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Stellaris Dev Diary #142 - Sectors

Hello everyone!

Today we’re back with a dev diary and we want to take the opportunity to be more open with how we will attempt to tackle one of our more difficult systems – the sector system. The sector system was originally added to help players manage their planets, so that you would not need to micromanage everything once your empire gets large. We’ve often felt sectors are in a bit of an awkward place between different playstyles and what they actually should do for the player. Sectors have gone through a couple of different iterations, but never felt quite right.

I will start by outlining some of the goals with the (new) system and problems with the old one. This probably doesn’t include every concern for every player who ever used sectors, but it should cover some of the larger things. If you have something to add, we certainly want to hear about it!

The goal
  • Sectors should help to alleviate the player’s need to micromanage everything
  • Sectors should feel like a more unique part of the player’s empire
Problems
  • Sector geography can feel wrong
  • There are too many sectors in late-game
  • Wars and rebellions can mess up sectors
  • Player has to micro the sector economy
  • No manual control of sector area
  • Sectors don’t manage space stations
  • No “sector capitals”
I CANNOT PROMISE THAT ALL THESE CHANGES WILL HAPPEN, OR THAT THEY WILL APPEAR IN THE SAME UPDATE.

Sector types

The Core sector will be the sector that is formed around your homeworld and any system within range. A regular sector is formed around a Sector Capital, which you will be able to assign. It will also include all systems within range. Any system or planet not within a sector will be considered to belong to “Frontier Space”.

We are looking into also having different sector types, or sector policies, in which you could have different settings for sectors. Potentially, a sector could perhaps adjust its range in inverse relation to something else, like Administrative Capacity. Occupation Zones might also be a valid sector type, to make it easier to manage conquered territory.

Sector range simply means all systems within X jumps from the sector capital.

Sector budget
Players will have the ability to give resources to a shared sector pool, both as one-off grants and as monthly subsidies. This will convert minerals/energy into a sector budget, like it currently does. The new thing being automated monthly subsidies and a shared pool. It will still be possible to give a specific sector grants. Sectors will first attempt to use resources from its own pool, then from the shared pool.

Players will also be able to set planet automation to on/off. Planets in sectors will have automation turned On by default. This means you should be able to turn off automation for a specific planet in your sector, which you may sometimes want to do.

Sectors can have a sector focus, similar to how they do now in 2.2. The automatic control of planets should take sector focus and planet designation in consideration.

Sector geography
The current plan is to have systems be automatically added to a sector within range. If a system could belong to two different sectors, it should be possible to nudge them to decide which sector they belong to. This important for players being able to set a sector geography that looks good to them in their game.

Moving sector capital will also redraw the sector, and could potentially remove or add new systems to it. You cannot add systems to a sector if they are outside its range. Systems must also maintain cohesion to a sector, so it's not possible to cut off parts of a sector.

Planet designations
We really like the planet designations, i.e. “Mining World, Agri World, Forge World”, but we also want the player to have more control over them. We want to add the ability to manually set a planet designation, in addition to the automatic setting. If you designate a planet to be a Mining World, it should perhaps also be quicker to build mining districts there. It should generally feel cooler to colonize a world, and based on its features, immediately be able to decide it should be an Agri World – and designate it accordingly!

We also hope this will make it easier for the AI to specialize their planets a bit more in certain cases.

Governors
Although governors will remain mostly the same as to how they are now, we will try to remake the governor traits to be a bit more generic and applicable to a sector as a whole, as opposed to being so planet-specific with their bonuses.

Space stations
We have discussed adding an auto-build function for construction ships, similar to auto-explore, which should hopefully solve this problem better.

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I CANNOT PROMISE THAT ALL THESE CHANGES WILL HAPPEN, OR THAT THEY WILL APPEAR IN THE SAME UPDATE.

Our goal is to be able to able to get as much of this done by the next update as possible, but I cannot promise what will get in when. This sector rework is fairly ambitious, so it might be deployed in sections over a few updates. I very much like the design though, and I think it's a good foundation to build upon.

