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Stellaris Dev Diary #153 - Empire Sprawl & Administrative Capacity

Hello everyone!
We’re back with yet another dev diary to showcase some more fruits of summer experimentation. As with the previous dev diary, this involved a lot of work carried out during the summer and involves something I’ve wanted to explore for a good while now.

Today we’ll be talking about empire sprawl and administrative capacity. Do note that these changes are still fairly young in their development, so numbers and implementation details may not be representative of what it will look like in the end.

As a background, I can mention that I have a grander idea of where I want to take these mechanics, but it will not all happen at once. These changes aim to mimic state bureaucracy or overhead created by managing a large empire. As a minor aspect I also wanted you to be able to experience the funny absurdity of having a planet entirely dedicated to bureaucracy. The movie Brazil is a great source of inspiration here :)

Empire Sprawl
We wanted to expand on how empire sprawl is used, so that it becomes a more interesting mechanic. The largest change means that pops now increase empire sprawl. Most things in your empire should be increasing empire sprawl to various degrees, to represent the administrative burden they impose.

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Empire Sprawl can now be modified from its different sources, and as an example, the Courier Networks expansion tradition will now reduce empire sprawl caused directly by the number of planets and systems. As another example shows, the Harmony traditions finisher now reduces the total empire sprawl caused by all your pops.

We are also able to modify how much empire sprawl each pop contributes, and we’ve added a couple of new species traits that affect it. There are also machine variants of these traits.

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We have also increased the penalty for the amount of empire sprawl that exceeds your administrative capacity. The goal is not to make administrative a hard cap, but we want to make it necessary to invest some of your resources into increasing your administrative capacity. More on that later.

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The current plan is for machine empires to be more reliant on keeping their administrative capacity in line with their empire sprawl, so machine empires will suffer a much harsher penalty for exceeding their cap. We want machines to feel “centralized” and to perhaps favor a more “tall” playstyle.

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Hive Minds, on the other hand, should be more tolerant of a sprawling empire where unmanaged drones are able to fall back on their instincts whenever they cannot maintain a responsive connection to the hive mind. Therefore, hive minds should be more tolerant of a “wide” playstyle.

Administrative Capacity
With all these changes to empire sprawl, what about administrative capacity, I imagine you asking? Well, since empire sprawl is becoming an expanded concept, administrative capacity will naturally be a part of that. Increasing your administrative capacity will now be a part of planning your empire’s economy.

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For regular empires, the bureaucrat is a new job that increases your administrative capacity at the cost of consumer goods. This is also a specialist job, and has needs accordingly. Administrators are unchanged, and do not currently affect administrative capacity or bureaucrats.

For machine empires, the coordinators have changed roles from producing unity to now increasing administrative capacity instead, and they are more effective than bureaucrats. A new job called Evaluators now produce unity for machine empires.

Hive Minds currently have the hardest time to produce administrative capacity, but it has been added as a function of the synapse drone job.

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Certain sources that previously increased administrative capacity by a static amount now increase is by a percentage amount instead. This doesn’t affect the output of the jobs, but rather increases the total administrative capacity directly.

Summary
Personally I’m very excited for these changes and I’m very much looking forward to taking it to its next step in the future. I hope you enjoyed reading about the changes that will come to Stellaris sometime later this year. As always, we’ll be interested to hear your thoughts.

As mentioned in last week’s dev diary, the schedule for dev diaries will now be bi-weekly, so the next dev diary will be in another 2 weeks.
 
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Also can I mention how stupid it is that a pop type which can colonise anything is being forced to be tall, while the hive minds, which are inherently more limited in what they can colonise, are wide. This seems totally backwards.

I still contend wide vs tall aren't relevant to Stellaris either.
 
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Overall, I don't like this.

The % bonus to Admin Cap via the Ascension Perk is great, and gaining Admin Cap via Administrator jobs is great and long overdue. However, Empire Sprawl is a mechanic that should be reworked differently.

