Stellaris Dev Diary #226 - Custodians & Next Steps

[ATerafin22]

I never use the Fleet Manager at all, and I have no trouble upgrading or controlling my fleets. Do they disappear from the outliner as well?

No, the outliner is 100% fine for me.

But any fleet that has disappeared from the Fleet Manger is not upgradeable, even if I merge them with my 1st Fleet.

 

[Blackadder23]

Because a) That's not at all realistic b) it's been in the game since the start. c) "Just remove this mechanic I clearly don't undersrand" is not an argument.

Mod it out if you want.

Sprawl is 100% an abstract game concept. It could be in the game, or it could not be in the game, but realism has nothing to do with it.

And I certainly understand sprawl: it's a welfare handout to so-called "tall" players, to disadvantage people who are actually playing a 4X game properly, instead of screwing around. (The argument there seems to be that Luxembourg and Monaco should be able to compete on the same footing with the United States and China. So much for "realism"!)

 

[Libertine Angel]

Sprawl is 100% an abstract game concept. It could be in the game, or it could not be in the game, but realism has nothing to do with it.

And I certainly understand sprawl: it's a welfare handout to so-called "tall" players, to disadvantage people who are actually playing a 4X game properly, instead of screwing around. (The argument there seems to be that Luxembourg and Monaco should be able to compete on the same footing with the United States and China. So much for "realism"!)

There's no such thing as playing "properly" in a sandbox game, the entire point of Stellaris is player freedom and choice. Real world geopolitics also doesn't apply to fictional sci-fi, in this case it's more apt to say that the Foundation should be able to hold its own against the declining Empire and its successors (which it did, a major point of the first book), or Hutt Space should be able to hold its own against the Galactic Republic (which it did), or Earth against the Covenant (which it did).

 

[Nebbie Zebbie]

Can't you do this already? Can't you (for example) make 30 custom empires, set them all to force spawn, start a game with 15 AI empires, and the game will pick 15 of the ones you set to force spawn? I swear I've seen people talk about doing just that.

You can indeed. I'm currently playing a game where I did this (this is completely vanilla, no mods):

However, there is a multi-year-old unfixed bug that makes it a real pain: You cannot have 2 empires use the same system initializer (other than random). Not as in just no 2 Sols or 2 Denebs...but you can't even have 2 empires use "Random Trinary I" or one will fail to generate. This means most empires have to be set to use the "Random" initializer, which is rather annoying when I want to not get weird things like a trinary starting system for the Romulans.

And yes, I know about how to not have the CoM, but they're a way to get a funny little lost colony in without having to up the number of AI empires in settings.

 

[MrFreake_PDX]

Sprawl is 100% an abstract game concept. It could be in the game, or it could not be in the game, but realism has nothing to do with it.

And I certainly understand sprawl: it's a welfare handout to so-called "tall" players, to disadvantage people who are actually playing a 4X game properly, instead of screwing around. (The argument there seems to be that Luxembourg and Monaco should be able to compete on the same footing with the United States and China. So much for "realism"!)

In my headcanon as a Stellaris player, Spawl represents the infrastructure, transportation investment, and other things required to maintain a large empire. For instance, a single planet that invents a new type of toaster, has a lot less infrastructure and transportation required to transport those toasters to their population, as well as a lot fewer toasters required. A 6 planet empire will need more toasters, needs to invest more in transporting the toasters, there will be more time before everyone gets their updated toaster, etc.

 

[Ferrus Animus]

Sprawl is a clunky anti-snowballing mechanic.
Stellaris has no tall play, there is no way to build up, and what way there are to build compact are usually worse than just spreading out.
Empire Sprawl as a mechanic is the current incarnation of trying to mechanically reign that in (sectors and unity were once intended to do the same but failed due to failures of design). It is not a good or particularly functional mechanic for the same reason the others failed and mainly counts as one among many things we as players have to do, distracting us form the interesting aprts of the game.
Maybe the rework will change that. But it's been 5.5 years now...

 

[Darklight731]

I have seen many people pleased at the work that the Custodian initiative has done, but many others have been complaining about some major problems with the game, like UI scaling for example. I think it is worth pointing out that, just how the developers need to concede in certain points and listen to our comments and demands, so should we.

The developers are not robots that work 24 hours per day, they need to focus on a bunch of problems of their own, both inside, and outside the office. The players don`t deserve to have their pleads completely disregarded by the developers, and neither do the developers deserve to be insulted and hated for every flaw, both big and small that players give them because they don`t like a certain part of the game.