Since the launch of 2.2 we've been a little quiet, with a focus on extensive post-launch support. Going forward however, I'd like to increase our interactions with you, our community. While we want to have a more open communication, we want to avoid over promising or disappointing you if ideas change radically.

This is also a good chance for you affect this great game, so I hope an open discussion will lead to some constructive exchanges.
 
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I like the idea of "Frontier Space." Will it impose certain modifiers on colonies in that area? eg., "Frontier" colonies could have increased immigration pull, Enforcers less efficient at fighting crime, can only build resource districts, buff to raw resource production but penalty to research and unity, etc. Would creating a new sector out of "Frontier Space" require an active choice and investment from the player?
 
Interesting.

Did you have a look at MOO3 macromanagement tools (Dev plans)? I've always found them very good once I had a large empire.

Could it be possible to have all the planet information on a single page?

Could you also skip the difference between explore and survey for the science ships?
 
PS honestly, I struggle to understand the entire concept of construction ships: you always build stuff at pre-defined places (except gateways), in perfect safety - why do you have to look for nearest free construction ship that takes space in outliner and order it around, instead of ordering construction of whatever stuff you need, letting empire take care of it?

Funnily, enough, having made that post about the starbases (and then realised people were having basiclly the same dicussion on planets) this ocurred to me as well.

Not something you could do without a fairly major feature change, but I could see an argument to abstracting all construction ships to a resource (a bit like convoys in HoI 4, maybe?) So that you just point to this bit here and say "I want a starbase there" and it gets added to what is essentially an empire-wide build queue...

Actually, you know, cribbing HoI4's construction system might be how you'd do it even better; rather than construction ships as a discrete entity, each one works like a civilian factory in HoI4; a set number can work on any project at once, and you just have an empire-wide build queue. You could have a toggle to say "automatically add mining/research stations to build queue when control of a new system is established" and then you'd just have to manage the priority of what your (abstracted) construction ships build first.

(Might even make it slightly easier for the AI, since it would only have to decide what needed to be built and not where to send a construction ship.)

That sounds like that would have to be one of those mechanics that would require being part of an expansion, in terms of work, though.


Interesting.

Did you have a look at MOO3 macromanagement tools? I've always found them very good once I had a large empire.

While a lot of people didn't like MoO3, I felt the one thing it did better than most other games was scale. I found that, after the first several worlds, you more or less HAD to just turn it over to automation, since even just managing the military build queue of hundreds of planets made you go spare. (I inistigated a rule that I would only use the top 50 planet's production, and then locked an empty queue!)

So yeah, a few cues from that might not hurt!
 
I like the idea of "Frontier Space." Will it impose certain modifiers on colonies in that area? eg., "Frontier" colonies could have increased immigration pull, Enforcers less efficient at fighting crime, can only build resource districts, buff to raw resource production but penalty to research and unity, etc. Would creating a new sector out of "Frontier Space" require an active choice and investment from the player?
Ditto. This would be very interesting to know about. And would there be benefits to having a colony in frontier space, or is it something to avoid unless you really need/want the planet?
 
Sectors would not have their own economy, so things would affect you directly. The budget would simply assign them resources to build with.


It would of course be cool, but I think we're a couple of steps away from that.

I would like to know what the reasoning behind removing sector economy is. I am guessing it might be the impossibility of having a sector balance its own economy (eg. not enough minerals, too much energy for sectors with only reactor planets).

But I think the new internal market that was introduced solves this problem; one could have sectors actively take part in the internal economy by buying resources that they underproduce, and maybe sell ones that they lack. Of course this could co-exist with assigning manual subsidies to sectors, *BUT*:

Imagine a sector produces a lot of energy, but does not produce the consumer goods to keep its population from going on strike; they would buy their monthly deficit of consumer goods, making the internal market an actual gameplay element instead of just a failsave if you missing micromanaging your planets.

