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Stellaris Dev Diary #142 - Sectors

Hello everyone!

Today we’re back with a dev diary and we want to take the opportunity to be more open with how we will attempt to tackle one of our more difficult systems – the sector system. The sector system was originally added to help players manage their planets, so that you would not need to micromanage everything once your empire gets large. We’ve often felt sectors are in a bit of an awkward place between different playstyles and what they actually should do for the player. Sectors have gone through a couple of different iterations, but never felt quite right.

I will start by outlining some of the goals with the (new) system and problems with the old one. This probably doesn’t include every concern for every player who ever used sectors, but it should cover some of the larger things. If you have something to add, we certainly want to hear about it!

The goal
  • Sectors should help to alleviate the player’s need to micromanage everything
  • Sectors should feel like a more unique part of the player’s empire
Problems
  • Sector geography can feel wrong
  • There are too many sectors in late-game
  • Wars and rebellions can mess up sectors
  • Player has to micro the sector economy
  • No manual control of sector area
  • Sectors don’t manage space stations
  • No “sector capitals”
I CANNOT PROMISE THAT ALL THESE CHANGES WILL HAPPEN, OR THAT THEY WILL APPEAR IN THE SAME UPDATE.

Sector types

The Core sector will be the sector that is formed around your homeworld and any system within range. A regular sector is formed around a Sector Capital, which you will be able to assign. It will also include all systems within range. Any system or planet not within a sector will be considered to belong to “Frontier Space”.

We are looking into also having different sector types, or sector policies, in which you could have different settings for sectors. Potentially, a sector could perhaps adjust its range in inverse relation to something else, like Administrative Capacity. Occupation Zones might also be a valid sector type, to make it easier to manage conquered territory.

Sector range simply means all systems within X jumps from the sector capital.

Sector budget
Players will have the ability to give resources to a shared sector pool, both as one-off grants and as monthly subsidies. This will convert minerals/energy into a sector budget, like it currently does. The new thing being automated monthly subsidies and a shared pool. It will still be possible to give a specific sector grants. Sectors will first attempt to use resources from its own pool, then from the shared pool.

Players will also be able to set planet automation to on/off. Planets in sectors will have automation turned On by default. This means you should be able to turn off automation for a specific planet in your sector, which you may sometimes want to do.

Sectors can have a sector focus, similar to how they do now in 2.2. The automatic control of planets should take sector focus and planet designation in consideration.

Sector geography
The current plan is to have systems be automatically added to a sector within range. If a system could belong to two different sectors, it should be possible to nudge them to decide which sector they belong to. This important for players being able to set a sector geography that looks good to them in their game.

Moving sector capital will also redraw the sector, and could potentially remove or add new systems to it. You cannot add systems to a sector if they are outside its range. Systems must also maintain cohesion to a sector, so it's not possible to cut off parts of a sector.

Planet designations
We really like the planet designations, i.e. “Mining World, Agri World, Forge World”, but we also want the player to have more control over them. We want to add the ability to manually set a planet designation, in addition to the automatic setting. If you designate a planet to be a Mining World, it should perhaps also be quicker to build mining districts there. It should generally feel cooler to colonize a world, and based on its features, immediately be able to decide it should be an Agri World – and designate it accordingly!

We also hope this will make it easier for the AI to specialize their planets a bit more in certain cases.

Governors
Although governors will remain mostly the same as to how they are now, we will try to remake the governor traits to be a bit more generic and applicable to a sector as a whole, as opposed to being so planet-specific with their bonuses.

Space stations
We have discussed adding an auto-build function for construction ships, similar to auto-explore, which should hopefully solve this problem better.

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I CANNOT PROMISE THAT ALL THESE CHANGES WILL HAPPEN, OR THAT THEY WILL APPEAR IN THE SAME UPDATE.

Our goal is to be able to able to get as much of this done by the next update as possible, but I cannot promise what will get in when. This sector rework is fairly ambitious, so it might be deployed in sections over a few updates. I very much like the design though, and I think it's a good foundation to build upon.

Since the launch of 2.2 we've been a little quiet, with a focus on extensive post-launch support. Going forward however, I'd like to increase our interactions with you, our community. While we want to have a more open communication, we want to avoid over promising or disappointing you if ideas change radically.

This is also a good chance for you affect this great game, so I hope an open discussion will lead to some constructive exchanges.
 
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Sector types
The Core sector will be the sector that is formed around your homeworld and any system within range. A regular sector is formed around a Sector Capital, which you will be able to assign. It will also include all systems within range. Any system or planet not within a sector will be considered to belong to “Frontier Space”.

so u dont plan to solve thousands of one-planet sectors problem. very bad

Im kinda hoping the "frontier space" can be auto managed or something, basically just like a sector. Then all those oddball would be 1 planet sectors can just be part of that.
 
