Stellaris Dev Diary #132 - Ecumenopolis and Megastructures

[skytta]

Whats wrong with it being gated behind a perk?

Nothing.
In the last big DLC we got Titans and Ion Cannons and they diden't walled them behind AP, and Ecunompolies are in my opinion something similar in this DLC.
And I did Play with Gaia World creation a few times and it got pretty fast out of hand, Gaia Wold number wise. So So I fear there is the nead of some other form of cap besides AP or in stead of.

 

[Calvax]

Nothing.
In the last big DLC we got Titans and Ion Cannons and they diden't walled them behind AP, and Ecunompolies are in my opinion something similar in this DLC.

Collosus are AP locked and they're more of a fit analogy for Ecumenopoli.

 

[Cript]

I don't think you really need to worry about Ecumenopolis being as spammable as gaia worlds are, after all, a gaia world is simply an added bonus on top of a normal world, as a pure bonus it makes sense that you'd want as much as possible and that the more you make the easier it is to make more. Ecumenopolis on the other hand aren't a pure bonus. They'll have hundreds of pop and jobs and be a powerful piece of the economy of your empire, but have zero ability to make their own raw resources to supply all that population and those jobs. You'll need tons of agri worlds and mining worlds exporting their raw resources to the Ecumenopolis to keep it going, so you can't just turn every world into an Ecumenopolis otherwise you'll have no raw resource production... It's possible that an ecumenopolis might be able to turn enough of a profit on the galactic market to support itself, we'll have to see the exsact mechanics of how the market works before we'll know... But if that's possible for multiple ones without any supporting worlds of their own, I think we could safely say the market mechanics are completely broken.

 

[James Fire]

Nothing.

So you have no problem with this. Got it.

So why did you comment again?

 

[James Fire]

Titans are AP locked and they're more of a fit analogy for Ecumenopoli.

What AP?

 

[James Fire]

Did you read of any kind of limitation of this featur in the Dev Diary besides the AP and PoP resource consumtion. I didn't. I wanted only to present an alternativ to limiting ecumenopolies on a Galaxy wide scale without limiting this kind of featur to only the players who picked the AP.
When you don't think it is a viable option, shur bring me an counterargument to discredit my proposial. But with argument that meakes play mechanicle sense.

No. But that doesn't mean that it can't happen. So I'll ask again.

Why does it being behind an AP mean it can't also have other limitations?

 

[Calvax]

What AP?

I meant to type “colossi” rather than Titan.

 

[Lanrete]

What's your point here? What is the endgoal of this argument you're having?

My point here is: we can generate air.
And my point was: to answer the person who wrote me.

No, it doesn't. It is not a natural progression for every planet to become an ecumenopolis.

Just because you say so- doesn't make it so. We can have every planet as an ecumenopolis, if we have enough food-synthesizers/GMO-farms/hydroponics and air-generators/algae-yards in them

Whats wrong with it being gated behind a perk?

Maybe the fact, that you don't have to have some supertech, to build an especially large city?

 

[grommile]

Maybe the fact, that you don't have to have some supertech, to build an especially large city?

But you do need to have a particular societal outlook to think that literally turning an entire planet into a city is a good idea.

 

[Arkangilos]

Just because you say so- doesn't make it so. We can have every planet as an ecumenopolis, if we have enough food-synthesizers/GMO-farms/hydroponics and air-generators/algae-yards in them

What? No one said you couldn't. They said that planets don't naturally become ecumenopoli, oceans and mountains don't just naturally disappear as populations grow, they have to be willfully moved.

Also you do know you do have to research a tech for it, right?

 

[Lanrete]

But you do need to have a particular societal outlook to think that literally turning an entire planet into a city is a good idea.

Pragmatism(or any other sort of outlook without nature-worship)?

 

[Lanrete]

What? No one said you couldn't. They said that planets don't naturally become ecumenopoli, oceans and mountains don't just naturally disappear as populations grow, they have to be willfully moved.

Also you do know you do have to research a tech for it, right?

A city doesn't just pop-up "naturally". But if we call normal city mechanics "natural"- terraforming is a part of a natural city development, and growing to planet-scale is part of a cities evolution- not a necessary revolution, not all cities are just built by "Lets have a large, really large from the start city here. Lets move lots of pops here by force/ entice them with money or words... Ok. How we will name it? Alexandria-75/Sankt-Petersburg/Dubai", and not all ecumenopolisis are built this way too.

 

[Pointyearedgit]

A city doesn't just pop-up "naturally". But if we call normal city mechanics "natural"- terraforming is a part of a natural city development, and growing to planet-scale is part of a cities evolution- not a necessary revolution, not all cities are just built by "Lets have a large, really large from the start city here. Lets move lots of pops here by force/ entice them with money or words... Ok. How we will name it? Alexandria-75/Sankt-Petersburg/Dubai", and not all ecumenopolisis are built this way too.