This would also make it possible to reduce sector subsidies to energy (money) only, which would then let them buy the goods as needed (which you or other sectors might also be selling).

This would make sectors able to much more easily develop even with an unbalanced economy and would make internal trading much more interesting, since it seems to just change in price arbitrarily right now.
 
Sector geografy is a problem that i dont have any good ideas, but automtization of resource pool would be more than good change, also resource focus should be put on planet, not whole sector.
 
First, I need to admit that I have a borderline psychotic hatred of the sector system. I have only had bad experiences with them since they were first introduced and my perception of them is no longer a fair one. With that said, I am going to try to be as objective as possible and look at what sectors could be rather than at what they are.

I think the biggest hurdle to sectors right now is the AI. It just isn't very good at handling its economy and to be honest, I do not have enough confidence in it at this moment to entrust any part of my empire to its care. To be fair, the AI has improved drastically since 2.2.6. I was actually surprised at how much better the AI became from one single update, but it's not quite "there" yet.

I like the idea of a unified "sector currency." It circumvents the need to make sure every sector has ever last mineral they need. This should prevent the need to micromanage multiple economies. Going from there, it would be helpful to specialize sectors down to the planet rather than just the sector as a whole. I believe it was stated earlier in this thread that that is the goal, so I'm glad to hear that it's in the works.

I'm a bit confused on sector geography. It sounds like it could be even more chaotic than it currently is, especially if you lose a sector capitol in a war. Perhaps a hybrid system would be a good approach? Sectors would still have a "range" but the player could add/remove systems from the sector, either by giving them to another adjacent sector or giving them up to the "frontier" sector, in the same way we could pre 2.2.

The coming changes to governors concerns me. While it is true that some governor traits are very specific to a particular kind of planet/play style, making their traits even more generic will only make governors even more forgettable than they already are. If governors didn't add a resource production bonus based on their level, I wouldn't use them at all. Rather than making them more generic, why not make the governors more meaningful? What I'm trying to say is that I am only marginally aware that governors even exist, unlike admiral and scientists, who have more meaningful interactions with my empire. I suppose the best way to make governors more meaningful is to add internal politicals, but that would be something best left for the theoretical diplomacy update.

Do you feel like you need to be able to set the cap yourself, or would a default cap of 10k work?

Why not both? Set the default cap at 10k but allow the player to adjust it as they see fit.
 
Instead of having the game decide where what buildings and districts to put in, why not just allow the player to designate planet template(s) and set rules for how often the AI should build? That would be more flexible of a system for when the meta changes how useful certain setups are. Once the player sets up a template, all they have to do is select the type of planet they want to make and the AI would build it up on the schedule set by the player on certain triggers (ie. pop unemployment, low basic resources, low amenities, etc.)
 
Would it be possible to make it so that if a sector would go negative resources due to upkeep, that instead they draw from the player's resource pool instead of sitting at 0 resources and giving resource collection penalties to all planets in the sector like they did pre-2.2?
Probably that should be set as a policy so that economic crashes can be localized vs empire-wide.

And, I might be way wrong, but when he said "Frontier Space", am I the only one who assumed he meant the area of the empire map without a colonized system (ie: the parts of your empire that aren't part of any particular sector)?

Everyone is jumping all over the "Frontier Space" designation like it's "Firefly" and I'm sitting here thinking, "isn't that the lighter blue area on the map?"
 
I don't want to automate the process of building Outposts. I see expanding as being a player choice.

Just being able to properly queue up consecutive outposts with the correct influence costs and also order construction ships to build all the space stations in a system before the outpost is built (perhaps a "develop system" order, analogous to "survey system" for science ships) would help a lot, and not remove player choice any more than "survey system" removes the choice of which planets to survey first in a system.
 
Sector range simply means all systems within X jumps from the sector capital.
Please, consider other ways to assign systems to a sector or making this range dynamic. The current map generator produces strongly uneven distribution of habitable planets which leads to sectors with wildly varying number of planets.
 