 

[Losttruppen]

However, there is a multi-year-old unfixed bug that makes it a real pain: You cannot have 2 empires use the same system initializer (other than random). Not as in just no 2 Sols or 2 Denebs...but you can't even have 2 empires use "Random Trinary I" or one will fail to generate.

This is a good thing as it allows you to create several "pools" of empires that are mutually exclusive so you can have them always on force spawn and it will randomly choose 1 from the "pool". It's much less hassle and I wont know which combination of enemies I will be facing.

 

[Belonogy]

An interesting nuance is that AI is not able to resist sanctions, for example, after "The Greater Good" resolutions.
I watched the save on their behalf and in the main species they are trying to change the conditions of life, but for some reason they always still remain "Decent Conditions". Sometimes I noticed in the galactic community window that the AI is exempt from sanctions and returns again after a few days. I would also like the AI to give out favors less often and the price of favors was tied to the level of economic and military power of the AI. Not how I bought 10 favors from the strongest empires for 150 Exotic Gases. Then to usurp power in the galactic community ;(

 

[Belonogy]

I also noticed that I cannot change the living standards of all species at once. For some reason, it changes in all, except for the main species. Then they have to be changed manually separately.

 

[Azhcristokos]

I think it is worth pointing out that, just how the developers need to concede in certain points and listen to our comments and demands, so should we.

I agree, and I do like Lem overall (as my earlier comment indicated), but it really sucks that dealing with the GUI desyncs and the bugs with some of the new content is just getting pushed off for another two months. If they address it in the next Custodian patch, it'll be fine since we're not waiting 6 months for a fix that will inevitably come with more issues than not due to some major rework and DLC.

 

[Darklight731]

I agree, and I do like Lem overall (as my earlier comment indicated), but it really sucks that dealing with the GUI desyncs and the bugs with some of the new content is just getting pushed off for another two months. If they address it in the next Custodian patch, it'll be fine since we're not waiting 6 months for a fix that will inevitably come with more issues than not due to some major rework and DLC.

Well to be Fair, I don`t use any mods, the basic UI is alright, and that whole de-syncing problem never happened to me. So I am somewhat biased I am sure.

 

[MrReaper182]

I really like the direction Stellaris' devs are pushing the development of Stellaris. It sounds like a careful, and constructive initiative. I just re-read the Unity & admin cap rework idea and it sounds like a very interesting proposal. I like how open and humble you are about it.

Stellaris definitely have a host of problems, from bad UI for sprawling empires to bad AI for late game, but I hope it can be the best it can be with time and care. A post some time ago by a player said Stellaris was thrown off track by numerous ambitious changes and ought to return to its source. Maybe. But building on that difficult infancy also seems a good idea.

As @Liggi just said, a roadmap on what the devs think they could bring us would be very appreciated.

The UI is great. It's miles better than EU4 UI. Also Unity & admin cap does not need to be worked on, what needs a update is the political side of ruining your empire. If the dexs could improve on that then Stellaris would over take CK2/CK3 as my favourite all time strategy game.

 

[MrReaper182]

Sprawl is a clunky anti-snowballing mechanic.
Stellaris has no tall play, there is no way to build up, and what way there are to build compact are usually worse than just spreading out.
Empire Sprawl as a mechanic is the current incarnation of trying to mechanically reign that in (sectors and unity were once intended to do the same but failed due to failures of design). It is not a good or particularly functional mechanic for the same reason the others failed and mainly counts as one among many things we as players have to do, distracting us form the interesting aprts of the game.
Maybe the rework will change that. But it's been 5.5 years now...

That's because playing tall is stupid in the 23rd century. You need rescores (lots of them) to build a naval capable of fending off attack from a large alien species hell bent on talking whats yours and staying in one solar system, one world or both is never going to get the resources you need. All your doing is just telling stronger alien species that you are easy to conquer. In the 23rd century the number one motto we be "expand or die". If there is a devouring swarm in the Milky May near Earth then if humans play tall when we can leave are solar system in the future then all the human race is doing is dooming future us to extinction.

 

[Arizal]

The UI is great. It's miles better than EU4 UI. Also Unity & admin cap does not need to be worked on, what needs a update is the political side of ruining your empire. If the dexs could improve on that then Stellaris would over take CK2/CK3 as my favourite all time strategy game.

I agree that internal politics should really be improved upon, but what I was aiming at in my post was that the UI didn't work well when it we talk about the late game. The outliner shows countless planets, and yes you could put them in sectors, but they have always been badly managed. Thus you have like 40 planets in your outliner and cannot filter for those which really have a pressing need and those which are fine.

