFINITELY be built before it)). It's sad that we already have the galactic market, otherwise I'd say transform it into a megastructure that allows the user to have it become a galactic marketplace, the benefits is that you gain all the taxes (which you can increase/decrease at your will) and gain the empire bonus. Plus you can lock out whoever you want from it. It's pretty weird that for a DLC skewed towards trade, NONE of the new megastructures that are unique to this DLC define or even touch on it at all. So I honestly don't know how you're going to change Interstellar Assembly to make it actually worth building, but it definitely needs to be changed or buffed.

 

[Captain Conundrum]

Is anyone else a tiny bit sad that the Interstellar Assembly doesn't look like Babylon 5?

 

[Draconaes]

"Anti-grav-engineering" seems to be not that necessary at all) ...
(If any, I would relate this to habitats and ring-worlds) ...

I'm not sure why. Habs and ringworlds aren't as deep inside a gravity well as a planet-city is. You want something to avoid all your structures falling down like dominoes, right?

 

[ShakenBake]

If Megastructures still can't be upgraded/built more than one at the same time. It will take centuries to build/upgrade them all

I agree. I think there are a lot of ways to address this while still keeping things balanced and rewarding specialization.

I think it would be nice if there was no concurrent construction/upgrade limit, but you had to unlock technologies in order to upgrade them to the higher tiers. You could build the first tier of everything once you have Galactic Wonders, but you'd either need a tech for each tier that applies to all megastructures, or a tech for each megastructure that unlocks all tiers.

I think the latter would be better, as it would still allow for some specialization, and they could even make it so that the chance of drawing the research option for upgrading other megastructures decreases every time one is researched. Alternatively, these research options could be spread in different research fields and made even more costly to research so that fully unlocking all of them would have a huge opportunity cost. Perhaps the research time or research option probability could also be influenced by empire ethics.

A simpler approach could be to just remove the one megastructure at a time limit and possibly add an influence cost to the upgrades themselves (rather than just the initial construction site) or increase the initial influence cost. One could rush multiple megastructures, but would likely have little influence left for edicts, claims, government reform etc. You'd need a very strong economy to fund multiple megastructures at a time without any production edicts, so I think it would still be pretty balanced.

 

[Lumanson]

Does anyone know why the Strategic Coordination Center is a giant space ship? Does it move around? I was expecting some kind of giant military base, possibly a replacement for a star base.

 

[TheDungen]

Is that a event horizon on the Interstellar Assembly? Shall I assume meetings take place in a time dilation field? Convenient when you need to negotiate for months to solve an ongoing crisis in a few days.

Can agrarian idyll have ecumenopolises and if so are their arcologies affected the same way as their city districts? If not then it would be really powerful for them, since they are good at producing the food the ecumenopolis needs while being otherwise bad at providing the housing that the ecumenopolis provides.

 

[ShakenBake]

Hmmm would you consider addying the possiblity for environmentalist empires to set parts of the ecumenopolises as natural reserves or finding a way to integrate them with the buildings? Like to preserve a bit of the ecosystem and be in line with their philosophy?

The very idea of an ecumenopolis seems incompatible with environmentalism. If anything, it would make more sense for environmentalists to simply be prevented from making an ecumenopolis (not that I think they should be).

However, it would be neat if environmentalists could get something in exchange for leaving nature undisturbed. The planetary decision system seems like a good way to do this. Maybe a planetary decision for environmentalists could add permanent tile blockers that generate unity, or it could reduce the number of districts that can be used on a planet in exchange for a production bonus.

 

[Zeelilus]

I don't understand how Megastructures is any more of a pick in 2.2 than it is now. You're still going to have to more or less rush it just to get a single one in time to be of any strategic value. Unless the new structures build themselves in a fraction of the time as ringworlds/dyson spheres/science nexus' currently do, your game is gonna be won or lost before you can get 2-3, let alone anywhere near all of them.

Only one I'm worried about is depending on the economy or build costs, it seems like it might be more valuable to build the +Mineral megastructure and sell them on the market for energy, rather than build a Dyson sphere.
Also agree that the +relation from the one will come too late game to matter, but the +migration from it would probably still be useful as habitats/ringworlds/city planets would still be coming online into lategame I imagine. I'll probably build it a few times for the RP of it as it seems fitting for quite a few of my custom empires.

 

[Lanrete]

The very idea of an ecumenopolis seems incompatible with environmentalism. If anything, it would make more sense for environmentalists to simply be prevented from making an ecumenopolis (not that I think they should be).

However, it would be neat if environmentalists could get something in exchange for leaving nature undisturbed. The planetary decision system seems like a good way to do this. Maybe a planetary decision for environmentalists could add permanent tile blockers that generate unity, or it could reduce the number of districts that can be used on a planet in exchange for a production bonus.

Why should there be smth for the envir? Not using resources and space, only because "mother nature muh motherly and so muh more important than us", is not a pragmatic and logical choice. It is more of an RP decision, not an optimal gameplay one, and the fact, that it has some bonuses already is a bit unrealistic. Self-limitations (in the context of limiting "progress" and expansion) should not be rewarded at all, me thinks, and instead, should be a conscious "I sacrifice stuff and get nothing in return" decision.

 

[Sifer2]

Nice to have it finally cleared up which structure is the Intersteller Assembly, and which is the Mega Art Installation. Now is probably a good time to point out the fact we couldn't immediately tell what they were means the art for them is really bad. I swear it's like they were both originally designed to do something else but got repurposed. If you had not told me what they were. And just had me guess after seeing a picture of them. I would think the Art Installation was some kind of super Foundry that produces a lot of Alloys. And the Assembly was some sort of teleporter that connects all your trade routes.