Look man, is the paywall the problem for you or the AP lock?

The paywall is from the art and development time for a brand new feature.

The AP is balance, same as colossus. You can get mods to give you more AP slots, or just mod the ecumenopolis in as a tech.

The fluff is that you build an entirely new city structure across the planet. And there are no ecumenopoli on earth, and there could be only one if there was! You are talking about a megalopolis, and for all we know in stellaris, a planet full of city districts is just a bunch of disconnected megalopoli.

 

[Magnavier]

In a earlier dev diary (the one about trade routes) it has been mentioned that pirates will be able to pillage trade routes. In continuity to that my question is: will normal empires be able to raid other empires trade routes? Example: I would raid the trade routes of my unfriendly neighbor.
If this is not a thing, I think that would be a nice functionality.

 

[Arkangilos]

A city doesn't just pop-up "naturally". But if we call normal city mechanics "natural"- terraforming is a part of a natural city development, and growing to planet-scale is part of a cities evolution- not a necessary revolution, not all cities are just built by "Lets have a large, really large from the start city here. Lets move lots of pops here by force/ entice them with money or words... Ok. How we will name it? Alexandria-75/Sankt-Petersburg/Dubai", and not all ecumenopolisis are built this way too.

I don't know if you know this, but when most civilizations we encounter run into water, they dont build the city into the water. Instead they find other, empty land they can fill. Whether on a different landmass or on the same, it doesn't matter. Ecumenopoli instead say, "lets drain the ocean and flatten the mountain!"

That's not the organic or natural development that you can literally see in cities.

Also, I don't see how you can say draining entire oceans is pragmatic.

 

[Orphalesion]

I agree that an Ecumenopolis can feasibly be a natural end result of a planet being increasingly urbanized.

However, even in the most vague of universes, a lot of high end technologies have to work together to work together for this Ecumenopolis to work.

If you don't have the technology to turn the entire surface of a planet into a steady foundation for your planet-wide city, then no urban sprawl will ever produce it.

And imho that Ascension Perk symbolizes attaining all these technologies in a similar manner as World Shaper symbolizes attaining the technologies needed to create Gaia Worlds, Galactic Wodners symbolizes the technologies needed to create Ringworlds/Dyson Spheres etc. etc. etc.

So I think the Ecumenopolis being an AP is perfectly fine.

 

[Doctor Krain]

Yes, machine worlds have new mechanics in 2.2. Hive Minds may get some sort of hive world, not yet decided.

Why can't Organic Hive Minds have Ecumenopolis planets? I mean, they're just giantic hive-like cities, surely Hive Mind races would be better at building these than others?

 

[skytta]

So you have no problem with this. Got it.

So why did you comment again?

Yea exactly what I said. "Sarcasm "

 

[James Fire]

My point here is: we can generate air.
And my point was: to answer the person who wrote me.


Just because you say so- doesn't make it so. We can have every planet as an ecumenopolis, if we have enough food-synthesizers/GMO-farms/hydroponics and air-generators/algae-yards in them


Maybe the fact, that you don't have to have some supertech, to build an especially large city?

And then it turned into an argument. Yiu answered the person, and then kept going. What was the point of that?

Oh, well, you see, I'm not the only one that says so. I never said you couldn't do that, so not sure why you brought it up.

You're right. You dont need the same tech for an ecumenopolis for just large cities. Because an ecumenopolis is beyond a large city.

 

[Verx90]

I don't think you really need to worry about Ecumenopolis being as spammable as gaia worlds are, after all, a gaia world is simply an added bonus on top of a normal world, as a pure bonus it makes sense that you'd want as much as possible and that the more you make the easier it is to make more. Ecumenopolis on the other hand aren't a pure bonus. They'll have hundreds of pop and jobs and be a powerful piece of the economy of your empire, but have zero ability to make their own raw resources to supply all that population and those jobs. You'll need tons of agri worlds and mining worlds exporting their raw resources to the Ecumenopolis to keep it going, so you can't just turn every world into an Ecumenopolis otherwise you'll have no raw resource production... It's possible that an ecumenopolis might be able to turn enough of a profit on the galactic market to support itself, we'll have to see the exsact mechanics of how the market works before we'll know... But if that's possible for multiple ones without any supporting worlds of their own, I think we could safely say the market mechanics are completely broken.

fun part is, they combo . gaia world are best for raw materials, they give bonus and seems to have alot of agri possibilities , ecumenopolis are for specilized resource and trade power . you want them both if you CAN ofc ; can't see someone realy spamming that in midgames.