What does having border policy set by sector really do?

If you don't want someone in your space, you don't want them in your space.

In most cases, if you're excluded from part of someone's space they're not going to want you in the rest of it.

On a relations based issue (for how upset the AI gets when you close your border to them), do you get the full "closed border" penalty if **any** of your space is closed to them, or is it proportionate? If it's proportionate how do you avoid expoits like closing only the sectors that are accessible to your neighbours and having the rest be *technically* open to them - even if inaccessible?

For example: you could be a xenophobe but you still need to trade so you allow others only into a "special economic zone" for trade. The galactic market could require local open borders.
 
For example: you could be a xenophobe but you still need to trade so you allow others only into a "special economic zone" for trade. The galactic market could require local open borders.
Local borders with who?
The galactic market is galactic - it's not really one nation rolling up to another with trade ships any more - and because it's a *galactic* trade there's nothing stopping your order being fulfilled by an enemy of yours via a third party. It's not direct trade (although certainly one of you having open borders could be a factor in direct trade), it's very much abstracted general trade.


Again though, I have to ask what the effects of "partially closed" borders on relations should be compared to "fully open" or "fully closed"?
 
I'm really exited for this update! I really appreciate all the work you guys are doing but if you could please make it to where sectors could build districts first would be great because mine after a while stop building districts completely, I haven't observed if they stop after a while (starting from once the sector is formed) or if it's tied to the game time.
 
I'm going to ask the question because the devs have put a ton of work into sectors and it's be something I've seen theorized elsewhere. Is there a long term goal of someone using districts to facilitate the actual game play and story? By this I mean eventually have them play a part in internal empire politics. For example: You have one sector that ends up being problematic because either that was a the sector set up for intergalactic trade, allowing the xeno scum in so that the galactic market would do trade, but ensure they were contained to a very small part of the empire. Then the sector gets fed up wit being under the thumb of xenophobic scum and rebel. Or the other fun one, maybe you add in a new neutral governor trait called dogmatic theologue (10% increased unity, but research takes 5-10% hit because scientists feel persecuted under such governors and if the empire has synthetics, any of those pops under such a governor would have a 5% reduced happiness). Anyways someone put such a governor in charge of a sector and the sector either rebels because it has a heavy number of synthetics and/or researchers or the governor goes on to start a cult.

I mean if that's the goal, I think it would be more beneficial to let the player base know that and then find a way to work on sectors and get feedback, but do it in a way that the player find less awful to deal with. I'll admit they aren't nearly as bad as trade, but I've only done solo games, so I have the time to micromanage and largely ignore them. I certainly see how they can be rather unfun in a multiplayer game.

Anyways, building worlds/colonies/planets really shouldn't be done the sector level. I'm a bit floored the devs are looking at planet setups in this manner because I doubt any player is going "well I have high mineral world & I do badly need more minerals, but since this is my agriculture sector. I'm going to attempt to specialize this world to agriculture, despite it only have three agriculture districts because this is the agriculture sector." For planet setups, the sector matters not to me, what matters to me is:

What size world is this?
How many districts of each type does it have?
Does it have any special features that skew it better to a specialization?
What do I need in the way of resources?
What do I want to do, if I'm not pressed for a particular resource?
Only time I care about location, is if the planet is in a choke point on or right next to the border. Then I go through all of those questions because even though it's in a good spot to be a fortress world, that might not be the best use of it.

In short, how the AI builds colonies should be decoupled from sectors. It should be developing colonies in a similar was as players would, which completely ignores sectors and focuses on the planets first individually and then on how they can be setup to aid in the empires goals.
 
One planet classification I'd like to see is in contrast to the Tech-World, the Shrine World/Culture World. A world that produces art and other forms of culture for export. In its religious incarnation, I think it makes a nice mirror to the Spiritualist/Materialist divide.
 
One planet classification I'd like to see is in contrast to the Tech-World, the Shrine World/Culture World. A world that produces art and other forms of culture for export. In its religious incarnation, I think it makes a nice mirror to the Spiritualist/Materialist divide.

Well there is already the Holy World mechanic. So it would probably need to be more a culture world that all empires use.
 
Can you please let us edit sectors again, I don't like how they are randomly generated and liked it better when you can choose which sector to put which planet in. This way I could only have like my best 3 core planets in one sector and all the other planets in a different sector that were just for production


Plus there is one problem I have with boarder friction where you ally has friction with you through wormholes and gateways
 
Local borders with who?
The galactic market is galactic - it's not really one nation rolling up to another with trade ships any more - and because it's a *galactic* trade there's nothing stopping your order being fulfilled by an enemy of yours via a third party. It's not direct trade (although certainly one of you having open borders could be a factor in direct trade), it's very much abstracted general trade.