 

[Akkadian]

The armored hull of the Strategic Coordination Center houses the cream of our military command, who devote their time to strategy and planning in this state-of-the-art facility. It has 3 levels and provide the following effects:
Naval Capacity: 75/150/225
Starbase Capacity: 5/10/15
Defense Platforms: 8/16/24
Sublight Speed: 5%/10%/15%

In a typical game I would have 5-10 planets, and 30-50 starbases! Planets are at least different/unique. Starbase are mostly the same, and extremely tedious.

I was really hoping that this 2.2 update was aimed at reducing repetitive micro-management, but here you're adding:

- 5-15 more starbase to micro-manage!
- 8-24 more clicks per starbase (depending on def platform size)
- All which need to be upgraded every time I research a new tech

If you don't overhaul starbase then please change these bonuses to something like:

Naval Capacity: 75/150/225
Starbase HP/Trade Value: 15%/30%/45%
Defense Platforms Damage Bonus: 15%/30%/45%
Sublight Speed: 5%/10%/15%

 

[Highlordelliot]

Yes, machine worlds have new mechanics in 2.2. Hive Minds may get some sort of hive world, not yet decided.

Maybe hive minds could have ecumenopolis swapped out and get a special ability with bio ascension to make perfect genetically engineered hive worlds that are adapted perfectly to their needs. This enabling maximum efficiency and boosting their development.

 

[ShakenBake]

Why should there be smth for the envir? Not using resources and space, only because "mother nature muh motherly and so muh more important than us", is not a pragmatic and logical choice. It is more of an RP decision, not an optimal gameplay one, and the fact, that it has some bonuses already is a bit unrealistic. Self-limitations should not be rewarded at all, me thinks, and instead, should be a conscious "I sacrifice stuff and get nothing in return" decision.

I don't think environmentalism can't be logical and pragmatic, and I certainly don't think it's true that environmentalism means sacrificing land and resources and getting nothing in return.

There are a lot of possibilities. Environmentalists could have recycling centers, increased habitability (reflecting health benefits of dramatically reduced air pollution and safer water), maybe increased leader lifespans, etc.

Resources aren't finite in Stellaris, so that benefit can't be modeled, but even so an environmentalist empire should have extremely efficient recycling tech and shouldn't need to mine as many resources, should benefit from a healthier environment to live in, should have happier populations due to easy access to outdoor recreation, and should have more opportunities for biological research. Any of these benefits could be modeled in the game, and could be balanced by reduced capability to develop a planet.

The civics that change gameplay significantly are much more interesting than straight number buffs and there is no reason why environmentalist couldn't be one of these.

 

[TurtleShroom]

> Discover the Worm
> Worship the Worm
> Embrace the Worm
> Non-gas giants are now Tomb Worlds
> Gain Ecumenopolois Ascension Perk
> Engineer every Tomb World in your home solar system into an Ecumenopolois
> ???
> PROFIT

 

[Highlordelliot]

Anyone else think the art megastructure would look better by taking ques from the fallen empire ship and station design aesthetics?

 

[J Mac]

Will it be possible to mod the appearance of Megastructures so that they appear different for each of the Ship Appearances?

 

[Lanrete]

I.

>I don't think environmentalism can't be logical and pragmatic, and I certainly don't think it's true that environmentalism means sacrificing land and resources and getting nothing in return.

But it is not logical and pragmatic, and it means sacrificing stuff, only to save 'matha nature', regardless of what you think. Even those parts of environmentalism that are claimed to be "for the benefit of the people" are just the same deep environmentalism, masked.

>There are a lot of possibilities. Environmentalists could have recycling centers, increased habitability (reflecting health benefits of dramatically reduced air pollution and safer water), maybe increased leader lifespans, etc.

Ehm, nope. Nature by definition is not 100% habitable. There is bad weather, toxins, dangerous beasts, etc. Nature can't support extremely large amounts of population. Protecting nature and populating everything- is exclusive. Changing nature by killing all dangerous predators instead of ignoring all the murdered pops as "irrelevant", upgrading the weather, replacing the "low-02-generating" rainforests that can support only 1trl pops with powerfull air-factories that are able to support 99999 trl pops, etc etc- is not environmenalist.


>Resources aren't finite in Stellaris, so that benefit can't be modeled,

Resources aren't finite in real world too. Most of them don't get vapourized after getting used, and if we use up all the ore- we can invent some ne material from pressed earth or smth, for example. All matter is a resource pile, but even so an environmentalist empire should have extremely efficient recycling tech and shouldn't need to mine as many resources, should benefit from a healthier environment to live in, should have happier populations due to easy access to outdoor recreation, and should have more opportunities for biological research. Any of these benefits could be modeled in the game, and could be balanced by reduced capability to develop a planet.

 

[Lanrete]

In a typical game I would have 5-10 planets, and 30-50 starbases! Planets are at least different/unique. Starbase are mostly the same, and extremely tedious.

I was really hoping that this 2.2 update was aimed at reducing repetitive micro-management, but here you're adding:

- 5-15 more starbase to micro-manage!
- 8-24 more clicks per starbase (depending on def platform size)
- All which need to be upgraded every time I research a new tech

If you don't overhaul starbase then please change these bonuses to something like:

Naval Capacity: 75/150/225
Starbase HP/Trade Value: 15%/30%/45%
Defense Platforms Damage Bonus: 15%/30%/45%
Sublight Speed: 5%/10%/15%

>5-10 planets

Are you playing for like 20 years each "typical game" or are you describing your early-early game stage? For even the most mediocre AI empire in my games manages to get 20+ planets, and my FP axis-like neighbouring buddies have hundreds of planets.