There is no reason why having more pops should result in more expensive technology. More pops should result in more expensive traditions, and the cost of some edicts should scale with number of pops. But throwing number of pops into the same salad bowl as everything else is a disappointing move.

Also, the special modifiers to MEs and Hive Minds are illogical. Drones literally die outside of their empire, why would "they fall back to their base instincts" give me cheaper tech?

There are lot of things to fix in this game. Horrendous, embarrassing endgame lag. Glaring imbalances. Lack of interesting gameplay for Hive Minds, Megacorps, and Spiritualists. Non-existent politics and diplomacy. To see that this slapped-together approach to an irrelevant question like "tall vs wide?" is what we get is hugely disappointing to me.

Mods remain the saving grace of this game.
 
Machines are a bit strange: they are op and super efficient, but they can't generate as many jobs per planet, since they don't have ecumenopolis, and some of their buildings are also very inefficient (maintenance depot and sentinel posts).
Machine worlds are very flexible and have nice bonuses, but they can't match the production of an ecumenopolis. Mining habitats on the other hand are great for machines, since they can build housing buildings on them.

Will you also address their ability to create jobs (maybe some special districts for hive and machine worlds?), in order to shift them towards tall play?
 
Hivemind Rulers need to be able to gain traits from level ups. And they need access to Agendas. Hiveminds are already with less options than other empires, and they are missing out on bonuses in multiple aspects of empire management.

In a prior version hivemind rulers could get traits. It was super frustrating to get halted development on your ruler. It would gain any exp anymore and you had no way to get rid of your hive ruler. Made me restart the game.
 
So I can finally build a world that is completely filled with Bureaucrats. How could we even exists without an expanding Bureaucracy to fill the needs of our expanding Bureaucracy. Greetings from Germany
 
With Pops affecting Sprawl, we're back to "Tall" meaning "less productive".
The word "back" in this sentence (falsely) implies that the situation has at some point been otherwise. It's ridiculous that the tall/wide dichotomy is still being applied to Stellaris, a game which has consistently favored aggressive and rampant expansion.
 
I agree that these changes make sense. All of them. However, I fear that this will further impede tall play. If wide empires can keep under their admin limit by building offices, then that effectively removes the one advantage that tall empires have. Yes, by building an office and taking up a square you are limiting what else can be there, but if its a break-even deal, then there is a problem.

Then there is pops adding to sprawl. If you only have a handful of planets, presumably they will be heavily populated, but they still only have 16 slots.

Any way, again, I agree these changes make sense and I can see how it will make game play more interesting, but at the same time I see it increasing the existing divide between tall and wide.
 
Also, Docile would be the next "must have" trait just because it is so much better than anything else.

Well, currently POP growth speed is so absurdly important that you have to take the Rapid Breeder Trait.

The changes outlined in the dec diary suggests to me that Rapid Breeder will become less of a no-brainer. That is a good thing.
 
Loving these changes and where they can go.

Also, ahem, can I perhaps ask for a Queens Hive Mind civic in response to these changes?
 
In a prior version hivemind rulers could get traits. It was super frustrating to get halted development on your ruler. It would gain any exp anymore and you had no way to get rid of your hive ruler. Made me restart the game.

Well then simply exclude this from the list of available traits. Easiest fix ever.

Right now Hiveminds miss out on so many bonuses because they gain 0 traits and have 0 agendas. Playing Hiveminds offers a couple nice tweaks but they also have so many less stats in traditions, rulers, terraforming, pop jobs, ascencions, pop growth, specialist efficiency, energy output, civics that is depressing to play. Especially when anything with Robots keeps getting buffed by Relics and habitability changes.
 
I like the idea of these changes, it might bring a nerf to machine empires for the good.

I have a request though: could you please tell your players if you have any plans on working on a solution to improve your game's performance in the late game? It's getting annoying to many players now and it doesn't concern only bad-pc anymore. I would be happy even if you stopped the development of new features for multiple months, if you decided to work on the stabilization of Stellaris.