Again though, I have to ask what the effects of "partially closed" borders on relations should be compared to "fully open" or "fully closed"?

I think it would make more sense to have the trade less abstracted. If I'm surrounded by fanatic xenophobes with closed borders, how do I access a galactic market based on the other side of said xenophobes? Currently by magic.

Opening a specific area to the outside benefits xenophobes (if they changed the way trade works) because they need the trade but they don't want to deal with the traders. This could be a faction issue that player's playing xenophobe would have to balance. The need for trade vs the need to keep "the xenos" out.

Also, if the price of getting the galactic market was opening borders and letting xenos in, xenophobes might decide they don't want the market in their space. Certain buildings (trade, art and science related ones) could maybe also be more effective with open borders, and some (military, enforcers) with closed borders.

Other uses for sector borders could include:
Allowing a neighbor to pass through a certain sector (as part of an agreement) so they can reach something beyond without having to let them in everywhere.
Locking down a sector to prevent an epidemic or rebellion spreading (if you could close off part of your empire from the rest)
Restricting military access to a certain part of your space if you want to prevent one of you neighbors from attacking another through your space, but you don't want to annoy them too much by outright banning them.
And I'm sure there are more uses I haven't thought of.
 

I disagree with your post not because of its content but because right now, sectors do not work on a few levels: wonky layout and no reliable automation.

Then you have a ton of people explaining ideas and plans, such as in your post, on how to make things more interesting but also more complicated (admittedly you are one of the lesser offender compared, say, to sectors being individual political entity). I agree it would be nice fluff but first, let's get the basics straight here.

What we need from the sectors rework asap is that they efficiently cut the amount of micro management starting mid game. The rest can wait later development.
 
Everything I want from sectors! Thank you!

To be more specific and nitpicky, it's a nice dream that sector politics could one day matter, but
1. The proposed system is all positive and no downsides compared to not having sectors, and
2. The proposed system sounds like a good groundwork to build sector politics atop of.
 
ive never been a big fan of sectors, the one feature i was hoping that would come back to remove micro is migration controls. always bugs me i have to tell every one to get a job when theres whole planets needing pops. i dont even care if it costs me to move them they should just seek out a job if there is one, anywhere.
 
Sectors are a great way to reduce micro, but:
1: Things will change due to wars and events, so the only way to keep players happy is to put them in control of which stars are in which sectors;
2: I would like to see a sector capital and allow the player to designate a future sector capital, either to move the capital--such as away from the war--or to split a sector; the AI would build administrative buildings if necessary;
3. Sector politics and events will eventually become unmanageable in a big galaxy--don't start down that road.

Thanks for the continuing work on Stellaris!
 
Random thoughts:
I don't understand why Xenophiles, or peaceful races, pay for alliances and gain from rivalries; phobes and warlike, I understand.

Actually, the whole influence system, though I understand the use in other titles, seems glued onto Stellaris with no gameplay benefit.

I'd really like to forget about the whole faction thing. Yes, local politics always exist, but why do I want to deal with it in a grand strategy game?
 
Random thoughts:
I don't understand why Xenophiles, or peaceful races, pay for alliances and gain from rivalries; phobes and warlike, I understand.
Game balance. If they gained from alliances (something they're very good at), their influence would be through the roof, which could make them overpowered, since you use influence to expand. Claiming systems, building outposts to take non-owned systems, and absorbing vassals (who will join based on power and relationship) all use influence. As well as this you can spend influence on useful edicts at both planetary and empire level.
Actually, the whole influence system, though I understand the use in other titles, seems glued onto Stellaris with no gameplay benefit.

I'd really like to forget about the whole faction thing. Yes, local politics always exist, but why do I want to deal with it in a grand strategy game?
It partially represents the support your people are giving to your government, and the momentum your government has available to expend on several fields.
Internal politics shouldn't be ignored in a GSG, since without the support of your people you should be at risk of collapse or falling behind other more popular regimes,
 
3. Sector politics and events will eventually become unmanageable in a big galaxy--don't start down that road.

That issue could be avoided, while still having sector events and politics, which would help with the mid game. The easy fix is to designate a cap on how many active sector events an empire can have going at anyone time, while also specify a setup that ensure it doesn't end up being nonstop for really small empires, that have limited themselves to a single sector.

That said, the first thing is, they really should offload the anti-micro management stuff off of sectors and into a setup that looks at colonized planets the way players look at planets.
 