Also, the fleet manager becomes a mess as soon as you annex a vassal or (I think) lose a battle while ships are being created.

 

[Ferrus Animus]

That's because playing tall is stupid in the 23rd century. You need rescores (lots of them) to build a naval capable of fending off attack from a large alien species hell bent on talking whats yours and staying in one solar system, one world or both is never going to get the resources you need. All your doing is just telling stronger alien species that you are easy to conquer. In the 23rd century the number one motto we be "expand or die". If there is a devouring swarm in the Milky May near Earth then if humans play tall when we can leave are solar system in the future then all the human race is doing is dooming future us to extinction.

I mean in game. there is no way to really scale up istead of wide. No way to make your planets better, make your pops more productive or make your fleets better in ways that don't work better with more. Tall ist just less wide and all ways to chagne that are just bad, don't work or jarring pointless penalties so far.

 

[KetlingIRL]

Great update. Lem made me excited to play the game when updates drop again.

I think my two biggest gripes ATM are AI, and unbidden spawn weight. I would love to not have to totally fix AI planets (and allow sector automanagement)... and I need the Scourge achievement but Unbidden spawn every game because AI always researches jumps!

 

[Cat_Fuzz]

Honestly, a public Kanban board that just shows the high level "List" - split out with "Started" "Doing" "Done", with the ability for the community to upvote things in the "List". Allow the developers to add any context / updates (if/as they want too).

QA people submit the list items (probably could automate an import/export) - and every month or set period of time you pick the highest or "fixable" ones. A special column for "Complicated" to shove things over that you just don't have time for right now. Maybe you can commit to taking on 2-3 "Complicated" every period so they do eventually get dealt with.

Those picked issues just get moved to "Started", and every e.g. Week or custom period you update the movement of those items that may have moved to Started -> Doing -> Done.

Don't think would take a lot of time and would be very engaging for most of your community I think ^^

Example below - I'm sure Paradox would find a nice way to brand it and make it look like its part of a Stellaris UI

View attachment 761485

This, I’ve asked for this since 2.0. Would love to see it implemented and get a sense of what devs are aware of and how it’s progressing.

The bug reporting from day 1 has been a bit of a black box, where you don’t know if issues that are reported actually are even getting attention. This would go some way to solve it.

 

[Calvax]

Sprawl is 100% an abstract game concept. It could be in the game, or it could not be in the game, but realism has nothing to do with it.

And I certainly understand sprawl: it's a welfare handout to so-called "tall" players, to disadvantage people who are actually playing a 4X game properly, instead of screwing around. (The argument there seems to be that Luxembourg and Monaco should be able to compete on the same footing with the United States and China. So much for "realism"!)

What sprawl should represent is the rising costs of coordinating large groups which are disproportionate to small groups. As the number of actors within an organisation grows the number of communication channels needed to "keep them on the same page" grows exponentially. This combinatorial explosion means you have to use different organisational structures to maintain productivity, but you're always at the risk of certain parts of the organisation performing redundant or even conflicting work, as well as facing the issue of good ideas struggling to propagate. At a cultural level larger societies suffer from an issue that a greater number of subcultures and political movements can arise, this poses a significant challenge for governing bodies as increasingly you'll always be pissing someone off.

Admin cap in stellaris is seemingly going to change to be a unity cost in the future. This would more appropriately mimic some of the issues large organisations face. Hopefully this will also tie in to some kind of touch up to internal politics, as large empires face increasingly discontent (and large) factions that eventually either revolt or secede.

 

[Libertine Angel]

That's because playing tall is stupid in the 23rd century. You need rescores (lots of them) to build a naval capable of fending off attack from a large alien species hell bent on talking whats yours and staying in one solar system, one world or both is never going to get the resources you need. All your doing is just telling stronger alien species that you are easy to conquer. In the 23rd century the number one motto we be "expand or die". If there is a devouring swarm in the Milky May near Earth then if humans play tall when we can leave are solar system in the future then all the human race is doing is dooming future us to extinction.

I disagree, again there are plenty of examples throughout sci-fi of civilisations and cultures surviving and thriving in their own small bubbles of territory, successfully fending off much larger hostile powers, and the entire concept of Stellaris is a sci-fi sandbox letting the player engage with whatever tropes and ideas they like. Some may be harder than others, obviously, but if playing wide and aggressive was the only way to enjoy the game it would just be another space-themed map painter.