I and i'm sure most of the players love having a rich-feature game, especially if it is unique among the others, but be careful not to push too much on performance without optimization.
I used to look forward to new expansions, but how do i keep my hype when i know i can't play on the same save more than 5 hours because it's like playing crysis 3 on a macbook air?

Please developers, make some performance improvements and stop bringing new mechanics. You engine seems struggling already, don't become the new Fallout 76. Save this beautiful game. Make me finish my games like i used to do.
 
I just need this to buy Stellaris:

AI tuning and performance.

I sincerely hope to see that these situations are the focus of the next development diaries.

Mechanics, expansions and everything else can wait for it quietly.


Só me falta isso para comprar Stellaris:

Ajuste da IA e desempenho.

Sinceramente espero ver que estas situações sejam o foco dos próximos diários de desenvolvimento.

Mecânicas, expansões e todo o resto pode esperar por isso tranquilamente.
 
Also, if Admin. Offices won't be restricted then everyone would dedicate a planet to be filled with offices only, to increase adm. cap.
Essentially, it adds mandatory establishment of such planets just to be able to expand and grow. Which is a bad design. You add a necessary consumer goods hog just to grow. It is like a supply depot in Starcraft but if in SC supply depots are used to limit your FAST growth as game is measured by minutes, in Stellaris it is a wasted building.
 
explain to me how driven assimilators should work as tall empires?

*facepalm*

The main sources of coordinator jobs are planet unique (capital buildings and uplink nodes). You would not play tall. You would grab any world you can and try to keep the population per planet low. As soon as you can't get any new sparsly populated worlds to migrate your drones to, you will wreck up the admin cap penalty.
 
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I can't agree with all the comments that don't see machines as "tall". Machines in stellaris are about efficency. Eg. their pops produce more. Staying within your admin cap to not gain penalties and getting increased penalties if you do are exactly in line with the prior design.

If admin cap will be a problem for assimilators and exterminators their civic could simply gain a static bonus to admin cap or they could get a special building/job for admin cap.


I agree that hives currently can't play a game where they actually do settle a lot of planets. A minor step could be to give all hiveminds a passive +20% habitability. This would bring any hive about the 35% habitability threshold the air needs to settle a planet.
 
Not convinced.
It's nice to see Empire Sprawl and Adminsitrative Capacity actually matter and be more interactive.

However in essence it's still just a modifier applied depending on the size of your empire. Despite the mention of "tall" and "wide" gameplay it doesn't really change the way you play. It affects the gameplay, but only by slowing you down (or encouraging you to expand with hiveminds).

This kind of "experimentation" is certainly not what I'm expecting from devs. Those are more like tweaks. I would rather expect to see them experiment with different types of governements with different ways to interact with Empire Sprawl and Administrative Capacity. I don't expect Megacorps, Machine Empire and Feudal Empires to have the same way to see their administrative limits and efficiency. Some examples:
- Megacorps could have a territorial limit AND an administrative limit. This distinction is important because you're supposed to open branches. Having smaller territorial limit would also encourage them even more to not develop into big empires like they usually do anyway.
- If we want Machine empires to feel more centralized, surely they should also benefit from being actually centralized and having a few ultra-developped planets. Why not giving them a handful of super-specialized planets (one of each type, with big bonus and even special districts/buildings), but a limit to the number of specializations? That way, after your, say, 5th colonized planet, you would only have generalist planets without similar bonus.
- Feudal Empires shouldn't really care about administrative capacity or empire sprawl - they should care about the loyalty of their "sectors" and vassals. IMO their sectors should have more autonomy, and behaving more like vassals ; and their vassals should play a more important part in their politics. Maybe they should even have an entirely different kind of "subject" that would mix vassal and sector. They would need to care about the loyalty of their subject, much like the Empire in Dune for instance. Granting planets, but also trade advantages, or hired leaders etc.

Those are just ideas based on some things I've read here and there, but honestly I think it's time to use what's already in the game to develop the gameplay. Many civics don't really alter the gameplay when they should, and many features are still at a basic level. So it's nice to make admcap and empire sprawl more important, but I believe this should interact more with the other features, instead of just being a stronger modifier...