Space stations
We have discussed adding an auto-build function for construction ships, similar to auto-explore, which should hopefully solve this problem better.
01. OK, but don't make the same mistake (like in the case of the auto-explore-function) to implement this auto-construct-one as a mid-/late-game-technology since both functions are QoL-features, so that they should be available right from the start ...
02. Honestly, I wouldn't mind, that you terminate the construction-ships alltogether since A. it's already possible to construct everything from the galaxy-/ or star-system-screen and B. outposts + (better) starbases could have "workbees" (Star-Trek-term) in them as an ingame-explanation why they're able to build everything within their respective star-systems ...
( The only "problem" is the construction of the (initial) outposts in the star-systems, but the science-ship could do that instead. ) ...

Governors
Although governors will remain mostly the same as to how they are now, we will try to remake the governor traits to be a bit more generic and applicable to a sector as a whole, as opposed to being so planet-specific with their bonuses.
It's not related to governor-leaders, but you should consider to do the exact opposite to the research-leaders since I've the opinion, that the 2 (generic) +5 / +10% research-speed-traits are superior to all the (specific) +15%-ones since the former ones are applied to all of the 12 ? research-sub-categories, whereas each of the latter ones is just applied to 1 of these 12 ? research-sub-categories, so long story short: Consider to terminate the 2 (generic) +5 / +10% research-speed-traits or to weaken them (accordingly) ...

Planet designations
We want to add the ability to manually set a planet designation,
Yes ...

Sector geography
The current plan is to have systems be automatically added to a sector within range. If a system could belong to two different sectors, it should be possible to nudge them to decide which sector they belong to. This important for players being able to set a sector geography that looks good to them in their game.

Moving sector capital will also redraw the sector, and could potentially remove or add new systems to it. You cannot add systems to a sector if they are outside its range. Systems must also maintain cohesion to a sector, so it's not possible to cut off parts of a sector.
I haven't really a better idea, but nevertheless, this sounds OK ...

Sector budget
The new thing being automated monthly subsidies and a shared pool.
This sounds OK, too ...

Sector budget
Sectors can have a sector focus, similar to how they do now in 2.2. The automatic control of planets should take sector focus and planet designation in consideration.
Honestly, you should consider to terminate the sector-focus since it wasn't actually demanded in the first place since a player like me has actually asked for a focus on the colony-level and as you've written it, we will finally get it, so that an additional sector-focus seems to be redundant and could cause rather "unnecessary" problems like what if the focus of several colonies within a sector contradicts with the sector-focus itself ? ...

Sector types
The Core sector will be the sector that is formed around your homeworld and any system within range. A regular sector is formed around a Sector Capital, which you will be able to assign. It will also include all systems within range. Any system or planet not within a sector will be considered to belong to “Frontier Space”.

We are looking into also having different sector types, or sector policies, in which you could have different settings for sectors. Potentially, a sector could perhaps adjust its range in inverse relation to something else, like Administrative Capacity. Occupation Zones might also be a valid sector type, to make it easier to manage conquered territory.

Sector range simply means all systems within X jumps from the sector capital.
This sounds OK, too.
 
Internal empire politics in Stellaris doesn't exist because there are no politicians to do it. Scientifics, governors, admirals and generals are just doing their jobs, that's all. Factions are producing some influence, nothing more. A politician, to play well his role, have to be, in some degree, independent from the player and to represent an entity, that can't be easily destroyed by the player, at least, it should depends on empire type. Governors are the best to fill this gap.

Controlling everything isn't fun, nothing can surprise you.
 
I simply fail to see why the sector assignment has to be automated... Why make it so difficult for no reason at all? You are pretty much creating your own issue here.

Someone might want to use the sector tool to assign a set of systems to be specialized. (like a science sector).
Someone might want to create a sector to then release it as a vassal. in this case one might want to avoid splitting his empire in 2 due to how hyperlanes decide the connections even though he might still have everything connected by gateway.

Someone might just want to ease the burden on his micro management.

You originally names this tool sectors which is fine.
But remember what real space sectors are supposed to be; This set of systems is to far away from this set of systems to be governed together and/or share resources efficiently due to distance and technological limitations. In this regard vassals represent the real idea of sectors much better.

What I'm trying to say is you named a real handy tool 'sectors' and it was handy and nice but now you try to better implement it to be actual sectors (I assume) and are ruining the perfectly good tool which you just so happened to name that way.

Perhaps you could do some renaming of tools/features and/or just stop and think for a second about what exactly it is you are trying to achieve.

I don't want to sound like a know-it-all as this may seem, but I'm trying to help here. I think something went wrong and I want to shed a light on what could be the issue here.

Thanks for reading,
Best of wishes.
 
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