Loving the idea for more automation of sectors, I liked the taxing system where you took some resources from a sector and they used the rest to build themselves from earlier versions of the game but i guess the shared pool with monthly inputs would achieve the same thing. would be cool if there could be both
 
Please, consider other ways to assign systems to a sector or making this range dynamic. The current map generator produces strongly uneven distribution of habitable planets which leads to sectors with wildly varying number of planets.
Habitable systems is probably a good sector size dynamic, and having a tech that increases sector size added back into the game would be spiffy.
 
Habitable systems is probably a good sector size dynamic, and having a tech that increases sector size added back into the game would be spiffy.
I honestly don't care about the details, but as of now a system with 3 habitable planets and 8 habitats (and such systems are produced by current generator) might have more colonies than a sector with 3-jump range and one governor can rule both 2-colonies and 50-colonies sectors with same easy.
This isn't right.
 
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Some suggestions:

Sector types
I like the concept, but I would suggest changing the naming of unassigned systems from 'frontier system' to Territory, to be more accurate to actual (human) administrative terminology. Under 'Frontier', I imagine territory currently undergoing colonization, which is not necessarily the same as a sectorless system. Instead, i would use frontier as its own sector type, which might lower administrative costs in exchange for lowering general ressource output, aiding in that initial stage of colonial expansion.

Sector budget
Agree with most points made, but i dont agree with having planetary automation set to ON by default, as I fear that this will simply result in planets disappearing into the administrative void, never to be heard of again, which is a problem the original sector system already suffered from.

Sector Geography
I still don't like having my planets forcibly auto-assigned. It is often a hinderance for both regular gameplay and RP, and the 'distance from capital' model runs contrary to every actual administrative system i've ever heard of. I have no issue with the concept of sector capitals, or regulating their size somehow, but the method of merely flipping systems between the sectors you're allowed to flip between sounds both finnicky and arbitrary. Apart from being able to design your own sectors (somewhat more) freely, I also think you could (or maybe even should) have the possible size of a sector be dependent upon sector type, e.g. having one big frontier / occupation zone, while creating smaller, more specialized subdivisions the closer you get to your economic centres.

Governors, Planet designations and Space Stations i don't have anything to add to.

Sorry for the wall of text, but I hope it's worthy of consideration
 
Manually assigning sector capitals and by default adding planets automatically
with the option to decide everything manually
sounds like a streamlined approach.
Thank you.

I am unsure whether assigning a planet into a sector should come with a cost or grant a bonus. Sectors and associated automation are a help or a hindrance depending on player micro speed, familiarity with the game, and competence of the AI.

I feel they should give a tiny reduction to Administrative Capacity usage just to incentivize us to try them out. From their inception I've always had to periodically audit my sectors and fix their mistakes. Now I don't bother to show them in the outliner and handle all governance manually. Every conquered world means a thorough inspection with overhauls likely.

Although, to be fair, in my latest game I dumped a ton of systems off to vassals, and I admit it was a relief to not have to think about each of those individual planets.

P.S. :
Space stations
We have discussed adding an auto-build function for construction ships, similar to auto-explore, which should hopefully solve this problem better.
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/suggestion-request-dear-devs-pls-return-add_building_construction-command.1134502/
 
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When making changes to the traits of governors to be less planet specific, could planet governors be separated from the sector governor, and have both expanded on what they are beyond just pick a guy with decent traits? Have it more involved in what your empires ethics and civics are.

So the secotor governor oversees a sector of 10 systems, within that there each of the 10 planet systems have their own planet Governor.
This could be expanded further with more politics, with planet governors possibly being assigned based on the empires ethics and civics and the planets ethics.
Examples
an authroitarian Empires can have hereditary Planet Governors.
Egalitarian Empire has governors asigned based on planet "elections"
Militarist can put generals or admirals as governors.
Etc..
As it is now politics are very basic in the game, more can be tied into the faction system, and perhaps leading to actual civil wars and revolts.
Sorry if its incoherent and rambling, just my thoughts while at work.